Keys to a win over Kentucky

[kyhurricane]

I was there in person and I probably need to go back and watch the TV replay when I get time...but a few things very simply put:

1) Omier/Poplar showed up and played well considering the moment and the workload they were basically forced to handle.

2) #1 being said...Omier/Poplar shouldn't have to carry the load like they did - Pack/Joseph got outplayed at the guard spots TERRIBLY, and for as great of an athlete and former 5* as Cleveland is, he disppeared as well. Rupp is a difficult place to play, and Pack/Joseph/Cleveland all shrank like violets.

3) On the positive side, Nwoko looks better at this point in the season than I expected him to...I think he's gonna give us more minutes going forward, and not just because Omier has foul trouble every time the ball gets tipped. George and Watson also probably were more effective in their limited minutes compared to Pack/Joseph in their minutes - which doesn't need to be the norm of course, but good to see George/Watson not be scared of the moment/environment.

4) The last 2 minutes of the first half bled into the 2nd half and we never recovered. Pretty simple.

5) Kentucky is rounding into form. They looked good at every position. Even places where I thought we might have an advantage (Omier vs Mitchell, Poplar vs Edwards/Dillingham), they at least played pretty even. BUT - I told my coworkers/friends who are UK fans this...shooting 60% from the field and 43% from 3pt land isn't gonna continue. There will be regression back to the mean on both of those numbers.

6) Reed Sheppard is a stud - best player on the court last night hands down. He'll be a lottery pick as soon as he decides he wants to go. He won't be the 1st overall pick, but some team is gonna get him, and be very very happy ala the Lakers with Austin Reaves...who Sheppard (to me) probably projects as a slightly better version. Sheppard is a touch shorter at 6'3 but his game is so solid. We did him several favors by leaving him with wide open 3's and losing him off screens though. That was unacceptable.

7) Defensively, we have a problem on the perimeter. We cannot stop guards from the top of the key or wing who put their head down and go to the bucket aggressively. Omier got neutralized by having to stay home more due to Mitchell/Burks playing well and him being in foul trouble, so no bucket protector meant all those guards got to the front of the rim with EASE last night. Anytime they wanted it.

8) This won't be popular to say, but Pack quit early. There was an early 1st half drive where he went baseline, tried to get a reverse to go, and he basically got it blocked back off of him so hard the ball actually almost went in. After that - he stopped attacking. That's poor from a player as good as Pack. When he realized he couldn't out-quick Reeves and he was at the size disadvantage, he stopped trying to attack. He kept getting cut off anytime he wanted the step back, and even when he did shoot from 3 he was not himself. 0-3 from 3 for Pack isn't going to lead us to victory in any game ever.

My last word on this game before I mentally put it to bed - flush it. Watch the tape and learn from it, but flush it and use it to get better for the rest of the year. We didn't expect a blowout at all of these proportions, but the important thing is to learn the lessons now that will become useful to us in March/April.

I was there also and pretty much agree with everything you said. There is a buzz around here this year with Kentucky fans that i haven't seen in a while, and rightfully so. I was wrong about Reed Sheppard. That kid is for real and may very well be the piece that Calipari and Kentucky have been missing the last few years. ...kid is smart. Thankfully my coworkers took it easy on me this morning

 

[hotshot]

I think Joseph was 2/2 finishing inside last night. He missed two 3’s and I believe a midrange J.

Pack is a problem that needs to be figured out because his personal interests may not align with the team interests with respect to his role.

You're right about Joseph last night. Glad to see that. He can def get to the rack. He's big and strong enough. In the past, tho, too often he seemed to just lack that last athletic body contortion that Wong had that allowed him to put the ball in the hole. It's tough under there!

 

[JackMcClinton89]

I agree with the consensus posted so far here:

1.) CBB is a marathon not a sprint, and a true road loss (even a blowout one) in November does not make or break a season
2.) UK played really well last night and is probably a contender... we probably still lose if they played average, but we wouldn't have lost by 20+.
3.) The two biggest concerns going forward (which many of us identified even before this game) are the lack of big man depth (since this won't be the last game Norchad gets in foul trouble this year), and Pack's inability to effectively play PG.

I think the second one is easier to at least partially solve, with Bensley running primary point guard, and possibly George occasionally running it for a change of pace, and letting Pack be that secondary ball-handler or off-ball guard where he is more effective.
Unfortunately the big man depth issue is a function of the roster (it was also an issue last year) and thus is much harder to fix. Casey still seems lost, and Nwoko is very raw and the game seems too fast for him at the moment (but I have not lost hope he could be a piece at some point).

The one positive from the game is that George/Watson looked like players that could actually contribute, and fortunately given their sizes and skillsets they can slide in at a lot of positions (George 1-3 and Watson 2-4).

