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Mario and Butch

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crossover22[]_[] said:
What I've been saying homie.

Lanning is killing it. The Oregon fans love him.
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Mario won 2 pac 10 titles and got kids to the NFL. lets not act like he was a scrub.
I wasnt a hire Mario guy but people are going over board.
Butch was recruiting when miami was a few years removed of national dominance, Mario is winning recruiting battles after we sucked for 20 years.
 
nycane said:
Mario won 2 pac 10 titles and got kids to the NFL. lets not act like he was a scrub.
I wasnt a hire Mario guy but people are going over board.
Butch was recruiting when miami was a few years removed of national dominance, Mario is winning recruiting battles after we sucked for 20 years.
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2 pac titles when mario won them is the same as winning a pop Warner title.

The pac sucked *** when he was there.
 
nycane said:
Mario won 2 pac 10 titles and got kids to the NFL. lets not act like he was a scrub.
I wasnt a hire Mario guy but people are going over board.
Butch was recruiting when miami was a few years removed of national dominance, Mario is winning recruiting battles after we sucked for 20 years.
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Mario was successful at Oregon. he rightfully earned the Miami gig. he shouldn't have gotten a 10 year deal but thats what it took. now hes been a failure through his miami tenure so far. the good will built up w the hot start faded away sat night w what we knew about Mario before hand on game days. UNC is a must win for this coaching tenure
 
Dwinstitles said:
they forget that part. We are conditioned to only remember the bad
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The Administration HATED Butch....they NEVER in a Million yrs thought he could do what he did...If Butch would have had 100% cooperation and $$$ resources that Mario enjoys, it would have been a Dynasty like no other in CFB History. I could go on about the sh*t he put up with from the BOT and Administration...but there's no need. The ONLY people who had his back were the late Paul Dimare, and Stu Miller....it certainly wasn't Paul Dee at the end. Lets see, stay at UM for 1.2 million a yr...with virtually NO support....or go to Cleveland for 4yrs at 5 million a yr...with unlimited incentives. It's funny how Howard, and JJ ran for more $$$$ but they get a pass....Butch leaves for more $$$ and is vilified.
 
hoops156 said:
Mario was successful at Oregon. he rightfully earned the Miami gig. he shouldn't have gotten a 10 year deal but thats what it took. now hes been a failure through his miami tenure so far. the good will built up w the hot start faded away sat night w what we knew about Mario before hand on game days. UNC is a must win for this coaching tenure
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Look what Mario (talent wise) was left for him at Oregon...then look at the mess Erickson left Butch...absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
Look what Mario (talent wise) was left for him at Oregon...then look at the mess Erickson left Butch...absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
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I think butch is better and it really isnt close. butch is a better game day coach too. should have hired him back when he got fired in Cleveland. missed the real opportunity there as he still had it coaching wise
 
hoops156 said:
I think butch is better and it really isnt close. butch is a better game day coach too. should have hired him back when he got fired in Cleveland. missed the real opportunity there as he still had it coaching wise
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Butch walks around with 3 SB Rings, and a NC Ring (87)....should be 3 NC Rings (87,88, and 2001)...and till this very day, the ONLY Ring he wears is the UM 87 Ring.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
they forget that part. We are conditioned to only remember the bad
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Butch had a heck of an easier path to recruiting than any of the coaches after him

  • Butch - Had the NCAA investigation against him, but national championship appearances in 1989, 1991, 1992, and arguably 1994. Miami as a program was more even with other big schools in perception and spending
  • Coker - CFB recruiting began to become more sophisticated, the SEC got its act together and began put focused money (bags) behind recruits. The top schools were exempt from NCAA sanctioning. Miami did not keep up with the times under Coker
  • Shannon - Was put on a Group of 5 budget while the SEC continued to build momentum and increase spending.
  • Golden - Had the NCAA investigation against him for two years, plus the now-dominance of the SEC and their unfettered spending. Florida State peaked during this time, taking prime recruits as well.
  • Richt - Football program received a budget increase, but by this point the SEC had created so much space between themselves and all other conferences that it would be difficult to come back from. Plus it had been over ten years since Miami had been relevant
  • Diaz - Horrid start to his tenure put his long-term tenure in question in Year 2, which made recruiting somewhat challenging. NIL began to close some of the gap
  • Cristobal - Received the budget increase to get on par with SEC schools. NIL made Miami competitive after being uncompetitive as a program for 15 seasons, but still has that 15 years of bad football being recruited against him
 
