Off-Topic Mass killings

[JD08]

I remodel an apartment Bldg and they want me to have like 37 exits to meet the fire code, and now we are going to 1 door at schools?!

The schools still has 37 emergency exits. Just one entrance. Like most courthouses.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Not necessarily disagreeing but I would be interested to see those stats.

The stats that say people with families end up worse than single families in the hood? There are none because its not really something you can track. I was just stating anecdotes and I was not saying "your better off with a single parent than multiple parents". I was just saying there is not much of a difference between the 2 when your poor.

 

[CFLCane]

My middle school had a single point of entry in the 70's. It's not a big deal and Paul Blart is a trained LEO.

Every school i attended was an open campus. Some of the larger buildings within the campus might be 2-3 doors only for access. But most fl schools i see are littered with trailers too because of overcrowding. Spending billions of dollars to retrofit schools instead of improving education is another very american thing to do.

FWIW, my kids' elementary schools was designed like this (inside the building - outside is a different story). Single point of entry with two sets of locked doors and you had to go through the main office to go into the school. Side doors are all locked from the inside. My kids' middle school and even HS are similarly setup (with a couple points of entry but locked from the inside. Private schools, imo, have more gaps from what I've seen.

 

[We the Boss]

BREAKING: Mother trying to save children at Uvalde was handcuffed by federal marshals

“The police were doing nothing. They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere,” the mother of two said.

thepostmillennial.com

Ugh

 

[AUcane]

Every school i attended was an open campus. Some of the larger buildings within the campus might be 2-3 doors only for access. But most fl schools i see are littered with trailers too because of overcrowding. Spending billions of dollars to retrofit schools instead of education is another very american thing to do.

I went to private schools in Miami and I think all of them were pretty open.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Cops used to stand around a lot less and do proactive community policing. Then the police became the enemy of the people, which led the reactive policing only.

I'll say one thing for sure though. I was never in a watch briefing were we all said "let's go out there and harass people and violate their civil liberties."

And we thank you for that. The less proactive policing you do the better. The less time you spend in our communities the better off we will all be.

Of course they never said that. Politicians don't have official meetings where they say "lets go ***** over the average American" either, but then they go out and do it anyway.

 

[We the Boss]

And we thank you for that. The less proactive policing you do the better. The less time you spend in our communities the better off we will all be.

Of course they never said that. Politicians don't have official meetings where they say "lets go ***** over the average American" either, but then they go out and do it anyway.

Murder rates say this is false.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Murder rates say this is false.

Murder rates are far from the most important factor in regards to bettering a community. Not to mention you don't have any long term data backing that up, since these poor communities haven't been left alone long enough to actually have any sort of reasonable study done.

 

[Mikeiavelli]

BREAKING: Mother trying to save children at Uvalde was handcuffed by federal marshals

“The police were doing nothing. They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere,” the mother of two said.

thepostmillennial.com

Ugh

It's a really weird situation. I understand the police trying to maintain order at the scene, but I have no idea why the police were not entering the building immediately. It doesn't make sense. I understand, the most, why the parents were rushing into the building. The response of the police really makes no sense and I want to know what their reasons were for not making an immediate entry.

I am hoping this was not a breakdown between local and federal law enforcement because it seems like there were lots of each on the scene.

 

[Mikeiavelli]

And we thank you for that. The less proactive policing you do the better. The less time you spend in our communities the better off we will all be.

Of course they never said that. Politicians don't have official meetings where they say "lets go ***** over the average American" either, but then they go out and do it anyway.

Alright well you have a deep hatred of the police it seems and nothing will change that so arguing with you about this is pointless.

But you are wrong about community policing. High crime areas experience less crime when community policing is used, and local law abiding citizens of EVERY socioeconomic background appreciate that.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Alright well you have a deep hatred of the police it seems and nothing will change that so arguing with you about this is pointless.

But you are wrong about community policing. High crime areas experience less crime when community policing is used, and local law abiding citizens of EVERY socioeconomic background appreciate that.

I don't have a hatred for policing. I don't like people that abuse others. There just happens to be crossover.

