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Manny era defensive numbers

If you take into account our Offense , our punting 2 years ago and whatnot I'd say Miami has been a top 8 or so Defense overall under Diaz . Which you can't ask for more then that. Best defensive mind we have had at Miami since Schiano way back 20 years ago . I have zero issues with the D scheme or coaching . We had 4 problems last season - NO OC with a pulse , NO QB half the time with one , NO kicker who could be counted on and a young but talented OL . We have fixed the first 3 and the 4th takes care of itself over time.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
The defense didn't step up in the ACC championship game? I can't remember, how many points did the offense score that night to ease their load? How many did they score in the pinstripe bowl? How many in the bowl game this year?
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And no they emphatically didn’t step up in the acc championship game .Didnt kelly Bryant start that game 17-17 and they had like 21 points in the first quarter? How many points did we give up in the pinstripe bowl, 35? This is not mutually exclusive, yes the offense sucked those games but so did the defense
 
brock said:
Defense has been far better than the offense we all know that. However I can Name a few games the defense stepped up in big games but I came name a lot of them when the defense didn’t and that’s the problem
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The difference is the defense has had to play nearly every game with zero margin for error which magnifies every failure.

This year alone in the middle of the fourth quarter the D had these point totals allowed:

UF——17
CMU—-3
UNC—20
GT——7
UVA—-9
Pitt——9
Duke—13
LTech—7

Giving up a TD late of course makes the defense look like a failure. But show me another team with those defensive numbers that’s always in a do or die situation in the fourth.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Who's Iowa's comp? Who's Clemson's comp? Who's San Diego State's comp?

Such a lazy rebuttal. 12+ teams show up on the schedule every year, for every team. Of all those teams playing all those games, Miami has the 14th best scoring defense since Manny arrived. 14th out of 130 is top 11%. Not too bad.

And, if the take about the defensive success is that "the comp is trash", then that's even MORE of an indictment on the offense. The defense is inflated because the competition is trash, but the offense still can't crack the top 80 in any metric. Even more embarrassing.
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Clemson’s Defense has a history of dominating or playing very good games against elite competition. Their Defense produces good NFL players. Their Defense is usually as good as advertised. Forgive me if I don’t drink the Kool Aide about our Defense especially since it struggles with any Offense with a pulse. Blaming the Offense on our Defensive struggles is also a lazy take.
 
brock said:
And no they emphatically didn’t step up in the acc championship game .Didnt kelly Bryant start that game 17-17 and they had like 21 points in the first quarter? How many points did we give up in the pinstripe bowl, 35? This is not mutually exclusive, yes the offense sucked those games but so did the defense
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Rosier's first throw in the Pinstripe was picked off and returned to our 7 yard line. He threw two more interceptions and we fumbled away another possession and we were still only down 14-3 at half. He finished 5-12 with 3 INTs that game.

Perry then came in and went 1-5 with an INT in the second half. So overall we completed six passes to our team and four to theirs

Lmao on the D giving up 35 in that game. Against 95% of the teams in college football it would have been 60 or more after that offensive debacle.
 
IIRC, Malik Roiser hit a Wisconsin defender directly in the chest on the first offensive play of the pinstripe bowl and they returned the ball inside our 5.

I'm not saying the defense has been perfect in every situation. Not even close, and I said that in the OP. But for every gripe about the defense, there should be about 100 on the offense. That's how much worse they've been, proportionally. If the offense was even as close to as good as the defense has been over the past 4 years, Miami would be a perennial Top 10-15 team. As it stands, we're 13-13 in the past 2 seasons. That's not even remotely reflective of how the defense has played, overall.
 
Hurracanes said:
Clemson’s Defense has a history of dominating or playing very good games against elite competition. Their Defense produces good NFL players. Their Defense is usually as good as advertised. Forgive me if I don’t drink the Kool Aide about our Defense especially since it struggles with any Offense with a pulse. Blaming the Offense on our Defensive struggles is also a lazy take.
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I never blamed them. I said it contributes. Which is 150% fact.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
With the off-season in full swing, I wanted to take a quick look at the defensive numbers overall since Manny arrived. Again, as with all statistics, this is not the absolute concrete only way to look at things. But I took PPG allowed, only against FBS teams (we don't care about scrimmages against FCS teams) since 2016.

Again, not perfect, because this doesn't account garbage time, it doesn't account for if your special teams or offense gives up points (for example, Miami's "defense" gave up 28 against GT last fall, including OT. But 7 were on a sack/fumble for a TD, and 7 were on a fake punt. So the defense only gave up 14, but this number reflects Miami giving up 28 points.). So, not completely perfect, but I think it's clearly the best number we can get to compare.

