Key Factor Being Overlooked in the QB Race

[Deep End]

I don't think it's that hard of a decision. DCs who become new HCs generally choose the most mobile QB.

Perry runs a 4.86 40
Tate runs a 4.59 40

Idea is that the team is led by the defense, and QBs job is to give the D time to rest and not turn ball over. QBs who can run drive DCs crazy. TDs are gravy, but a winning stat line is

15/23
2 TDs , 0 INTs
190 yards passing
60 yards rushing

A QB doesn't have to be DeShaun Watson to put up those types of numbers. What matters is efficiency and trust that the QB will precisely execute the gameplan. Perry went off script last year, and Diaz is fully aware of that (he was there, after all).

Martell is likely the starter unless he totally flops the rest of the offseason.

Interesting post.

I agree that Martell's the default starter unless he flops. The coaches may not have decided that but it's a vibe I get, just a gut hunch based on what's been written.

I will disagree on the flat out speed thing. Elusiveness and the ability to read a pocket as it develops, or otherwise collapses, is by far and away more important than top-end speed tho.

The most important thing for a QB is to be able to pass the ball, which means putting it on the money as often as possible. Martell seems to be inconsistent doing this and it clearly isn't his forte. It is Williams' forte, apparently, as the reports on him almost always state that his passes are right on the money, and from a report on the recent practices sent by a friend I read this again today.

A fast "run prone" QB can actually be a detriment in this way. Josh Allen is one type in the NFL, he relies way to much on his running ability and often takes off long before he has to, or misses open receivers and runs instead over-relying on running, because he can. I would strongly suggest that this is a significant risk with Martell.

So while I believe that the competition is Martell's to lose, and while I'm not practice/camp junkie by any measure, I'd rather have the best pure passer in there.

Dorsey had -79 yards rushing at The U, on 59 carries, and a mere 2 rushing TDs, and I'd take him in a NY second over any on the roster now. Unless there's something wrong with Williams' head/attitude, which I haven't read about, I'd strongly suggest that he's the best option to beat anyone. If we have to rely on a running QB, AHEM, Rozier, then we're probably in trouble to begin with. I wouldn't trade an iota of passing ability and pocket/field awareness for any rushing ability whatsoever.

Put the best pure passer on the team in there and let him go. Although in agreeing with you on Martell, I'm not sure that's going to happen. I would love to have heard the conversation and sales pitch involved in getting Martell here. But IMO he's overrated, perhaps not severely, but overrated nonetheless.

so the kid who didnt transferred Jarren williams is a lazy malcontent
yet the kid who left a program to come here is a savior who can be trusted. haha

Good stuff! LOL

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

You make some great points which all figure into the complicated equation of who will start but when I put myself in Manny's shoes, I turn to Enos and ask " Who gives us the best chance to beat the Gators week 1 ?" That's who starts.

Lethal simplicity

 

[Tad Footeball]

The OP's hypothesis fails when one considers that Peyton Matochampion has already been named the starter and that the only reason he's in Miami is because he was involved in so much off the field **** in Texas that he knew he'd be dead by August 1 if he stayed within 1500 miles of Dallas and 2000 miles of Houston. Weeeee back. We got a stone cold killer takin' snaps under center, gentlemen!

 

[DadeBaby]

I don't think it's that hard of a decision. DCs who become new HCs generally choose the most mobile QB.

Perry runs a 4.86 40
Tate runs a 4.59 40

Idea is that the team is led by the defense, and QBs job is to give the D time to rest and not turn ball over. QBs who can run drive DCs crazy. TDs are gravy, but a winning stat line is

15/23
2 TDs , 0 INTs
190 yards passing
60 yards rushing

A QB doesn't have to be DeShaun Watson to put up those types of numbers. What matters is efficiency and trust that the QB will precisely execute the gameplan. Perry went off script last year, and Diaz is fully aware of that (he was there, after all).

Martell is likely the starter unless he totally flops the rest of the offseason.

I think this would really be true about the 40 yard dash. If we had mediocre Skill Players on offense. Enos has too many weapons of mass destruction to justify this thought process.
It will only come down who is playing at a higher level from the the helmet and arm. So I do agree that, he who executes the best is the Man.
Personally I don’t want to see us trot out a lame duck passer. Against top level dbs, we will need to get the ball down the field in tight windows and force defenses on their heels.
We will have a underwhelming season if we constantly have 8 in the box,with dbs sitting on routes.

 

[252cane]

I don't think it's that hard of a decision. DCs who become new HCs generally choose the most mobile QB.