 

[AmherstCane]

I agree with the consensus posted so far here:

1.) CBB is a marathon not a sprint, and a true road loss (even a blowout one) in November does not make or break a season
2.) UK played really well last night and is probably a contender... we probably still lose if they played average, but we wouldn't have lost by 20+.
3.) The two biggest concerns going forward (which many of us identified even before this game) are the lack of big man depth (since this won't be the last game Norchad gets in foul trouble this year), and Pack's inability to effectively play PG.

I think the second one is easier to at least partially solve, with Bensley running primary point guard, and possibly George occasionally running it for a change of pace, and letting Pack be that secondary ball-handler or off-ball guard where he is more effective.
Unfortunately the big man depth issue is a function of the roster (it was also an issue last year) and thus is much harder to fix. Casey still seems lost, and Nwoko is very raw and the game seems too fast for him at the moment (but I have not lost hope he could be a piece at some point).

The one positive from the game is that George/Watson looked like players that could actually contribute, and fortunately given their sizes and skillsets they can slide in at a lot of positions (George 1-3 and Watson 2-4).

Nwoko was looking pretty darn decent by midway through the second half.

We always knew that he needed to turn the corner for us to be more than one Omier foul away from oblivion.

As miserable as the game was, Watson, George, and even Nwoko (as the game wore on) were huge positives.

Now L and his staff have to go back to the lab to figure out how to fit the pieces together.

 

[hoops156]

I don’t know if you meant to leave Cleveland off or forgot but he absolutely is an elite athlete.

It’s hard to make these judgments because there’s so much cross contamination. When the ball doesn’t move guys look less athletic and less skilled. When there’s confusion or frustration on the defensive end guys look slow.

Last night was a perfect storm type of situation. Foul trouble caused discontinuity, shots not falling caused frustration and pressing… we didn’t move well offensively or defensively, Omier tried to do too much… just a big Charlie Foxtrot all around.

This team is the same team we thought it was going into the game - getting run off the floor was always a possibility with a team that plays as fast and hot as they have the ability to play.

Wong and Miller would not have helped because more iso would not have impacted the outcome in any meaningful way.

For us to hit our ceiling the ball needs to move on offense and we need to nail our defensive rotations and play with extreme effort and energy. We didn’t do either last night and they hit open and contested shots and played fast and loose.

i have not been impressed with Omiers offensive game this year. he needs to start taking the midrange to foul line jump shot. itll open up a lot more for us imo on top of less turnovers when hes trying to handle the ball and take on three defenders w a power move

 

[hotshot]

Nwoko was looking pretty darn decent by midway through the second half.

We always knew that he needed to turn the corner for us to be more than one Omier foul away from oblivion.

As miserable as the game was, Watson, George, and even Nwoko (as the game wore on) were huge positives.

Now L and his staff have to go back to the lab to figure out how to fit the pieces together.

Excellent takes. Especially the bolded one.

Maryland, which ended up to be a very mediocre team, rained three balls on us last year about this time, and won handily on a heutral court. Kentucky at home was a MUCH harder task.

 

[AmherstCane]

i have not been impressed with Omiers offensive game this year. he needs to start taking the midrange to foul line jump shot. itll open up a lot more for us imo on top of less turnovers when hes trying to handle the ball and take on three defenders w a power move

Omier tried to do too much last night and it hurt the team. He notched 20 so that is impressive on its own… but he needed to pass out of the post when they collapsed on him.

His ability to drive and score in isolation is a HUGE advantage with the spacing of our offense… but he can’t do what he did last night and just try to power through 2-3 defenders in the restricted area.

Hero ball is this team’s kryptonite.

 

[JackMcClinton89]

Omier tried to do too much last night and it hurt the team. He notched 20 so that is impressive on its own… but he needed to pass out of the post when they collapsed on him.

His ability to drive and score in isolation is a HUGE advantage with the spacing of our offense… but he can’t do what he did last night and just try to power through 2-3 defenders in the restricted area.

Hero ball is this team’s kryptonite.

100% agree, he is more skilled than a pure "lob" catcher offensive rebound putbacking type big (think Deandre Jordan) but he tries to force it too much on offense some times, and even ends up with 1-2 offensive fouls a game which we can't afford.

 

[skyman]

Omier tried to do too much last night and it hurt the team. He notched 20 so that is impressive on its own… but he needed to pass out of the post when they collapsed on him.

His ability to drive and score in isolation is a HUGE advantage with the spacing of our offense… but he can’t do what he did last night and just try to power through 2-3 defenders in the restricted area.

Hero ball is this team’s kryptonite.

