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LIFW

JG13 said:
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@HurricanePhilly will handle the announcements...


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AmherstCane said:
You sound like you have a better vantage point than me… but I have to respectfully disagree with the likelihood of players ultimately having financial exposure based upon the available information.

All of Ruiz’s public statements support the NIL deals as being arms length business marketing transactions, the school presumably reviewed the contracts, and I’m quite certain the players didn’t have the first clue other than that they were being paid to market the company as U athletes (which is a permissible and legal business expense). Heck I think even Ruiz genuinely believed he could get market traction through NIL sponsorships…. You just have to have a better service than what LIFW was selling.
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Your arguments and points (like statements made by Ruiz) are certainly the type the athletes would run up the flag pole in defending a Trustee's adversary to recoup proceeds. That doesn't mean there isn't exposure, and bankruptcy attorneys sophisticated in preference/fraud actions do not come cheap. It's best for the athletes that Life Wallet does not file for (or be involuntarily placed in) bankruptcy. If it does, I'm reasonably certain that the cost of defending an adversary is the base line of exposure for the athletes. Each particular contract and transaction is a world unto itself and may have to be addressed. A component of "arm's length" is the reasonableness of the compensation. With such an unestablished market for NIL when the larger deals were made, we are potentially talking about truly mischief making deals and transactions in the context of bankruptcy.

Again, best for all associated with UM that Life Wallet stay out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy filings with strands of fraud and deception get messy for everyone that has been involved with the company in the past few years.
 
AmherstCane said:
You sound like you have a better vantage point than me… but I have to respectfully disagree with the likelihood of players ultimately having financial exposure based upon the available information.

All of Ruiz’s public statements support the NIL deals as being arms length business marketing transactions, the school presumably reviewed the contracts, and I’m quite certain the players didn’t have the first clue other than that they were being paid to market the company as U athletes (which is a permissible and legal business expense). Heck I think even Ruiz genuinely believed he could get market traction through NIL sponsorships…. You just have to have a better service than what LIFW was selling.
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Yeah, no lawyer. But in what universe are athletes considered anything but creditors in this case (similar to employees and suppliers)? Life Wallet has present and deferred liabilities that they owe to these athletes. I cannot fathom a situation where they get past payments clawed back for their services rendered.

edit: I just saw your post above with your point about reasonableness of compensation. if other entities in NIL are paying equivalent amounts, isn't the market clearing price "reasonable"? Again, I can't see how this falls on the athlete. Sounds like fake news that other programs will use to recruit against us.
 
Pimpdaddycane said:
Your arguments and points (like statements made by Ruiz) are certainly the type the athletes would run up the flag pole in defending a Trustee's adversary to recoup proceeds. That doesn't mean there isn't exposure, and bankruptcy attorneys sophisticated in preference/fraud actions do not come cheap. It's best for the athletes that Life Wallet does not file for (or be involuntarily placed in) bankruptcy. If it does, I'm reasonably certain that the cost of defending an adversary is the base line of exposure for the athletes. Each particular contract and transaction is a world unto itself and may have to be addressed. A component of "arm's length" is the reasonableness of the compensation. With such an unestablished market for NIL when the larger deals were made, we are potentially talking about truly mischief making deals and transactions in the context of bankruptcy.

Again, best for all associated with UM that Life Wallet stay out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy filings with strands of fraud and deception get messy for everyone that has been involved with the company in the past few years.
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All due respect, I highly doubt that the money paid for the advertising (NIL) would be clawed back in this situation.

Yes, I understand the concept. I've worked for clients going through BR proceedings, though it was a while back.

But the biggest (disclosed) amount thus far has been Nijel Pack at 400K. I realize it's not completely comparable, but pro athletes are paid a LOT to endorse. College athletes will be trickier, due to the newness of NIL, there is definitely not an established FMV history out there to compare to. But, the Cavinder twins were paid a lot, and by a LOT of different companies, and I highly doubt there is any question on that. The men's basketball team went to the Final Four. The best "argument" to be made for NIL paid to football players would be a good record in 2023. With those kinds of support evidence, and not-outrageous dollar amounts, combined with the actual proof that the athletes did things to earn the money, my past experiences would seem to indicate that ordinary & necessary business expenses which are not outrageous in dollar amount will be allowed to stand.

