Off-Topic Mass killings

Exactly. Many of these people are getting entangled in cycles of gun violence because of geography or retaliation. Simply based on where you live could put you in direct conflict with adjacent blocks or warring factions even if you don't have gang affiliation.
Exactly. In fact a lot of murders in NYC were from people that were not even part of a gang. It was not uncommon for non gang members to retaliate against gang members for killing one of their family members. Its not like the mafia, where if you kill one of them you are going to end up in a barrel buried under a parking lot.
 
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Mostly accidents? You don't accidentally shoot kids in a school so that might be why there is a different reaction
Look at the root cause of the traffic fatalities. Hint, people didn’t forget how to drive in 2020 but something did change in how reckless and bad driving was policed.
 
Look at the root cause of the traffic fatalities. Hint, people didn’t forget how to drive in 2020 but something did change in how reckless and bad driving was policed.
That is not even close to proven. Tons of people have drove less because of the pandemic. Which would likely cause accidents. I know up here in the north east we are getting over run with wild life like deers. Which cause over a million accidents per year already. You can't prove giving out more tickets would prevent this. Most people don't even realize this was a thing. I had no idea cops were giving less tickets, people aren't driving more recklessly because some precincts are giving less tickets.
 
OK Santo, how do you answer the underlying reasons. The three you mentioned, and show your work.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.

To address the underlying reasons for this problem requires a lot of hard work. It requires many difficult & uncomfortable discussions, as well as thorough & unbiased research.

However, this thread is highlighting that the most pressing issue is first being able to form consensus and broad agreement on the problems that are facing this country. This requires analysis based on a national & collective identity, and not an individual one.

How are we suppose to agree on solutions, when as a country we can't even agree on what the problems are?
 
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UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still massed outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.

Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.

Full Coverage: Uvalde school shooting
He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

All those killed were in the same classroom, he said.

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer and when the SWAT-like Border Patrol team shot him. But a department spokesman said later in the day that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.
 
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That is not even close to proven. Tons of people have drove less because of the pandemic. Which would likely cause accidents. I know up here in the north east we are getting over run with wild life like deers. Which cause over a million accidents per year already. You can't prove giving out more tickets would prevent this. Most people don't even realize this was a thing. I had no idea cops were giving less tickets, people aren't driving more recklessly because some precincts are giving less tickets.
I can prove they gave less tickets and deaths spiked. It’s amazing this is a non story but I guess it’s because it’s mostly black folks with the excess deaths the racists don’t care.
 
I don't understand what you're trying to say.

To address the underlying reasons for this problem requires a lot of hard work. It requires many difficult & uncomfortable discussions, as well as through & unbiased research.

However, this thread is highlighting that the most pressing issue is first being able to form consensus and broad agreement on the problems that are facing this country. This requires analysis based on a national & collective identity, and not an individual one.

How are we suppose to agree on solutions, when as a country we can't even agree on what the problems are?
With teen suicides rising along with suicides in general, I can't imagine anyone disputing mental health being an issue. Sane people don't kill large numbers of innocents, troubled people do.
 
Because so many guns are not registered, or are not currently owned by, or in the possession of, the original owner. Registration is a way to take inventory of what is out there on said date.


Again, are you really going back to the constitutional argument? It is a cop-out, IMO. We don't know what they would say about the current state of affairs.

When the constitution was drafted, slavery was legal. Should we legalize that again too? (Is the right to own slaves in the Constitution? No. But the failure to recognize how wrong slavery was is proof perfect that the Founding Fathers DID NOT, in fact, know everything.)

I would also argue that the "right to bear arms" would not be taken away by my hypothetical; the "right to purchase arms" would.
All those guns that are not registered. Who is likely to register them with coercion from the govt?

Since the Founding Fathers DID NOT, in fact, know everything. Why not just rewrite the whole **** constitution while we are at it.

Better yet. How about any rights that the ruling majority doesn’t agree with they can just rewrite at their leisure.

But seriously. I don’t agree with your concept but i respect the fact that you put it out there. (y)
 
I can prove they gave less tickets and deaths spiked. It’s amazing this is a non story but I guess it’s because it’s mostly black folks with the excess deaths the racists don’t care.
You can't prove that the reason deaths spiked was because of less tickets. Most traffic deaths aren't even with people speeding. Tons of other things have happened on the road, besides less tickets being given out. It could be any of those things.
 
