McCloud

Gatorhater

All-American
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
17,234
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.
Old school Canes did not just start Freshmen just because of talent. You played ST and waited your turn. JJ set a $$$ focus and that meant you left older guys with NFL potential play to improve draft status. It was part and partial to coming back after graduation. The work ethic was such that we are not talking about merely rewarding upper class men for just being there. Guy who just could play never saw the field sometimes until last game of senior year. You would see a clean brand new uni run out on the field and wonder who the hell is that. So it was merit based but with everyone's $$ interest taken into consideration. Not saying anything like that would work today but it was part of the culture like the freshmen getting heads shaved.
 

Ironmanfootball

Recruit
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
366
Well, Etienne stayed. There were a couple 1st rounders that stayed at Clemson. Yet we have udfas leaving early.

in the case of McCloud, the two guys ahead of you were hearing they were day 2 draft picks. He wasn’t going to see enough time ahead of them so he chose to come back. He obviously thinks he can play so he wanted to come back. Diaz was ok with it, it just hasn’t worked out great. But Diaz did his due diligence of allowing him the opportunity to be a leader and get PT. But he’s done nothing with it and he’s obviously being phased out.
Clemson is a massive culture exception to every rule about college football. I'm assuming the insurance policies are good in SC. The culture at Miami is 5-6 years from being able to get the results of Clemson. Starts with best over most talented, and with top down discipline
 

305to954

All American
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
11,829
I think this has little to do about anything that’s been mentioned. 44 and 53 got the starting nod for the simple fact they know the calls, can get the front 7 aligned at both levels and can communicate it better then the young guys who have may more athletic ability (6) and have may better natural instincts(11,18 or whoever) coaches will always, I repeat always play the guy they trust to make the fewest mental errors. As the szn progresses flag and 6 will eat into the snap count because they will have a better grasp of the defense. It’s as simple as that. As brooks, Flagg, Huff, TAC get more quality reps in practice you will see them more and more
 

troycbullock

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
760
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.
A captain doesn’t have to be a starter to lead. A captain simply needs to be a leader to lead. I have been part of and have seen teams name captains who were not starters. If McCloud is a true leader, people will follow him whether he starts or not. I believe Diaz runs the risk of creating more of an issue if he continues to play McCloud based on his play. Imagine being in a huddle with McCloud as a captain, and him trying to motivate and encourage his teammates while he is continuously missing his assignments as well as tackles. His leadership would be much more effective if he were offering motivation and encouragement from the sidelines.
 

D-anon

Conference All American
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
609
I think this has little to do about anything that’s been mentioned. 44 and 53 got the starting nod for the simple fact they know the calls, can get the front 7 aligned at both levels and can communicate it better then the young guys who have may more athletic ability (6) and have may better natural instincts(11,18 or whoever) coaches will always, I repeat always play the guy they trust to make the fewest mental errors. As the szn progresses flag and 6 will eat into the snap count because they will have a better grasp of the defense. It’s as simple as that. As brooks, Flagg, Huff, TAC get more quality reps in practice you will see them more and more

Flagg knows the calls as well and he is able to process and attack faster than Jennings. Brooks is a a huge upgrade over McCloud, both athletically and as far as understanding the defense.

Manny sees everything we are seeing. The snap counts will tell the story. Jennings and McCloud will continue to start, but Brooks and Flagg will play more
 

KingB02

Sophomore
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
1,878
He's not a DE though. He's just like Chickillo. He needs to be a strong side 3-4 LB where all he does is rush or play the run.
He was a D End in HS is what I said and he should have been one here. 6’2 230 coming in and is at nearly 240 now. He weighs more than Roche lol. He could’ve easily gotten to 250 and be a d end. He doesn’t have the LB instincts and speed and quickness
 

No_Fly_Zone

Not a scientist or engineer
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
4,677
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.

Even assuming that's what Manny is thinking, I respectfully disagree with the approach.

Players respect honesty and fairness. And if we were being honest and fair, McCloud would not be starting. Based purely on performance this season, he's just not one of our two best LBs.

As far as McCloud convincing anyone to stay for another year, I expect that will fall on deaf ears. A guy like Bubba will be making a choice between getting drafted into the NFL or playing another season at the U. McCloud's choice was come back to the U or utilize his UM degree to do something other than football.

