Modern defenses 2-4-5 vs 4-2-5 of Miami vs Tite Front

[252cane]

That's cool but the 2-4-5 looks in this scheme would be just standing up the DEs.

 

[Paranos]

@Lance Roffers and @DMoney

I think a breakdown of Miami's Havoc rate overall and front 7 rate vs La Tech's Havoc Rates would be a good read to predict potentially how effective Blake Baker could be in running Miami's defense. As well including which UM defensive schemes work best 4-2-5 vs 2-4-5 in comparison to what LA Tech ran 4-2-5 vs 3-3-5, etc.

In 2018 Miami was # 1 in overall and front 7 havoc rates, but 20th on DB Havoc rate.
Where as La Tech was 26th overall, 62nd in front 7, and 10th in DB havoc havoc rates.

For reference

2018 COLLEGE FOOTBALL DEFENSIVE S/P+ RATINGS | Football Outsiders

S&P+ defensive ratings for 2018.

www.footballoutsiders.com

Go Canes

 

[TruCane81]

Being creative with these type fronts is the only shot we have to dethrone Clemson.

I think we can confuse Lawrence with unconventional personel groupings. Lots of mixing of nickel, dime, and quarters while moving guys around.

3 cbs and 3 or 4 safeties on the field at the same time. Putting ends on the interior and lbs and safeties on the edge. Put them in position where it is hard to distinguish rushers from coverage.

I know people think Lawrence is the second coming and I think he is amazing too, but he can be had with creativity and pressure.

I am more concerned with Etienne. When we win the Coastal, it is of the ABSOLUTE, utmost importance to put Clemson in passing downs.

I like our chances to shock the world for the acc title with the type of pass rush we have. We have to play the receivers aggressively and make Lawrence come off his first read and scramble. At the same time, we need to have him thinking about who is rushing and who is covering. Throw the kitchen sink at him. Not necessarily blitzing a lot, but putting guys in unexpected places and changing the coverage like Beyonce’s clothes at a concert.

Call me crazy, but I am calling it now. Miami will be 2019 ACC Champions. I know we can have some bad breaks and go 9-4. I don’t care as long as the team plays hard and the game plans are competent. No need for the banners if I’m wrong.

Just see something really special this year. A 2000 like season. It could just as easily be a 1999 season. I think the defense is roughly the same and have utmost confidence in Enos. If the whoever starts at qb is above average protecting the ball, we ******.

Clemson will let down. Wouldn’t be shocked if Syracuse surprises for the Atlantic division. Replacing Dungey won’t be easy though.

Lawrence will have amazing games. He will look like a true sophomore at times too.

I don’t care how they looked against Bama. Those guys are springing leaks from the crushing weight of Saban’s tyranny.

Syracuse beat them in 2017. In 2018, they knocked Lawrence out and Etienne had to play Superman just to survive at home. Clemson wanted get back and still struggled.

A competently coached Miami team can do the same and more.

 

[yeaman]

Really cool article. I Like how they explained one of the advantages to the tite front is that it eliminates the B gap run/ pass dilemma for the Will backer

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Hope we get this version of #53 again.

 

[dukemv]

Seemed like defense got torn up in zone last year... See that happening w/ these schemes again?

 

[TruCane81]

Hope we get this version of #53 again.

We will.

Defense will be mean.

 

[TruCane81]

Seemed like defense got torn up in zone last year... See that happening w/ these schemes again?

Depends on the corners development. I think our guys are better in man and that should be our base. Throwing in disguised zones will do more to add uncertainty for qbs, and make the pass rush that much more devastating.

As long as we don’t give free and wide open releases to interior receivers, we will be ok.

Everybody hits a sideline pass once in a while, just have to make them earn it and not let scrubs play like Joe Montana from over blitzing.

 

[TruCane81]

That's cool but the 2-4-5 looks in this scheme would be just standing up the DEs.

I would like to see lbs and sometimes safeties in this role in passing situations.

Keep the qb way off balance.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Defense nowadays have tonnes of adjustment pre-snap, thus I hate when people say 2-4-5 or 4-3, etc.
Realistically its either an even or odd from (i.e., 4 or 3 down linemen) and all other players move around the field based on offensive formation.
Defenses don't have a choice based on the plethora of systems out there.