GojiraCane said:
Butch had a heck of an easier path to recruiting than any of the coaches after him

  • Butch - Had the NCAA investigation against him, but national championship appearances in 1989, 1991, 1992, and arguably 1994. Miami as a program was more even with other big schools in perception and spending
  • Coker - CFB recruiting began to become more sophisticated, the SEC got its act together and began put focused money (bags) behind recruits. The top schools were exempt from NCAA sanctioning. Miami did not keep up with the times under Coker
  • Shannon - Was put on a Group of 5 budget while the SEC continued to build momentum and increase spending.
  • Golden - Had the NCAA investigation against him for two years, plus the now-dominance of the SEC and their unfettered spending. Florida State peaked during this time, taking prime recruits as well.
  • Richt - Football program received a budget increase, but by this point the SEC had created so much space between themselves and all other conferences that it would be difficult to come back from. Plus it had been over ten years since Miami had been relevant
  • Diaz - Horrid start to his tenure put his long-term tenure in question in Year 2, which made recruiting somewhat challenging. NIL began to close some of the gap
  • Cristobal - Received the budget increase to get on par with SEC schools. NIL made Miami competitive after being uncompetitive as a program for 15 seasons, but still has that 15 years of bad football being recruited against him
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That's total F-ing BS....You have absolutely no idea wtf you're talking about.....Easier path??...are you f*cking kidding me???
31 schollies
No TV or Bowl for a yr
Sports Illustrated calling For UM to end program.
Time Magazine calling Miami the worst city in America.
Marlin Barnes & GF Murdered on campus no less....
And you have the audacity to say Butch had an easier path than Mario and the other coaches after him..???....Mannnnn get tf outta my face with that stupidity.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
The Administration HATED Butch....they NEVER in a Million yrs thought he could do what he did...If Butch would have had 100% cooperation and $$$ resources that Mario enjoys, it would have been a Dynasty like no other in CFB History. I could go on about the sh*t he put up with from the BOT and Administration...but there's no need. The ONLY people who had his back were the late Paul Dimare, and Stu Miller....it certainly wasn't Paul Dee at the end. Lets see, stay at UM for 1.2 million a yr...with virtually NO support....or go to Cleveland for 4yrs at 5 million a yr...with unlimited incentives. It's funny how Howard, and JJ ran for more $$$$ but they get a pass....Butch leaves for more $$$ and is vilified.
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he was the only guy who would take the job and shalala wanted Alvarez before she was even hired. butch got pushed out anyone who knows will tell you the truth.
 
hoops156 said:
Mario was successful at Oregon. he rightfully earned the Miami gig. he shouldn't have gotten a 10 year deal but thats what it took. now hes been a failure through his miami tenure so far. the good will built up w the hot start faded away sat night w what we knew about Mario before hand on game days. UNC is a must win for this coaching tenure
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ptsd. so afraid of coaches leaving they gave him 10 years
 
nycane said:
he was the only guy who would take the job and shalala wanted Alvarez before she was even hired. butch got pushed out anyone who knows will tell you the truth.
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I know ALL too well about it, having a family member leave with Butch to Cleveland. This is why it means alot to me having @Brooklyndee on this site. He's the ONLY one who not only knows the truth, but that I'm keeping it real. I often ask, how's things been at UM since Butch, his assistants and players have left??...(last of the players left in 04)....I know, it's just a coincidence....
 