You are 100% wrong. I am a law abiding citizen and I have been in every socioeconomic level and at no point have the majority of my black neighbors appreciated your presence in our community. Most of the "crime" that you prevent doesn't even effect the average person living in our communities. A gang member killing another gang member or someone selling drugs, is not effecting me. Me getting arrested because I look like a drug dealer or getting beat up for "resisting" does effect me.

 

[We the Boss]

The stats that say people with families end up worse than single families in the hood? There are none because its not really something you can track. I was just stating anecdotes and I was not saying "your better off with a single parent than multiple parents". I was just saying there is not much of a difference between the 2 when your poor.

Again this is wrong and it’s tracked. Significant work has been done and regardless of race, people who:

1) graduate high school
2) don’t have kids out of wedlock
And this the one people will really hate
3) go to church

All out perform the outcomes of folks who don’t.

Charles Murray, who’s a lightning rod, wrote a book geared at white folks and found the data supports the above. He concluded that the data says this is true across all groups in the US.

No one likes to talk about these facts, but we all know it’s true.

 

[Garnacho]

Story seems to change every press conference.

 

[AUcane]

It's a really weird situation. I understand the police trying to maintain order at the scene, but I have no idea why the police were not entering the building immediately. It doesn't make sense. I understand, the most, why the parents were rushing into the building. The response of the police really makes no sense and I want to know what their reasons were for not making an immediate entry.

I am hoping this was not a breakdown between local and federal law enforcement because it seems like there were lots of each on the scene.

I agree. It's weird and counter intuitive all around. My guess is that they were following protocol (which makes no sense b/c that wasn't protocol).

Must have been incredibly frustrating for the parents.

 

[mr.h]

How many teachers were armed in that school?

It wouldn’t have made a difference. An assault rifle can kill 30 people in 30 seconds…
This kid wasn’t old enough to drink, rent a car and whatever, but he could buy 2 AR-15’s and had issues.

 

[JD08]

Every school i attended was an open campus. Some of the larger buildings within the campus might be 2-3 doors only for access. But most fl schools i see are littered with trailers too because of overcrowding. Spending billions of dollars to retrofit schools instead of improving education is another very american thing to do.

They've had portables since I went to school and the old high school campus was very open. With all the recent growth, I'd expect more trailers, not less.

With all the stupid things politicians find to spend money on, I think the can spare a few bucks for school safety.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Again this is wrong and it’s tracked. Significant work has been done and regardless of race, people who:

1) graduate high school
2) don’t have kids out of wedlock
And this the one people will really hate
3) go to church

All out perform the outcomes of folks who don’t.

Charles Murray, who’s a lightning rod, wrote a book geared at white folks and found the data supports the above. He concluded that the data says this is true across all groups in the US.

No one likes to talk about these facts, but we all know it’s true.

No schit kids that graduate HS do better. Never said they don't. I never said anything regarding church either. I go to church every Sunday so you are barking up the wrong tree regarding that one.

As far as kids out of wedlock, that doesn't mean anything since tons of things may be effecting that. People who have kids out of wedlock are most likely poorer which would cause them to most likely end up in a worse situation. The number 1 indicator of wealth, is how wealthy your parents are.

You also left out the most important factor in your 3 factor model. its poverty. Poverty trumps all those things. A HS dropout, with 1 parent, athiest, who is the son of a billionaire is going to do far better in life. Than a a HS grad, who goes to church every sunday, and has 2 parents. 999/1000 times.

 

[Mikeiavelli]

I don't have a hatred for policing. I don't like people that abuse others. There just happens to be crossover.

You are 100% wrong. I am a law abiding citizen and I have been in every socioeconomic level and at no point have the majority of my black neighbors appreciated your presence in our community. Most of the "crime" that you prevent doesn't even effect the average person living in our communities. A gang member killing another gang member or someone selling drugs, is not effecting me. Me getting arrested because I look like a drug dealer or getting beat up for "resisting" does effect me.

But the gang culture that exists, and the gang violence sure does matter to those who are caught in the crossfire.

