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Losing in winning? (Miami-Vatech thoughts)

k9cane said:
Miami wins 34-17, but really, based on what they needed -- a real convincing blowout -- this kinda felt like a... well, not sure. Louis Riddick, who called the game for ESPN seemed to understand the assignment better than the team or Mario Cristobal. Hey, it is what it is. It was interesting to see Miami score a last minute TD (Malware Toney, infecting secondaries all over the country) and I wonder if that will sway the perception any.

Yeah. it's come to this. But that's what happens when you drop ACC games you are favored in.

Today, there was losing in winning. Now, it seems like UM needs a ton of help to make the tournament.

- While Shannon Dawson will tell you that he hasn't drawn up anything new in the past few weeks, the reality is that this offense does look different. They came out in the first play with a full house backfield look and a hand off to Elija Lofton. You saw a lot more of the pistol formation, jet sweep action and continuing to utilize Malachi Toney as a throw off the end-around motion

It was all set up at the half. Miami put forth a dominating, up 20-3. But in a game where every point mattered and a convincing blowout was needed, the Canes sputtered in the second half. They not only failed to 'pour it on' as Jimmy Johnson said so famously, they actually had to hold off a hard charging Hokie squad that didn't quit.

- Again, the tempo that Cristobal plays with limits possessions and plays. Not sure why you would ever want to do that when you have the superior team and some of the offensive weapons Miami has. I love the new-found creativity, just wish there was a quicker tempo attached to it at times.

- Miami freshman continue to stand out, from Toney, to Josh Moore, to Daylen Upshaw and Girard Pringle, they all made key plays. This is a really good foundation on this side of the ball. The question is, who will be their QB?

- Speaking of which, Carson Beck has been really sharp the past few weeks. Just steady and accurate.

- Run defense wasn't good early on, and wasn't really good for much of this contest. The Hokies gashed them a bit in the first half, Marcellus Hawkins broke off a long run as Miami had issues getting off blocks and setting the edge. The VaTech offense was really handcuffed when they were in 3rd and long, but then late in the game they gave up some key conversions. This unit has been really good for most of the season, but today they weren't good enough for what Miami needed. To be fair, injuries have stripped this unit of key depth and solid polayers

- Near the end of the first half as Miami got the ball back, that series before as the Hokies had the ball, is exactly why fans flat out question the integrity of ACC officiating. Basically, they got 3 tries on 4th and 1, and they eventually got it as Kyrone Drones made a great individual effort as it looked like Chase Smith stuffed him. ACC officiating is beyond bad. I wonder if its flat out corrupted at times

- The Brockemeyer botched snap in the 3rd quarter was key. Miami had just gotten a first down deep in their territory and then that play put Miami way behind the sticks .The offense never recovered their mojo

- Is it just me or has Akheem Mesidor outplayed Ruben Bain the past few weeks?
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I understand you are a journalist Steve and therefore maybe you are being diplomatic with this write up but if you watched that game and didn't see that there was an orchestrated effort by the officiating crew to disrupt Miami then you cant see the forest for the trees man.

As a member of the media you should be leading the charge regarding the unequivocal insanity that Miami deals with from ACC officials year in and year out. We did plenty to lose against SMU and Louisville but game altering and out of character calls or rule interpretations were made at strategic moments of those games. We win both in spite of ourselves if they just call it straight.

Say I am a conspiracy theorist, hand me a tin foil hat, I don't care. I watch too much football. I see too many ranked teams get help in key moments in other conferences. We are consistently screwed over in the most imaginative of ways in every meaningful game we play in the ACC.

I get that complaining about the officials is loser talk and all that but when it is this blatant and impactful its a loser mentality to not call these ******** on it. If we ever want to see our teams reach their potential and not underperform this issue with the officials has to improve.
 
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k9cane said:
Miami wins 34-17, but really, based on what they needed -- a real convincing blowout -- this kinda felt like a... well, not sure. Louis Riddick, who called the game for ESPN seemed to understand the assignment better than the team or Mario Cristobal. Hey, it is what it is. It was interesting to see Miami score a last minute TD (Malware Toney, infecting secondaries all over the country) and I wonder if that will sway the perception any.