Coach L mentioned this also in his presser in regards to hero ball and trying to play to get numbers.. If you have 4 shooters on court and are surrounded by defenders, someone should be open, swing the ball til you find it.. He gets tunnel vision and uk raked the ball out a few times also

 

[jkdood]

Coach L mentioned this also in his presser in regards to hero ball and trying to play to get numbers.. If you have 4 shooters on court and are surrounded by defenders, someone should be open, swing the ball til you find it.. He gets tunnel vision and uk raked the ball out a few times also

Cleveland, arguably at the top of his game most of this season thus far, played 27 minutes last night and took only 3 shots ( made 2 incl 1 for 1 from 3). I guess much has been addressed in the above posts, but I daresay something is very wrong with the offensive effort that saw him get free or fed only this amount. OFC if others are steaming hot, so be it, but that was far from the case most of the game.

 

[uba777]

Most of Miami's games this year have been comfortable in the second half. Again, people run to these narratives, ignoring basic logic. KSU wasn't going to roll over and die, they kept coming and Miami kept going on runs to keep them at bay. How is that not being a second half team? A bad second half team would have completely blown that lead. Also keep in mind, Miami is one of the better FT shooting teams in the country, that usually comes in handy late in games.

Man we had a 20+ point lead cut down to single digits! The narrative is we sucked in the 2nd half of the last 2 games, sugarcoat it however you want!

 

[Canedude08]

Man we had a 20+ point lead cut down to single digits! The narrative is we sucked in the 2nd half of the last 2 games, sugarcoat it however you want!

Tell me you didn't read anything I wrote without telling me. You really think that teams are just going to roll over and die? It's basketball, a game of runs, all it takes is for you to have a 2 minute spurt where you aren't scoring, and a 20 point lead can be cut in half, if not worse.

 

[uba777]

Tell me you didn't read anything I wrote without telling me. You really think that teams are just going to roll over and die? It's basketball, a game of runs, all it takes is for you to have a 2 minute spurt where you aren't scoring, and a 20 point lead can be cut in half, if not worse.

Look at it how ever you want, facts are facts! S I guess we just “rolled over and died” last night!
‘

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Now we know how valuable Jordan Miller really was for miami. Cleveland isn't close to the player Miller was for us last year especially against good competition.

JFC, he had one bad game. So did Pack and Joseph.

 

[rayray]

i haven't read this whole thread so my apologies if I'm repeating points already made

I think some of the defensive issues can be cleaned up as this group plays more -- I still think there is more defensive potential in this rotation than in previous years.

the thing that really concerned me is that Pack was able to get away with floating through games last year because Wong had no issues commanding the ball and running the offense. Pack could not show up for 35 minutes and then bomb a handful of threes at the end and walk away the hero and it more or less worked because Wong and Miller were around to carry the team before that. obviously, that doesn't exist anymore -- Pack is the only guard w/ juice on this team and he needs to play like that for 40 minutes. he needs to carry a burden that, frankly, I think he has shirked for much of his career. my guess is that his personality and approach to the game can't be changed, so my question is whether Cleveland can become empowered enough to take control of the offense as Pack, um, finds his footing throughout the game. I think Omier and Poplar can pitch in, obviously, but if Pack and Cleveland aren't going to lead this team the chance of an early loss in the tourney feels pretty high. you just can't get through the tournament without ball handlers who are willing to take the bull by the horns, so to speak.

 

[AmherstCane]

i haven't read this whole thread so my apologies if I'm repeating points already made

I think some of the defensive issues can be cleaned up as this group plays more -- I still think there is more defensive potential in this rotation than in previous years.

the thing that really concerned me is that Pack was able to get away with floating through games last year because Wong had no issues commanding the ball and running the offense. Pack could not show up for 35 minutes and then bomb a handful of threes at the end and walk away the hero and it more or less worked because Wong and Miller were around to carry the team before that. obviously, that doesn't exist anymore -- Pack is the only guard w/ juice on this team and he needs to play like that for 40 minutes. he needs to carry a burden that, frankly, I think he has shirked for much of his career. my guess is that his personality and approach to the game can't be changed, so my question is whether Cleveland can become empowered enough to take control of the offense as Pack, um, finds his footing throughout the game. I think Omier and Poplar can pitch in, obviously, but if Pack and Cleveland aren't going to lead this team the chance of an early loss in the tourney feels pretty high. you just can't get through the tournament without ball handlers who are willing to take the bull by the horns, so to speak.

It might be Cleveland, it might be Bensley. Remote crazy outside possibility it could be Watson or George as the season goes on.

Maybe I’m biased because I’ve always been a Watson fanboy… but he has looked really good. His defense and offensive efficiency has been near phenomenal so far this year, imo.

 

[Trav]

I was there in person and I probably need to go back and watch the TV replay when I get time...but a few things very simply put:

1) Omier/Poplar showed up and played well considering the moment and the workload they were basically forced to handle.