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You can't prove that the reason deaths spiked was because of less tickets. Most traffic deaths aren't even with people speeding. Tons of other things have happened on the road, besides less tickets being given out. It could be any of those things.
For no reason at all traffic fatalities per mile driven spiked 24% in 2020.
 
For no reason at all traffic fatalities per mile driven spiked 24% in 2020.
What are you talking about. There are plenty of things going on, besides less tickets being given out. If your theory was correct. The EU would have way more accidents than the US because they give out a fraction of the tickets the US does.
What is your reasoning behind that?
 
What are you talking about. There are plenty of things going on, besides less tickets being given out. If your theory was correct. The EU would have way more accidents than the US because they give out a fraction of the tickets the US does.
What is your reasoning behind that?
You aren’t making the point you think your making.

Black traffic fatalities rose 36% over the last two years while all other groups are up 9%. What other factor accounts for this?
 
You aren’t making the point you think your making.

Black traffic fatalities rose 36% over the last two years while all other groups are up 9%. What other factor accounts for this?
I certainly am making the point I think I am making. You are not making the point you think you are making. Maybe the fact that they were locked down and not driving nearly as much, so when they went back on the roads they were rusty? Maybe the fact that the deer population is booming and already caused1.5 million accidents per year on a regular basis before their population boomed?

No it must be that blacks are speeding more than ever since, the cops stopped giving tickets and that is causing the increase in deaths.
 
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All those guns that are not registered. Who is likely to register them with coercion from the govt?
Again, I believe the vast majority of gun owners have nothing to hide, and would have no issue with registering their firearms.

I don't see any reason why they would not do so, and I saw no relevant retort from you... unless you consider "rewrite the whole constitution" to be relevant.

It is a lazy, regurgitated response... same as "let's fix mental health, not guns." (with no actual plan to fix mental health ever put forth, mind you...) Or, "criminals will get them anyways..." AKA, do nothing, status quo.

No one is advocating to rewrite the whole constitution. That is moving the goalposts, likely because you are losing the original argument.
Since the Founding Fathers DID NOT, in fact, know everything. Why not just rewrite the whole **** constitution while we are at it.

Better yet. How about any rights that the ruling majority doesn’t agree with they can just rewrite at their leisure.
Women and blacks/minorities could not vote until Amendments were passed. Clearly, many concepts espoused 250 years ago need to be revisited to determine whether they have a place in the modern world.

The filibuster prevents any party from imposing its will. Very relevant in today's partisan environment. That said, if 60% of a democratically elected Congress votes to amend, or "rewrite," as you put it... well, that was what the Founding Fathers put in the Constitution, was it not? Or does the intent of the Founding Fathers not count if it doesn't line up with your ideals?

I wasn't (and am not) a Trump guy, but the bozos chanting "not my President"... ummm, yes, he IS your president. Democracies work both ways.
 
With teen suicides rising along with suicides in general, I can't imagine anyone disputing mental health being an issue. Sane people don't kill large numbers of innocents, troubled people do.
You're putting forth a strawman, buddy.

What I was arguing in this thread is not that mental health is not an issue, but that there is stronger correlation between mass shootings in this country and other underlying factors. Individuals who suffer from mental illness are more likely to harm themselves, than to kill large swaths of people. Attempting to bring up the mental health crisis in this country during mass shootings, completely misses the larger & more important pts relating to this issue. If you are going to talk about mental health and the role it plays in mass shootings, then it makes much more sense to talk about the aftermath of these incidents. Exposure to gun violence is associated with an increased risk for depression & PTSD.
 
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Google is a marvelous thing, check fool. good point you close minded bot: not many police killed but ignore the dead kids. nice.
You were the one that included police deaths for no reason. Barely any cops are shot to death each year and even less are killed by AR-15s.
 
You were the one that included police deaths for no reason. Barely any cops are shot to death each year and even less are killed by AR-15s.
barely....... got it. my point (not made very well on my part ) is that AR are made for one thing: mass killing, cars have a different function. IMO (like 70% of America) the AR needs to be regulated. all these kids dying is completely nuts. have a good night.
 
barely....... got it. my point (not made very well on my part ) is that AR are made for one thing: mass killing, cars have a different function. IMO (like 70% of America) the AR needs to be regulated. all these kids dying is completely nuts. have a good night.
Ok I agree with this statement. Your other statement was ridiculous. Saying ARs were created to kill cops. When 700k are sold per year and maybe 5(this is a a very generous estimate) cops are killed per year by an AR.
 
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