Yeah. it's come to this. But that's what happens when you drop ACC games you are favored in.

Today, there was losing in winning. Now, it seems like UM needs a ton of help to make the tournament.

- While Shannon Dawson will tell you that he hasn't drawn up anything new in the past few weeks, the reality is that this offense does look different. They came out in the first play with a full house backfield look and a hand off to Elija Lofton. You saw a lot more of the pistol formation, jet sweep action and continuing to utilize Malachi Toney as a throw off the end-around motion

It was all set up at the half. Miami put forth a dominating, up 20-3. But in a game where every point mattered and a convincing blowout was needed, the Canes sputtered in the second half. They not only failed to 'pour it on' as Jimmy Johnson said so famously, they actually had to hold off a hard charging Hokie squad that didn't quit.

- Again, the tempo that Cristobal plays with limits possessions and plays. Not sure why you would ever want to do that when you have the superior team and some of the offensive weapons Miami has. I love the new-found creativity, just wish there was a quicker tempo attached to it at times.

- Miami freshman continue to stand out, from Toney, to Josh Moore, to Daylen Upshaw and Girard Pringle, they all made key plays. This is a really good foundation on this side of the ball. The question is, who will be their QB?

- Speaking of which, Carson Beck has been really sharp the past few weeks. Just steady and accurate.

- Run defense wasn't good early on, and wasn't really good for much of this contest. The Hokies gashed them a bit in the first half, Marcellus Hawkins broke off a long run as Miami had issues getting off blocks and setting the edge. The VaTech offense was really handcuffed when they were in 3rd and long, but then late in the game they gave up some key conversions. This unit has been really good for most of the season, but today they weren't good enough for what Miami needed. To be fair, injuries have stripped this unit of key depth and solid polayers

- Near the end of the first half as Miami got the ball back, that series before as the Hokies had the ball, is exactly why fans flat out question the integrity of ACC officiating. Basically, they got 3 tries on 4th and 1, and they eventually got it as Kyrone Drones made a great individual effort as it looked like Chase Smith stuffed him. ACC officiating is beyond bad. I wonder if its flat out corrupted at times

- The Brockemeyer botched snap in the 3rd quarter was key. Miami had just gotten a first down deep in their territory and then that play put Miami way behind the sticks .The offense never recovered their mojo

- Is it just me or has Akheem Mesidor outplayed Ruben Bain the past few weeks?
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It's a tricky situation to be in. I can recall my son in an AAU game against a team that had Gregg Brown on it ten years ago. Final game of the tournament; we needed to win this game by 15 points to win the tournament. The team and the coach became obsessed with the score - we were winning by 9 at half time but the focus became margin of victory and not the game itself. Brown's team came back in the second half and won in overtime.
 
Cribby said:
Beck struggles when the picture changes then his footwork and mechanics breaks down. If he’s throwing to his first read maybe second he’s very accurate but his issues start when they aren’t open . It’s always been his downfall.
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I certainly agree that he struggles when there is pressure. And his clock tends to speed up with he gets to that 3rd read.

But I think it’s largely an overblown narrative that he can’t go through his progressions.

I’d say it is more that period after the progressions, when other guys (like cam) can make something happen during a broken play by buying time. He can’t do that. But, to me, that is different than not being able to go through progressions.
 
Kn[]_[]ckles3o5 said:
I understand you are a journalist Steve and therefore maybe you are being diplomatic with this write up but if you watched that game and didn't see that there was an orchestrated effort by the officiating crew to disrupt Miami then you cant see the forest for the trees man.

As a member of the media you should be leading the charge regarding the unequivocal insanity that Miami deals with from ACC officials year in and year out. We did plenty to lose against SMU and Louisville but game altering and out of character calls or rule interpretations were made at strategic moments of those games. We win both in spite of ourselves if they just call it straight.

Say I am a conspiracy theorist, hand me a tin foil hat, I don't care. I watch too much football. I see too many ranked teams get help in key moments in other conferences. We are consistently screwed over in the most imaginative of ways in every meaningful game we play in the ACC.