Here are the top 15 teams in the country in terms of average PPG allowed over the past 4 seasons:

TEAM4 YR AVG
CLEMSON15.20
ALABAMA16.13
WISCONSIN17.25
IOWA17.65
WASHINGTON18.20
MICHIGAN18.25
GEORGIA18.38
OHIO STATE18.43
APP STATE19.08
SAN DIEGO STATE19.73
AUBURN19.73
PENN STATE19.80
LSU20.43
MIAMI21.13
FLORIDA21.15


So Miami comes in at 14th overall in terms of points allowed in the past 4 seasons combined. Not a bad showing by Manny and his staff. Yes, 3rd downs at times have not been great. Yes, at times getting stops late in games have not been great. Yes, 14th puts you probably in that "very good" category, and not completely elite like Clemson and Bama have been. But overall, this performance is MILES better than what the offense has produced. And again, if your offense can get out of its own way, maybe you don't need to have a stop late in a game to secure a win. Maybe you don't have to be absolutely perfect on 3rd downs if your offense is scoring 30+ a game.

So, for me, as it's been for a LONG time around here, this season is squarely on the shoulders of Lashlee and the offensive staff. We know what the defense is going to provide. For 4 years, they've been a Top 15 scoring defense. I don't think people understand what the program can look like if you paired a Top 14 defense with even a Top 30 offense. I'm going to take a look at similar offensive numbers later on, but look at those names Miami is in company with on this list. Bama, Clemson, Wisconsin, Washington, Ohio State, UGA, Michigan, Auburn....these are all winning programs, and in most cases, REALLY successful programs. Please, for the love of god, just find SOME semblance of an explosive offense. We now have a punter. We *should* have a really good kicker. We know the defense is going to do what they do. Can we score 30 a game and finally overpower this division?
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Did you take out the FCS teams played by all teams on this list or just ours?
 
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brock said:
Clemson’s Defense has a history of dominating or playing very good games against elite competition. Their Defense produces good NFL players. Their Defense is usually as good as advertised. Forgive me if I don’t drink the Kool Aide about our Defense especially since it struggles with any Offense with a pulse. Blaming the Offense on our Defensive struggles is also a lazy take.
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“Struggles with any offense with a pulse”

Show me five games in the last four years where you think this D played poorly start to finish and cost us the W.
 
Dwinstitles said:
This and our comp is trash
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THANK YOU!
I was waiting for someone not to be blind by the smoke and mirrors. I’ve dissected this defense on countless of threads already. Outside of 2017, our schedule has included (not considering FCS teams), teams w/ a combined win pct on avg of 61% or roughly 8 wins.
2016, played one team that finished top 25 (reg season)
2017 (our best schedule), played 2 teams that finished top 25 (reg season)
2018, played one team that finished top 25 (reg season)
2019, played one team that finished top 25 (reg season)

We’ve had a cupcake schedule for a while. However, even w/ all that said, the offense have left the Def out to dry several times as well. The def have also given up several leads in the latter quarters after the offense took the lead.

We’ve always said the O was the problem, and I agree w that......this season the O shouldn’t (emphasize on shouldn't) be the problem this year, especially w another soft schedule. It’s going to be really interesting to see how we do this yr. Like Berrios said, there should be no excuses this season. The DL should be stout if not dominant, the O should get our players the rock in open space where we score.

I’m truly excited & intrigued by this yr b/c this storyline should either prove truth or more holes will be poked.
 
Yeah, the offense sucks, and that contributes to defensive issues, as does special teams, and any number of other things. Stats are stats and can be made to say whatever we want them to say for the most part. For me, I have to ask myself if I trust the defense to come up with a big stop, make a play at a critical moment, save the game from the offense in the 4Q, rise up to sudden changes, make the open field tackle to get off the field, get to the QB on 4th and 17, make sure that FIU receivers are actually covered at the end of the game.....the answer to my question is a resounding no. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, because if there's a way to fluck something up, they've shown time and again that they'll find it. Carry on with the stats though.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
“Struggles with any offense with a pulse”

Show me five games in the last four years where you think this D played poorly start to finish and cost us the W.
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I can only think of a couple examples in the past 4 years where I thought the defense was poorly coached, out executed/played, or both:

-- 2016 vs VT when half the defense was out, and we also gave up 400 sacks on offense. But they whipped our *** at the point of attack and had over 500 yards

-- 2016 vs ND in the first half, although the defense was much better after halftime. 20-0 hole was probably too much to overcome, although, quick crazy idea, maybe score more than 0 points in the first 25 mins on offense???

-- 2017 ACCCG....again, absolutely putrid offensive performance, but Bryant did carve us up basically the whole game. Clemson was just a way better football team in every aspect.

-- 2018 at Boston College....one of the only games I thought Manny was absolutely outcoached, especially to start the game. BC had us on our heels the whole game, and we still only gave up 27, but it was not a great defensive performance.

-- 2018 Pinstripe Bowl....the whole team quit

-- 2019 FIU....although IMO this game was much more on the offense, letting FIU score 30 is inexcusable, even if they were off turnovers and a late game score when we were selling out for a stop.

There are a couple others I'm sure someone could make an argument for, but those to me are the ones where I simply felt the defense did not give the team enough of a chance to win the game. 6 games in 4 years. Now someone do the offense. 25 games in 4 years?
 
Go Canes!! said:
Lmao. Your moping has hit parody account status.

I'd say it's become what NY guy is to *** innuendo, but he's actually joking.
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He joking?....

giphy - 2020-02-10T113357.986.gif
 
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