Hell, Knowles was a fifth year senior who came back (no choice) to play and start several games for Miami last season. Didn't see him convince Bandy (or anybody else) to stick around.
 

shwarma5

Recruit
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
258
Reasonable take. Snap counts moving forward will tell us if its the right take. Film builds up, and so does BS
 

Canesbro31

Freshman
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
304
Other way to put it, if Flagg is clearly the best option at MLB and you play the older guy what message does that send to recruits? If I’m the linebacker coach I’m starting Flagg and Steed and having Austin cave and Huff back them up and see how they play cuz clearly McCloud Jennings and Brooks ain’t it.
 

305to954

All American
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
11,829
Flagg knows the calls as well and he is able to process and attack faster than Jennings. Brooks is a a huge upgrade over McCloud, both athletically and as far as understanding the defense.

Manny sees everything we are seeing. The snap counts will tell the story. Jennings and McCloud will continue to start, but Brooks and Flagg will play more
I’m saying at the beginning of the szn..I highly doubt a kid with no spring, short fall camp knows the calls and can make them as seem less as a 5 the year guy or Else I’m sure said player would be starting. manny started a True fresh mike with no problem. Difference is shaq had a whole spring and fall from the jump in 2016
 

JAYBLAZE

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
1,047
3ADCAA2C-77B6-465A-8D9F-4EED72CD10D9.jpeg

Zach McCloud LB
 

rok

Great Poster
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
19,645
Brooks and Flagg entered the game almost immediately the last couple weeks so it's just a matter of time before snaps are 60/40 in favor of the youths. What's equally telling is that in our 3rd down package, Brooks and Carter are playing LB since week 1 and they keep McCloud off the field.

DL Roche/Silvera/Phillips
LB Carter/Brooks/Frierson
DB Blades/Bolden/Hall/Couch/Ivey
 

kyle_schick

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
434
Decent point for sure, but this will send the wrong message to the team. It says that it doesn't matter how good you are, you aren't going to start over the upperclassmen who stick around because they cant get drafted.

This will push the talented underclassmen out. Foster a culture of competition, and you'll keep the players around. They wont mind staying for their 4th or 5th year if they know they have a legit shot.
 

VASoulCane

Freshman
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
535
He was a D End in HS is what I said and he should have been one here. 6’2 230 coming in and is at nearly 240 now. He weighs more than Roche lol. He could’ve easily gotten to 250 and be a d end. He doesn’t have the LB instincts and speed and quickness
Chickillo doesn't have LB instincts, speed and quickness either. It's just the best suited position for him to play given his size and his ability. McCloud doesn't have the size nor speed to play DE here, or anyplace on the power 5 honestly. 3-4 SLB or plug LB is best for him if he wants to play. Luckily because of COVID, it may be in his best interest to transfer to a school running a base 3-4 if they still exist at the college level.
 

swampcougar1

sophomore
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
2,464
I can see McCloud coming back next season working on a Masters. Think he probably realizes he will not be drafted. He may not be a great player but I think Canes are in his blood.
 

Jassid82

Senior
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
7,203
Two things..

1) This could definitely be a "Dyral McMillan starting over true freshmen Edgerrin James back in the day, game after game, when everyone knew EJ was playing WAY better" situation. My Butch Davis fanatics have to respect that comparison.

2) All the posters saying "play the best players"...This isnt a "Scott Patchan starting over Greg Rousseau" situation. Flagg and Brooks have been okay but neither have played so great that its obvious McCloud needs to sit. This decision isnt cut and dry.

For now, I am okay with McCloud starting until someone else makes it absolutely clear they are the better option.
 

305to954

All American
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
11,829
Brooks and Flagg entered the game almost immediately the last couple weeks so it's just a matter of time before snaps are 60/40 in favor of the youths. What's equally telling is that in our 3rd down package, Brooks and Carter are playing LB since week 1 and they keep McCloud off the field.

DL Roche/Silvera/Phillips
LB Carter/Brooks/Frierson
DB Blades/Bolden/Hall/Couch/Ivey
We’ve had carter in the box in 3rd down for the last 2 szns..always kept 1 true LB on the field 3rd n longs tho
 
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