Perry runs a 4.86 40
Tate runs a 4.59 40

Idea is that the team is led by the defense, and QBs job is to give the D time to rest and not turn ball over. QBs who can run drive DCs crazy. TDs are gravy, but a winning stat line is

15/23
2 TDs , 0 INTs
190 yards passing
60 yards rushing

A QB doesn't have to be DeShaun Watson to put up those types of numbers. What matters is efficiency and trust that the QB will precisely execute the gameplan. Perry went off script last year, and Diaz is fully aware of that (he was there, after all).

Martell is likely the starter unless he totally flops the rest of the offseason.

Where you get those 40s from? From what i seen tate doesn't run a 4.59. I seen a 4.72 for him. But he had a elite short shuttle time with 3.96.

 

[flcanesfan]

so you are basically saying we should put our trust into the hands of a guy who OSU didnt feel was good enough to play QB there? lol

you don't seem like you understand football very well so I will break it down slowly and give you a step by step guide so you can keep up.

1. In Football most offenses have what you call Schemes
2. Every scheme works best with a certain type of player and athlete (an example of this would be the New England Patriots which routinely takes average players on one team and turns them into pro bowl type players on their team) I'm sure you probably think this is magic or some kind of voodoo but in reality it's simply getting the right players to fit the right scheme.
3. Some coaches are smart enough to realize what players fit a scheme and which ones don't. Typically those coaches will then acquire talent that fits their scheme and move on from those that don't
4. Some coaches are also smart enough to let good players go that wont be a good fit in their system so they can open up more slots for players that do fit their system

At this point you might be a bit puzzled and confused but if you read points 1-4 over and over again for a couple of weeks it should sink in.

I hope this helps you... In the future I will try to draw out my explanations for you in Crayon and upload them as a png file for you to better comprehend what I'm saying but at the moment I just don't have the time to do it.

 

[brock]

Where you get those 40s from? From what i seen tate doesn't run a 4.59. I seen a 4.72 for him. But he had a elite short shuttle time with 3.96.

Yeah haven’t seen a 40 time of 4.59, but he’s certainly fast enough to break some runs due to his elite quickness within the first 20 yards or so

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Yeah haven’t seen a 40 time of 4.59, but he’s certainly fast enough to break some runs due to his elite quickness within the first 20 yards or so

TATE MARTELL's Football Recruiting Profile

Evaluate TATE MARTELL's football recruiting profile. Learn how this Bishop Gorman Preparatory School student is connecting with coaches in NV and nationwide.

www.ncsasports.org

Maybe hand timed. Doesn't say.

 

[nycane]

you don't seem like you understand football very well so I will break it down slowly and give you a step by step guide so you can keep up.

1. In Football most offenses have what you call Schemes
2. Every scheme works best with a certain type of player and athlete (an example of this would be the New England Patriots which routinely takes average players on one team and turns them into pro bowl type players on their team) I'm sure you probably think this is magic or some kind of voodoo but in reality it's simply getting the right players to fit the right scheme.
3. Some coaches are smart enough to realize what players fit a scheme and which ones don't. Typically those coaches will then acquire talent that fits their scheme and move on from those that don't
4. Some coaches are also smart enough to let good players go that wont be a good fit in their system so they can open up more slots for players that do fit their system

At this point you might be a bit puzzled and confused but if you read points 1-4 over and over again for a couple of weeks it should sink in.

I hope this helps you... In the future I will try to draw out my explanations for you in Crayon and upload them as a png file for you to better comprehend what I'm saying but at the moment I just don't have the time to do it.

he was recruited by them. also, i have seen his tape and in HS and at OSU he throws crappy passes and looks like a midget playing sandlot ball. Dont act all tough with me. Just because you want your son tate to be the starter, you dont have to be a jerk.

 

[GojiraCane]

I want to see what the other two who lose the battle do afterwards. Does anyone seek transfer? Martel has already transferred once and Williams flirted with transferring out after a redshirt year. Does Perry say **** it and go back to clowning? With the battle being this close it will likely go into the season as well (unless the winner lights it up) so who continues to work and stays ready for their shot?

Here’s my guess:

If Perry Wins: Tate stays, Jarren transfers
If Jarren Wins: Tate stays, Perry transfers
If Tate Wins: Perry and Jarren both transfer

 

[flcanesfan]

he was recruited by them. also, i have seen his tape and in HS and at OSU he throws crappy passes and looks like a midget playing sandlot ball. Dont act all tough with me. Just because you want your son tate to be the starter, you dont have to be a jerk.