I get that complaining about the officials is loser talk and all that but when it is this blatant and impactful its a loser mentality to not call these ******** on it. If we ever want to see our teams reach their potential and not underperform this issue with the officials has to improve.
Click to expand...
Why would the acc conspire to keep its best team and only chance for a 2nd bid out of the playoffs?

Step off the ledge.
 
Kn[]_[]ckles3o5 said:
I understand you are a journalist Steve and therefore maybe you are being diplomatic with this write up but if you watched that game and didn't see that there was an orchestrated effort by the officiating crew to disrupt Miami then you cant see the forest for the trees man.

As a member of the media you should be leading the charge regarding the unequivocal insanity that Miami deals with from ACC officials year in and year out. We did plenty to lose against SMU and Louisville but game altering and out of character calls or rule interpretations were made at strategic moments of those games. We win both in spite of ourselves if they just call it straight.

Say I am a conspiracy theorist, hand me a tin foil hat, I don't care. I watch too much football. I see too many ranked teams get help in key moments in other conferences. We are consistently screwed over in the most imaginative of ways in every meaningful game we play in the ACC.

I get that complaining about the officials is loser talk and all that but when it is this blatant and impactful its a loser mentality to not call these ******** on it. If we ever want to see our teams reach their potential and not underperform this issue with the officials has to improve.
Click to expand...
If what you're saying is true, what is the motive? How would keeping Miami out of a playoff with 2 losses in the conference be of any benefit to the ACC?
 
k9cane said:
Miami wins 34-17, but really, based on what they needed -- a real convincing blowout -- this kinda felt like a... well, not sure. Louis Riddick, who called the game for ESPN seemed to understand the assignment better than the team or Mario Cristobal. Hey, it is what it is. It was interesting to see Miami score a last minute TD (Malware Toney, infecting secondaries all over the country) and I wonder if that will sway the perception any.

Yeah. it's come to this. But that's what happens when you drop ACC games you are favored in.

Today, there was losing in winning. Now, it seems like UM needs a ton of help to make the tournament.

- While Shannon Dawson will tell you that he hasn't drawn up anything new in the past few weeks, the reality is that this offense does look different. They came out in the first play with a full house backfield look and a hand off to Elija Lofton. You saw a lot more of the pistol formation, jet sweep action and continuing to utilize Malachi Toney as a throw off the end-around motion

It was all set up at the half. Miami put forth a dominating, up 20-3. But in a game where every point mattered and a convincing blowout was needed, the Canes sputtered in the second half. They not only failed to 'pour it on' as Jimmy Johnson said so famously, they actually had to hold off a hard charging Hokie squad that didn't quit.

- Again, the tempo that Cristobal plays with limits possessions and plays. Not sure why you would ever want to do that when you have the superior team and some of the offensive weapons Miami has. I love the new-found creativity, just wish there was a quicker tempo attached to it at times.

- Miami freshman continue to stand out, from Toney, to Josh Moore, to Daylen Upshaw and Girard Pringle, they all made key plays. This is a really good foundation on this side of the ball. The question is, who will be their QB?

- Speaking of which, Carson Beck has been really sharp the past few weeks. Just steady and accurate.

- Run defense wasn't good early on, and wasn't really good for much of this contest. The Hokies gashed them a bit in the first half, Marcellus Hawkins broke off a long run as Miami had issues getting off blocks and setting the edge. The VaTech offense was really handcuffed when they were in 3rd and long, but then late in the game they gave up some key conversions. This unit has been really good for most of the season, but today they weren't good enough for what Miami needed. To be fair, injuries have stripped this unit of key depth and solid polayers

- Near the end of the first half as Miami got the ball back, that series before as the Hokies had the ball, is exactly why fans flat out question the integrity of ACC officiating. Basically, they got 3 tries on 4th and 1, and they eventually got it as Kyrone Drones made a great individual effort as it looked like Chase Smith stuffed him. ACC officiating is beyond bad. I wonder if its flat out corrupted at times

- The Brockemeyer botched snap in the 3rd quarter was key. Miami had just gotten a first down deep in their territory and then that play put Miami way behind the sticks .The offense never recovered their mojo

- Is it just me or has Akheem Mesidor outplayed Ruben Bain the past few weeks?
Click to expand...
yes on Mesidore. Bain looked slow today. His arm is really wrapped now. He gets held on every play - many times in front of the refs who do nothing. It's pathetic
 
Da Jumbo Mutombo said:
Notre Dame understood the assignment.