Watch the CFL, all this stuff has been going on for years and years. I personally have been in it and coached it.
Pretty innovative stuff up here.

Don't know about the CFL, but the 2-4-5 is nothing new. What they call the 2-4-5 now, is nothing more than a variant of what they used to call the Split 4-4.

So the 2-4-5 is a member of the 8 man front families (3-3-5,3-5-3,4-4,4-2-5,etc.), not the 4-3, 7 man front families, like the author suggests.

 

[Trafficante]

Just like the spread has bled over to the NFL I expect these defenses to do the same since they are tailor made to counter the spread. Teams like the Ravens and Steelers already run a very multiple defense.

I hope you now understand why Manny hired Enos. Philosophically it was never an argument whether to run a Pro or Spread offense. It was about hiring an OC that could best utilize all of the advantages that modern offenses have at their disposal. When a pro offense is able to effectively implement Spread concepts, the end result is what the KC-Chiefs or LA-Rams accomplished last yr.

 

[Paranos]

Don't know about the CFL, but the 2-4-5 is nothing new. What they call the 2-4-5 now, is nothing more than a variant of what they used to call the Split 4-4.

So the 2-4-5 is a member of the 8 man front families (3-3-5,3-5-3,4-4,4-2-5,etc.), not the 4-3, 7 man front families, like the author suggests.

Going back to 2000 when Charlie Strong was at USCe and developed the 3-3-5 defense and psycho front blitz packages. ( which he killed UM with in the Russell Athletic bowl when we played U of L)

» The Birth of the 3-3-5 Defense

grantland.com

Go Canes

 

[Arehel]

Baker running the 2 - 4 - 5 at La Tech
View attachment 87986

Again, this is a 40 front with two stand up ends.
It's only 42 because the Sam has to expand to the 3rd rec, but there are still 3 LBs on the field, or brought in a bigger DB to replace. The responsibilities would be the exact same regardless of the moniker name of position.

 

[RedPill Stepdad]

Again, this is a 40 front with two stand up ends.
It's only 42 because the Sam has to expand to the 3rd rec, but there are still 3 LBs on the field, or brought in a bigger DB to replace. The responsibilities would be the exact same regardless of the moniker name of position.

In today's football that's the 2-4-5. U can call it whatever u want, I'll call it the 2-4-5.

 

[Coach Macho]

4-3...
4-2-5...
2-4-5...

None of that stuff matters. It's just personnel groupings.
At the end of the day you're either an Even front or an Odd front...then what coverage you're playing behind it becomes more important.

You can take your DE's off the field, put 2 LB's on the edge and call it a '2-4-5' but at the end of the day you're still just an Even front, and that's how the offense is going to identify you.

One thing will never change...
The best defenses in football are SIMPLE and SOUND regardless of what personnel is on the field.

 

[Arehel]

In today's football that's the 2-4-5. U can call it whatever u want, I'll call it the 2-4-5.

Nope.
A competent coach would never say what you said.
Glad we got Baker and Diaz running the show not fans!

 

[Arehel]

4-3...
4-2-5...
2-4-5...

None of that stuff matters. It's just personnel groupings.
At the end of the day you're either an Even front or an Odd front...then what coverage you're playing behind it becomes more important.

You can take your DE's off the field, put 2 LB's on the edge and call it a '2-4-5' but at the end of the day you're still just an Even front, and that's how the offense is going to identify you.

One thing will never change...
The best defenses in football are SIMPLE and SOUND regardless of what personnel is on the field.

See a Coachs eye.
We can probabaly chat until sunrise about ball and always on the same page.

 

[RedPill Stepdad]

Nope.
A competent coach would never say what you said.
Glad we got Baker and Diaz running the show not fans!

Again, u can go by whatever old terminology u want. I'll go by what we call it in today's football.

 

[Arehel]

Again, u can go by whatever old terminology u want. I'll go by what we call it in today's football.

Not old terminology at all, this is what is currently being used in NFL NCAA film rooms. I've been in those rooms and I'm 33.

Not sure why you're arguing.

 

[Paranos]

Nope.
A competent coach would never say what you said.
Glad we got Baker and Diaz running the show not fans!

Should be interesting when comparing common opponents from 2018