Is there a temptation to lay waste to every expense on the books? Sure. And I don't know if that happens more on small businesses. But for publicly-traded companies (which I've worked for for 20 years), the added level of having audited financials tends to mean that the government will go after exec comp and T&E and related types of things, but not as much of the ordinary stuff.

And who knows, maybe he was paying TVD $5M. But doubtful.

My honest observations over 3 decades involve the government going "harder" at certain times (recessions) and for certain industries (banking) which have drawn a lot of negative publicity. And I'm sure there are exceptions. But I don't think that LifeWallet is "failing" because of the advertising expense. I'd expect the government to go after the law firm and/or the sellers of the legal claims, because that's where there is a lot more potential recovery.

Oh, and the PLANE...


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Pimpdaddycane said:
Your arguments and points (like statements made by Ruiz) are certainly the type the athletes would run up the flag pole in defending a Trustee's adversary to recoup proceeds. That doesn't mean there isn't exposure, and bankruptcy attorneys sophisticated in preference/fraud actions do not come cheap. It's best for the athletes that Life Wallet does not file for (or be involuntarily placed in) bankruptcy. If it does, I'm reasonably certain that the cost of defending an adversary is the base line of exposure for the athletes. Each particular contract and transaction is a world unto itself and may have to be addressed. A component of "arm's length" is the reasonableness of the compensation. With such an unestablished market for NIL when the larger deals were made, we are potentially talking about truly mischief making deals and transactions in the context of bankruptcy.

Again, best for all associated with UM that Life Wallet stay out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy filings with strands of fraud and deception get messy for everyone that has been involved with the company in the past few years.
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I think everyone can agree to the bolded portion.

But, for example, the school already had to evaluate and approve the reasonableness of the compensation of the NIL deals (pursuant to NCAA regulations and Florida law). Also, even Pack’s deal is small compared to the big NIL players… and we went to the F4 last year. The fact that Ruiz blasted the amount is, ironically, also evidence of the business/marketing purpose of the transaction.

I think a real concern would be for players who receive NIL payments within 90 days of a bankruptcy filing. That’s where clawbacks are a BIG and real problem.

I just don’t see anything currently to put NIL deals outside the category of legitimate business transactions. Maybe I’m looking through OG glasses? But I did see LIFW crashing and burning… so I don’t think I’m a total blind homer.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
All due respect, I highly doubt that the money paid for the advertising (NIL) would be clawed back in this situation.

Yes, I understand the concept. I've worked for clients going through BR proceedings, though it was a while back.

But the biggest (disclosed) amount thus far has been Nijel Pack at 400K. I realize it's not completely comparable, but pro athletes are paid a LOT to endorse. College athletes will be trickier, due to the newness of NIL, there is definitely not an established FMV history out there to compare to. But, the Cavinder twins were paid a lot, and by a LOT of different companies, and I highly doubt there is any question on that. The men's basketball team went to the Final Four. The best "argument" to be made for NIL paid to football players would be a good record in 2023. With those kinds of support evidence, and not-outrageous dollar amounts, combined with the actual proof that the athletes did things to earn the money, my past experiences would seem to indicate that ordinary & necessary business expenses which are not outrageous in dollar amount will be allowed to stand.

Is there a temptation to lay waste to every expense on the books? Sure. And I don't know if that happens more on small businesses. But for publicly-traded companies (which I've worked for for 20 years), the added level of having audited financials tends to mean that the government will go after exec comp and T&E and related types of things, but not as much of the ordinary stuff.

And who knows, maybe he was paying TVD $5M. But doubtful.

My honest observations over 3 decades involve the government going "harder" at certain times (recessions) and for certain industries (banking) which have drawn a lot of negative publicity. And I'm sure there are exceptions. But I don't think that LifeWallet is "failing" because of the advertising expense. I'd expect the government to go after the law firm and/or the sellers of the legal claims, because that's where there is a lot more potential recovery.

