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Most destructive class in school history - who ya got?
- Thread starter TheSwagger1
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2004 wins going away. 2008 class at least had some guys that were legit playmaker. 2004 had no one. Straight *****.
BigDikCane
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**** that 2004 class was terrible...
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Not all about just player comparisons when gauging 'destructive'. Attitudes, severing ties at high schools, sanctions, etc...
You hit the nail on the head.
At this level, it ain't just the recruiting.
It is the EVALUATION
I have to bring USC into this discussion, because it is what I know, and there are some correlations
When Pete Carroll took over at USC the most important thing he did, IMO, was to ask Ed Orgeron to stay on and run recruiting.
Ed is a FANTASTIC pure recruiter. You guys know this. he is one of a kind. Just as a person.
But what he really is, OVER that, is he is a great EVALUATOR of talent.
Perfect example of that is Mike Patterson. Ed loved him but Hackett refused to give him an offer. He said he was too short and too light. Ed KNEW what he could be, but Hackett would not let him give him an offer, and Mike was a Trojan Die Hard.
When Pete Carroll first came in, Orgeron went to him and told him about Patterson.
Pete said, Get Him.
Mike Patterson was an unblockable force of nature at USC and along with the emergence of Justin Fargas at RB and Mike Williams at WR he was most responsible for the run that USC started in 2002 and didn't really end until 2009.
Ed was all about what he saw on film, not what the Ranking services said. Lane Kiffin was almost as good. He was the one who saw the potential in Mike Williams, who was like the 67th ranked WR and Florida only wanted as a Safety. Say what you will about his Pro career, but he had as good a Freshman and Sophomore seasons as had ever been seen in CFB.
After those two left, USC and Pete Carroll's talent evaluation went south. He got involved in a Battle every year with Urban Meyer to win the Number 1 class battle.
The proof is in the pudding. Both schools have suffered because of it.
Florida is abysmal and in a downhill Spiral
USC WOULD have been if Orgeron and Kiffin hadn't come back.
We attained a Top 5 ranking at the end of this year, mostly due to the youngsters they have brought in the last two years. The 2010 class WAS mostly Pete's but even a kid like Nickell Robey, who came with them has made a terrific impact at USC as did Hayes Pullard, another late addition
A friend of mine was at a HS game a few months ago and he sat next to Ed Orgeron. They got on the subject of Nick Saban, and my friend offered the opinion that right now, Saban was the best recruiter in CFB
Ed O said, He probably is, but that isn't the biggest factor. he is the best Talent Evaluator in CFB right now. He can watch a kid play in HS and KNOW, he is going to be a MONSTER, especially on defense.
I guess you guys are just going to have to trust Al Golden. Trust that he is more about talent that will transfer to the college level than he is about Number of stars.
My impression of him is that he is a LOT like Saban and Ogre.
The discipline part also. He doesn't seem like he is messing around. At ALL
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But wasn't Shannon the one who was trying to win with that 2004 class as the Cornerstone of his team?
MiamiNites
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yep. it's alot worse than what golden had to work with. Not even close really.
umcane4life
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that 2004 class was pure garbage
canadianhurricane
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Thanks. I enjoyed reading that!
What ever happened to Bobby Washington?? I heard Larry Bluestein mention him as one of the best RB's in dade he had ever seen on WQAM...
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The three people responsible for those classes make me sick.
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blemblam -
Nice post. Shows how important talent evaluation is to the success of a team.
And a question for you: How much of USC's success was due to evaluation and how much was due to player development?
Nice post. Shows how important talent evaluation is to the success of a team.
And a question for you: How much of USC's success was due to evaluation and how much was due to player development?
That is a great question. I think I kind of answered it in my previous post. I think great recruiting can be made to be almost unbeatable when it is paired with great talent evaluation and player development.
I think all this early commitment stuff has KILLED Talent Evaluation to a certain extent.
I was with a couple of friends of mine after a USC practice one day, maybe 2007 and Pete Carroll came over to us as he was walking out and started talking to us.
I made some kind of remark about how tough it must be to be able to project how a 17 year old kid is going to do as a College Soph or Junior.
I also said something about early commits and how it seemed that Mack Brown at Texas was the one pushing it.
Pete said " Yes, it is Mack now, but it was Joe Paterno who started it and it KILLED that program. "
He HATED it, with a few exceptions. A Carson Palmer or a Reggie Bush or a Matt Barkley are no brainers.
But overall, he really hated it. If he had his way, he wouldn't have taken many commitments before say midway through a kids senior season. And he would have wanted to see Junior Film, Senior Film AND see the kid play live and in person.
But back to your question, I think that early evaluation on kids like Patterson and BMW and Ryan Kalil and Lofa Tatupu were CRITICAL in USC's rise to the top in CFB after a 20 year absence.
After that, it got easier to recruit, but it also got harder to evaluate once Ogre and Kiffin left.
We started missing more than hitting. For every Brian Cushing or Dwayne Jarrett there were Antwine Perez' and Vidal Hazelton. Kids who were decent players, but not even close to the hype.
Pete told the staff to go OOS and only offer kids who they could convince him were going to be 1st or 2nd round draft picks. And character became less of a priority IMO.
That is why I am very pleased that the current staff seems to be evaluating EVRYTHING about a player, because we have precious few rides to give out, and we just can't afford to miss on very many.
Go back and look at some of our classes starting in 2006 or so. It is stunning how many kids either didn't get in, didn't stay or didn't make an impact.
Then look at the last two classes and it is a big difference IMO, in the quality of player and in character.
But USC is no different than Miami. The topic of this thread, and the example used, is by far the clearest example of what I am talking about.
I guess my point is that USC had a few classes like that too, but with some Diamonds mixed in.
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The 2004 class WAS Shannon's as much as it was Coker's. Shannon get's a pass for having to win with that 2004 class, that HE helped recruit? :O
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