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SWFLHurricane said:
That's total F-ing BS....You have absolutely no idea wtf you're talking about.....Easier path??...are you f*cking kidding me???
31 schollies
No TV or Bowl for a yr
Sports Illustrated calling For UM to end program.
Time Magazine calling Miami the worst city in America.
Marlin Barnes & GF Murdered on campus no less....
And you have the audacity to say Butch had an easier path than Mario and the other coaches after him..???....Mannnnn get tf outta my face with that stupidity.
Click to expand...
Those are good points. I'd forgotten about the Barnes murder.

My focus was on program resources and the very recent success of the program when Butch took over. The sanctions were extremely tough, but at the same time he and his staff could point to the fact that they had been ranked #3 in a 1995 New Year's Bowl facing #1 Nebraska. Miami had competed for national championships while the incoming players were at least in middle school. The Barnes murder actually might have been a tougher hill to overcome - now that you mention it I remember that there were schools who were citing this in recruiting. When you take that into account, yes, it would have been tough.

Again, focusing on resources the gap began to widen under Coker and became a veritable chasm by the time Golden took over. And to be fair, when we got to 2011 we had much wider attention to the Shapiro scandal due to changes in media (including social media) when it broke, versus the Pell Grant disaster. Notable television personalities were calling for Miami to get the death penalty or suspend their program. I remember the initial months after the scandal broke and it was a distinct possibility that we were headed towards at least a Penn State type penalty - four years of only 15 scholarships and a four year bowl ban. That's hard to recruit against - especially when the investigation dragged on for nearly 26 months. At least Butch knew Miami's punishment during his first season.

I guess my primary consideration - right or wrong - was just how much standing pat on spending and resources impacted coaches that followed after Butch. And the impact of certain schools being able to give out up to $300K in bags to get prime players while being shielded from NCAA investigation. It's only in recent years did the school begin to take the program seriously and pore serious money into the football team, and its NIL that helped to lessen the gap created by bags.
 
GojiraCane said:
Those are good points. I'd forgotten about the Barnes murder.

My focus was on program resources and the very recent success of the program when Butch took over. The sanctions were extremely tough, but at the same time he and his staff could point to the fact that they had been ranked #3 in a 1995 New Year's Bowl facing #1 Nebraska. Miami had competed for national championships while the incoming players were at least in middle school. The Barnes murder actually might have been a tougher hill to overcome - now that you mention it I remember that there were schools who were citing this in recruiting. When you take that into account, yes, it would have been tough.

Again, focusing on resources the gap began to widen under Coker and became a veritable chasm by the time Golden took over. And to be fair, when we got to 2011 we had much wider attention to the Shapiro scandal due to changes in media (including social media) when it broke, versus the Pell Grant disaster. Notable television personalities were calling for Miami to get the death penalty or suspend their program. I remember the initial months after the scandal broke and it was a distinct possibility that we were headed towards at least a Penn State type penalty - four years of only 15 scholarships and a four year bowl ban. That's hard to recruit against - especially when the investigation dragged on for nearly 26 months. At least Butch knew Miami's punishment during his first season.

I guess my primary consideration - right or wrong - was just how much standing pat on spending and resources impacted coaches that followed after Butch. And the impact of certain schools being able to give out up to $300K in bags to get prime players while being shielded from NCAA investigation. It's only in recent years did the school begin to take the program seriously and pore serious money into the football team, and its NIL that helped to lessen the gap created by bags.
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Wrong again....89-92 had no impact whatsoever in regards to the uphill battle Butch dealt with....NONE....The Administration HATED him....they Nit Picked him to Death about every F-ing miniscule expenditure. You can't fathom how hard Pagano, Kehoe, Sarge, and Curtis worked in regards to recruiting. You can't fathom the amount of kids we lost because of the Sanctions and bad look. The Administration didn't give af about the FB program AT ALL.
 
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