Up 28-0 in the first quarter versus Syracuse.

Anybody can say what they want, but these things matter.
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not a single point is offensive. They ran back a punt and picked off the walk on QB 3 times for TDS.....

I think Brown played him on purpose, lol
 
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scrantoncane said:
I certainly agree that he struggles when there is pressure. And his clock tends to speed up with he gets to that 3rd read.

But I think it’s largely an overblown narrative that he can’t go through his progressions.

I’d say it is more that period after the progressions, when other guys (like cam) can make something happen during a broken play by buying time. He can’t do that. But, to me, that is different than not being able to go through progressions.
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Three years of film says he struggles with progression’s. Cover 8 and cover 6 or some kind of zone flat on one side baits him then he throws late into the middle of the field. It’s a thing. If you take away his cold steaks he’s actually pretty **** accurate.
 
I despise the style point thing. It’s hard enough to win every week in CFB. But it is what it is.
 
CaneinBroward said:
If what you're saying is true, what is the motive? How would keeping Miami out of a playoff with 2 losses in the conference be of any benefit to the ACC?
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A statistical studying on refereeing in different conferences showed that the ACC referees showed preferential treatment towards original members of the conference. At least at that time - almost a decade ago - the success of the original members seemed to outweigh everything else.
 
GojiraCane said:
A statistical studying on refereeing in different conferences showed that the ACC referees showed preferential treatment towards original members of the conference. At least at that time - almost a decade ago - the success of the original members seemed to outweigh everything else.
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Okay, what is the motive for that-----especially after 20 years as a conference member?
 
If you think the committee would’ve took us more serious if we won 41-0 you’re mistaken. They’d be trying to put a 3 loss SEC team in over us somehow.

Miami is their villain and perfect scapegoat.
 
Lokest said:
If you're satisfied doing less with more and missing the playoffs and ACCCG every year because we used to be worse that's fine but I and many others won't.
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Extremely satisfied - we used to be an embarrassment.

I hope you and the many others have put your hands in your pockets for NIL deals.
 
L A M P said:
If you think the committee would’ve took us more serious if we won 41-0 you’re mistaken. They’d be trying to put a 3 loss SEC team in over us.

Miami is fun their villain and perfect scapegoat.
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This right here, we have the same record as Nd and the head to head and are 4 spots below them.... everything else is hors****
 
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QuattroCane said:
Disappointing performance overall in my opinion. I don’t care how much we won by. I thought we had actually hit our stride after North Carolina State and were ready to start playing like we should.
More distressing to me was the pathetic effort by the defense. Did we not know exactly what their game plan was going to be?
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not on offense, other than all the penalties again. They played very well. Should have had 8 more points but for that errant snap and the holding penalty on McCoy

The defense is getting ravaged with injuries. Losing Scott and Thomas, two guys who are important leaders as well as players, really hurt today.
The defense had a time containing their run game.
 
refs absolutely took this game over. ive seen that before in close games, but in blowouts, its realllllly suspect.
 
scrantoncane said:
I certainly agree that he struggles when there is pressure. And his clock tends to speed up with he gets to that 3rd read.

But I think it’s largely an overblown narrative that he can’t go through his progressions.

I’d say it is more that period after the progressions, when other guys (like cam) can make something happen during a broken play by buying time. He can’t do that. But, to me, that is different than not being able to go through progressions.
Click to expand...
He played really well thepast two games. Nothing to criticize there.

The OL was not good today - holding, two false starts, delay of game, and that awful snap. All at very inopportune times. They can pass block like the best of them.....
 
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