2) #1 being said...Omier/Poplar shouldn't have to carry the load like they did - Pack/Joseph got outplayed at the guard spots TERRIBLY, and for as great of an athlete and former 5* as Cleveland is, he disppeared as well. Rupp is a difficult place to play, and Pack/Joseph/Cleveland all shrank like violets.

3) On the positive side, Nwoko looks better at this point in the season than I expected him to...I think he's gonna give us more minutes going forward, and not just because Omier has foul trouble every time the ball gets tipped. George and Watson also probably were more effective in their limited minutes compared to Pack/Joseph in their minutes - which doesn't need to be the norm of course, but good to see George/Watson not be scared of the moment/environment.

4) The last 2 minutes of the first half bled into the 2nd half and we never recovered. Pretty simple.

5) Kentucky is rounding into form. They looked good at every position. Even places where I thought we might have an advantage (Omier vs Mitchell, Poplar vs Edwards/Dillingham), they at least played pretty even. BUT - I told my coworkers/friends who are UK fans this...shooting 60% from the field and 43% from 3pt land isn't gonna continue. There will be regression back to the mean on both of those numbers.

6) Reed Sheppard is a stud - best player on the court last night hands down. He'll be a lottery pick as soon as he decides he wants to go. He won't be the 1st overall pick, but some team is gonna get him, and be very very happy ala the Lakers with Austin Reaves...who Sheppard (to me) probably projects as a slightly better version. Sheppard is a touch shorter at 6'3 but his game is so solid. We did him several favors by leaving him with wide open 3's and losing him off screens though. That was unacceptable.

7) Defensively, we have a problem on the perimeter. We cannot stop guards from the top of the key or wing who put their head down and go to the bucket aggressively. Omier got neutralized by having to stay home more due to Mitchell/Burks playing well and him being in foul trouble, so no bucket protector meant all those guards got to the front of the rim with EASE last night. Anytime they wanted it.

8) This won't be popular to say, but Pack quit early. There was an early 1st half drive where he went baseline, tried to get a reverse to go, and he basically got it blocked back off of him so hard the ball actually almost went in. After that - he stopped attacking. That's poor from a player as good as Pack. When he realized he couldn't out-quick Reeves and he was at the size disadvantage, he stopped trying to attack. He kept getting cut off anytime he wanted the step back, and even when he did shoot from 3 he was not himself. 0-3 from 3 for Pack isn't going to lead us to victory in any game ever.

My last word on this game before I mentally put it to bed - flush it. Watch the tape and learn from it, but flush it and use it to get better for the rest of the year. We didn't expect a blowout at all of these proportions, but the important thing is to learn the lessons now that will become useful to us in March/April.

Pack has led us to lots of huge victories including in the Tournament last year. He had a bad game. He'll bounce back.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

We need to make major adjustments.

That's not overreacting to 1 game. Even in our first 5 games, we weren't playing that well. We were just shooting well.

+24 from 3 vs KSU and won by 8. Shot >60% from 3 vs FIU and won by 6. UCF game was competitive into the last 10 minutes, and UCF just lost at home to Stetson.

I think we'll figure it out and get to the 2nd weekend. But we need to make some changes. We don't have enough shot creators on offense as usual, and defensively our starters aren't big enough.

 

[AmherstCane]

Pack has led us to lots of huge victories including in the Tournament last year. He had a bad game. He'll bounce back.

Sure but he’s right there is a structural problem. Pack has not turned the corner as a penetrator. I don’t see the team hitting their ceiling with Pack at the 1… of course I don’t really know what I’m talking about at this level and I trust L and his staff to make the right moves… but that’s what I’m seeing currently.

 

[skyman]

Sure but he’s right there is a structural problem. Pack has not turned the corner as a penetrator. I don’t see the team hitting their ceiling with Pack at the 1… of course I don’t really know what I’m talking about at this level and I trust L and his staff to make the right moves… but that’s what I’m seeing currently.

I think even if it was because of foul trouble, it was a blessing, and it might mean Benz needs to hit the bench, they need to get more reps with George running the show, he actually has handle (I know some have said it doesnt matter but we now see it does), has ++ size and just needs reps to get comfortable getting players the ball in their spots.. Like I been mentioning I dont see Pack or Benz doing it with a set defense geared to stop them, they are not explosive or big enough to drive into teeth of defense without turnovers or rejections happening at a rapid rate..

Even if we stumbled into it with foul trouble that was the best thing I saw because I can see the issues from game 1. I do like that Wooga didnt seem like he didnt belong compared to when we played Uconn, but he is more of a gunner it seems, we need a playmaker. Omier is not that guy, he is bull in china shop with horse blinders on when he is driving to hoop..

Mind you it might sound critical but this is not for random game in january against NCST or clemson, many have said we are a championship team so I am only pressing these issues against teams we have run into in tourney who were talented (Kansas, Uconn, Texas, Houston, etc.) and how we matchup in those situations.