Oh, and the PLANE.
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that plane will be part of MPH Clubs fleet very soon and they'll acquire it at a huge discount.

its actually a cautionary tale. if he never went public and kept up with the firm and created the app on the side as a side hustle, maybe none of this happens.
 
blah124 said:
that plane will be part of MPH Clubs fleet very soon and they'll acquire it at a huge discount.

its actually a cautionary tale. if he never went public and kept up with the firm and created the app on the side as a side hustle, maybe none of this happens.
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Hear me out...

UHealth acquires the plane...

I swear, I am walking a VERY FINE LINE with @Empirical Cane ...


:LOL:
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Hear me out...

UHealth acquires the plane...

I swear, I am walking a VERY FINE LINE with @Empirical Cane ...


:LOL:
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I see your plane and raise you pill mill subscriptions.

UHealth takes the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ profits, along with Royal Saudi $$$$$$$$$$$, and Hurricanes are independent.

NIL budget grows to $500MM per year.


Natty 2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, possibly each year through 2050s.

Miami fuccin.
 
Empirical Cane said:
I see your plane and raise you pill mill subscriptions.

UHealth takes the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ profits, along with Royal Saudi $$$$$$$$$$$, and Hurricanes are independent.

NIL budget grows to $500MM per year.


Natty 2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, possibly each year through 2050s.

Miami fuccin.
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***** all the boosters. rename every building after a sheikh in the UAE in exchange for a bill. have them fund the wins
 
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Pimpdaddycane said:
U.S. Bankruptcy Trustees are an aggressive lot. I’m a bankruptcy lawyer, but have only modest expertise in preference/fraudulent-transfer clawback adversary proceedings. My opinion (worth what’s been paid for it) is the athletes can expect they will be served with an adversary complaint to pay back monies if they don’t do so pre-litigation. There is a vast body of precedent governing the outcome of such an adversary, and facts and circumstances of each payment/contract will be highly scrutinized.
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Appreciate you opining. My practice is somewhat on the other side. Question if willing to answer - what is the threshold for clawback? I always thought it was the very nature of the contribution had to be an advancement of the fraud. However, 1) that’s not to say that’s correct, 2) that is focused on the charity, not individual, and 3) doesn’t mean the trustee won’t try to collect regardless of thresholds.
 
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Anyone know the funding selection "dynamics" of the Canes "collective"? We knew what it was with LIFW; if Pack (or maybe even Cleveland) were looking for some more moola to play (basketball) here, presumably Ruiz just needed to be a willing (and able) fan...

...taking note of the recent portal flop$ for 2023 transfers, what "dynamics" in the collective's criteria for NIL even gives basketball a fair chance going forward? ...it's not like contributors get to vote (although I daresay most would vote football.)

Regarding bankruptcy: all lawyering aside, I assume Pack has another $400K coming for next season, and so wouldn't feel great about seeing an adverse LIFW financial announcement. No doubt powers that be will see he gets his compensation, but perhaps most concerning is "the look"... other portal transfer or recruiting prospects aren't likely to be particularly attracted to the short Miami NIL legacy as a result. Thanks to LIFW for past promotion but now time to move on.
 
jkdood said:
Anyone know the funding selection "dynamics" of the Canes "collective"? We knew what it was with LIFW; if Pack (or maybe even Cleveland) were looking for some more moola to play (basketball) here, presumably Ruiz just needed to be a willing (and able) fan...

...taking note of the recent portal flop$ for 2023 transfers, what "dynamics" in the collective's criteria for NIL even gives basketball a fair chance going forward? ...it's not like contributors get to vote (although I daresay most would vote football.)

Regarding bankruptcy: all lawyering aside, I assume Pack has another $400K coming for next season, and so wouldn't feel great about seeing an adverse LIFW financial announcement. No doubt powers that be will see he gets his compensation, but perhaps most concerning is "the look"... other portal transfer or recruiting prospects aren't likely to be particularly attracted to the short Miami NIL legacy as a result. Thanks to LIFW for past promotion but now time to move on.
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I assume LIFW will not be paying him the 400k if it isnt already paid out. id expect canes collective or the future kings of miami, the saudis, to ensure pack is good
 
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