McCloud

D-anon

Conference All American
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
610
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.
 

Page305

Senior
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
3,940
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.
I will admit I hadn't seen it that way.... And this does make sense.
 

chrisRMNU

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,422
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.
Yea, it's a solid point. These coaching decisions aren't made in a vacuum like we all think.
 

Canemang

Senior
Banned
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
6,487
Play the best players, regardless of the situation. Great, he came back for a 5th year, was given a starting position and has proceeded to sh*t the bed.

If players want guaranteed starting positions regardless of how they’re playing and the trade off is them returning for a 4th/5th year, then see ya.
 

Zombie-Cane

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
846
Meh, I can see it both ways, but let's not think we did him some HUGE favor by bringing him back. Where else was he going? He sure as hell wasn't going pro.
I feel like if we want to win, and win consistently, then we must play the best players, no matter what the circumstances are.
 

bocacane

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
689
Something that crossed my mind in regards to McCloud and his starting role makes me think that this decision by Manny to continue to play him was not made irrationally, that the long term benefits outweighed the short term costs. Now here me out.

The question I pose to the board is this; How does it look to the locker room if you benched a team captain who returned to school for his senior season?

We complain about our juniors turning pro when it is obvious that they should come back for their senior seasons. We all see that McCloud is bad, **** the coaches see it as well. But what potential impact does benching McCloud now have on players who are draft eligible, players like Gurvan Hall, Gilbert Frierson, and Nesta Silvera.

I believe Manny and the coaches have to be delicate in how they approach this situation. McCloud won’t be benched, neither will Jennings. What I believe will happen is, Brooks and Flagg will continue to split reps with them. The coaches, now armed with a plethora of recent draft fails, and Zach McCloud’s senior year starting role as examples to help convince those juniors who need to, stay for their senior seasons.

Manny always talks about culture and it is important that the culture is set by the head coach. By keeping McCloud as a starter, yet splitting the reps, he is able to preach loyalty and that the best players will play.

It is a balancing act that can potentially pay off down the line. I believe that is what Manny is betting on.

Come on... do you think Nick Saban would play a guy to not hurt his feelings or even consider the locker room view?!?!? Is McCloud the best option to win a game... if yes, play him... othewise SIT HIS ASS. This is big boy football. Play to win.
 

troyskiles

[]_[] Forever
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
2,135
Op, I get your point, but most players that could go pro and come back for their senior (5th) year get better. Fact is McCloud hasn't and younger guys pasted him up for playing time. If he is a team player, he should understand that he should sit more than play.
 

astabooty

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
307
Meh, I can see it both ways, but let's not think we did him some HUGE favor by bringing him back. Where else was he going? He sure as hell wasn't going pro.
I feel like if we want to win, and win consistently, then we must play the best players, no matter what the circumstances are.
Was he the one who asked McCloud to redshirt though? Not many players voluntarily take a redshirt after their freshman year.
 

frostycane

Junior
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
2,331
I completely agree OP, I think its why Manny tries to stick with the older guys, especially Grad transfers. To create a culture that makes guys want to come back or come here for their last year and not fear losing a spot for a bad game or two.

The issue is McCloud has never really flashed elite football skills. The good news is he is being phased out. I personally am super done with him, as I see way too many plays being given up due to his lack of football skills. I watched the condensed game, there was one play where the ball was hiked, passed and caught before he came out of his stance, just stood there flat footed. I am not sure what that is about, but he did it all game. Very slow in his reads and reactions, and the one time he went was the play action to the TE for the TD. I actually think teams are targeting him, when he's on the field, they either pass in his direction, or hit him with play action/misdirection and they get him pretty much every time!

He's a Cane, and for that I will always respect him. But his time has come and gone. I doubt he will not even get an invite to an NFL camp, get your degree Zach your headed to the workforce. We appreciate you.
 

BS85

Recruit
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Messages
4,735
Was he the one who asked McCloud to redshirt though? Not many players voluntarily take a redshirt after their freshman year.
McCloud asked to redshirt if I remember correctly. They should have told him no. He's a a horrendous player. The worst starter on the team. It's insane that he even plays at this point, let alone starts. Manny keeps talking about culture but crap like this will destroy the culture. The team knows who can play and who can't and kids will start transferring if the coaches continue to play old, shitty players.
 

Ironmanfootball

Recruit
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
370
I completely agree OP, I think its why Manny tries to stick with the older guys, especially Grad transfers. To create a culture that makes guys want to come back or come here for their last year and not fear losing a spot for a bad game or two.

The issue is McCloud has never really flashed elite football skills. The good news is he is being phased out. I personally am super done with him, as I see way too many plays being given up due to his lack of football skills. I watched the condensed game, there was one play where the ball was hiked, passed and caught before he came out of his stance, just stood there flat footed. I am not sure what that is about, but he did it all game. Very slow in his reads and reactions, and the one time he went was the play action to the TE for the TD. I actually think teams are targeting him, when he's on the field, they either pass in his direction, or hit him with play action/misdirection and they get him pretty much every time!

He's a Cane, and for that I will always respect him. But his time has come and gone. I doubt he will not even get an invite to an NFL camp, get your degree Zach your headed to the workforce. We appreciate you.
DIaz needs to create a culture that the best (not most talented, the best fit for program culture that also have ACC talent) players play. You want five-stars to sign? They have to know they're going to play early and often. You don't really want seniors to stay, that means they've more than likely (exceptions to every rule) sucked so far. You want juniors to stay? Prove that you can actually develop them for the NFL (position coaching, S&C). If guys don't see themselves getting better in your development program, why stay?
 

305407cane

All ACC
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
6,816
Well then that is just dumb. Play the best we got. Don’t care who it is. If you’re not good enough to play sit your butt on the bench. Saban or dabo or really any coach worth a **** would do this. Now if the argument is that he’s our best we have right now then ok. But that is also really damning
 

D-anon

Conference All American
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
610
His reduced snaps is already occurring. He's a smart kid from a great family and has used this opportunity to maximize his education and football knowledge.

This passing of the torch will happen quietly and without issue imo.

I agree with this. I think it also shows the locker room that the culture will reward loyalty but that talent and production matter as well.
 

orange&green84

All-ACC
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
14,292
OP makes sense. Having said that, this worked out for McCloud if we're being honest. He got to red-shirt and gain another year of eligibility (potentially two if he decides to stay since this season doesn't count against eligilbility). But let's be brutally honest here - it's not like he put NFL dreams and opportunity on hold. I like McCloud, but I seriously doubt he's playing at the next level.
 
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