Are you saying you got arrested because you "looked like a drug dealer" and have been beat up by the police for no reason?

 

[JD08]

No schit kids that graduate HS do better. Never said they don't. I never said anything regarding church either. I go to church every Sunday so you are barking up the wrong tree regarding that one.

As far as kids out of wedlock, that doesn't mean anything since tons of things may be effecting that. People who have kids out of wedlock are most likely poorer which would cause them to most likely end up in a worse situation. The number 1 indicator of wealth, is how wealthy your parents are.

You also left out the most important factor in your 3 factor model. its poverty. Poverty trumps all those things. A HS dropout, with 1 parent, athiest, who is the son of a billionaire is going to do far better in life. Than a a HS grad, who goes to church every sunday, and has 2 parents. 999/1000 times.

We've been fighting a war on poverty for over 50 years. How much has improved?

 

[ithacane]

so this will be long, but I have not heard one effective solution yet from any of the parroting heads on either side. Any of the solutions presented would not have solved this or many other "mass shootings" of now or before.

Gun free zones: They are two types of Gun Free zones. 1. Fully enforced gun free zones. These are ones like at an airport, court house, etc. Where every single person is positively checked for a weapon. They are fairly effective, but expensive and hard to control. Schools are much more difficult to implement this, due to the nature of multiple entry points and staffing levels to maintain integrity of all entry points. 2. The "Gun Free Zones" that hang a sign up and say no guns allowed. These become slaughter points, as only law abiding sane (loosely used here) try and obey the law. These absolutely have to be banned, cause almost every mass casualty gun related incident are here. This is absolutely where we need to look for CHANGE, they change everyone is saying needs to come, but no one is effectively identifying as the change they are calling for. BAN ALL NON ENFORCED GUN FREE ZONES. That is the answer. If it is a GUN FREE DECLARED ZONE, then the organization that is declaring it MUST BY LAW ENFORCE IT.

Second. I don't think we have got it right by folks carrying guns around in Schools. I really don't, I know my 2nd Amendment Friends will not agree with me on this one, but hear me out. There is absolutely no way a "School Resource Officer" can cover all the grounds on a school zone effectively. PLUS, they are known and have patterns that can be predicted. In addition, having teachers and other school administration folks carrying guns on their hips isn't a good idea either. They can easily lose control of those guns as most are not in a physical condition to overpower many of the younger stronger kids in these modern schools. Last, teachers and admins shouldn't be roving the halls looking for an active shooter. They should defend their ground, not patrol for a threat.

So my solution, and I have proposed this before to many folks whom once they hear it out, do not necessarily disagree with it nor find fault with the logic. it goes like this.

1. Each classroom has a small biometric safe in the classroom. Only the teacher and a designated security personal can access said safe.
2. Any teacher wishing to of their own accord have a self defense weapon to defend that classroom and that classroom alone, can put a weapons of their choice in that safe as long as it is legal.
3. Teachers would only be allowed to put something in or take it out in a non emergency situation before or after school hours when children are not present.
4. No one knows if there are 100 guns in that school, or 0. It is UNKNOWN and UNPREDICTABLE; however, a massive deterrent.
5. Any teacher that wishes to get training for defense purposes - that training counts toward master plan points of recertification.
6. This is not to have them patrol the halls, this is to barricade the rooms just like we do today; however, if something comes in that door, you don't have the slaughters that you do today

That's it. It is a price effective solution and deterrent. It doesn't have gun welding teachers roaming the halls. It doesn't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. It gives a crazy idiot thinking they are going into a "Gun Free Zone" a real deterrent to the same old I am going to kill folks that are unarmed easily.

I'm just getting caught up on this thread and saw this and it reminded me of a thought I had the other day. I'm not sure what you would call it, but in my head I call it the "ADT deterrent". A ton of people have signs outside their house that it's protected with something like ADT or SimpliSafe or some security thing. If someone is walking by houses looking to rob one... they will most likely skip over a house with a sign in front of it (or a 'beware of dog' sign). Any kind of deterrent is a good deterrent... even if it's all just smoke and mirrors.