Ohio State has a new head coach that didn’t recruit Tate so the school doesn’t matter. One of the best talent evaluators in Football is Urban Myer and he recruited Tate so even if he doesn’t throw the best spiral he does seem to hit his targets and Urban didn’t see his spiral as an issue either.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

The most important thing for a QB is to be able to pass the ball

Not really. The most important thing is a qb who keeps the chains moving, whether by passing or running. Mike Vick wasn't even a 59% passer in his college career and it's well known that the OC essentially had to eliminate half the field for him as Vick was terrible at reading a defense. He was just so much more athletic than the rest of the players that he could pick up a first down with his legs at will.

In 2017, Malik Rosier threw nearly 415 passes. The most Vick ever threw in a season was 179. As a matter of fact, in the two years Vick played QB at VT, he only threw 332 passes. In 2000 he threw 9 TDs, 7 INTs with a 54.2% completion percentage. That's absolutely horrendous. Yet VT finished 11-1.

And no, for those lacking reading comprehension, I'm not comparing Martell to Vick. I'm pointing out that it didn't really matter that Vick was **** poor at passing the ball (which some say is the most important thing for a QB), he moved the chains and VT nearly went undefeated.

 

[SWFLSWAGG17]

For the life of me with the new redshirt rules I dont know why we didnt get Jarren ANY snaps last year, especially late in season

Because he was fat, lazy & totally checked out because of his position on the depth chart. Not hating, that's the truth.

 

[DC1986]

Here’s my guess:

If Perry Wins: Tate stays, Jarren transfers
If Jarren Wins: Tate stays, Perry transfers
If Tate Wins: Perry and Jarren both transfer

I think Matocha wins and the other 3 transfer.

 

[Calvin]

At the end of the day, I unfortunately don’t expect any of the 3 to separate themselves. As such, I expect the decision of who starts game 1 will be based on preventing transfers.

Those days are done and over with for now, this staff is not worried about qb transfers at this juncture, that'll be a full display as part of the weeding out process when coach diaz refers "we'll find out who the Miami guys are" coach diaz was born and raised here, he knows who and what he's looking at, like i said last year when people were crying cause i said let jw's crybaby *** leave, and run back to kentucky, he didnt and does not reflect what a True Hurricane is, he has time to make up for it though, but as of now in my book he's still the scrub mentality category when it comes to football.

 

[SonsofSoul]

Questions for OP
Did Manny say something to the effect that everyone on the team starts with a clean slate after he took over

Please list what any QB has done to lose the trust since Manny took over.

.Not saying you ,are,wrong but I think Mannys word when he took over can be trusted.

I do not care who wins but just clarifying what I thought to be the case when he took over

It is what Manny "said" which hopefully encouraged competition ( a good thing IMHO). However, what a smart coach ultimately does is likely based on every possible observation, experience and piece of information he has available (reading our posts doesn't likely count). He won't likely forget who **** the bed in the past when it comes time to evaluate the QBs and make a decision on the starter. Not saying the past will weigh heavily over what the QBs have done since the curtain opened on TNM, but I don't think anything is forgotten. They all have to accept the consequences of what they did or didn't do in the past, as well as what they've done or haven't done since this off-season began. I suspect Manny hasn't forgotten anything.

 

[Calvin]

There is one factor I think a lot of us have been overlooking in this QB race, and that's the trust factor. Whoever ends up being our starting QB is going to be the face of this team. They're going to be the leader, the guy whom the coaches are literally giving the keys to, and ultimately the single most important playmaker that'll determine whether we succeed or flounder. That's a big weight for any player, especially those with a less consistent record off the field.

In looking at this factor, it's clear that N'Kosi Perry has had a lot of groundwork to make up. Before Manny became HC, by all accounts, N'Kosi was clowning around here for two years. He built up a massive trust deficit with the last coaching staff and inherited that deficit with the new one. Make no mistake, N'Kosi has made a good effort to use this clean slate to start anew, and he hasn't caused any trouble off the field and by all accounts is working much harder.

I'm not an insider, or guy with sources, but I do have a few friends that were plugged into UM's greek life and party scene over the past two years. N'Kosi was a regular, to say the least, and we all know his off the fieldwork ethic and conduct wasn't great until El Jefe established a new order. All college students party, but as a potential starting QB for the Canes, N'Kosi didn't hold himself to the higher standard needed. N'Kosi's made a ton of progress on and off the field, and he could very well be our starter on 8/24, but until he consistently proves otherwise there's always going to be that fear that he'll revert to bad conduct. He has to put in an extra level of work to overcome that trust deficit he built over two years. Considering talent, if N'Kosi can put it all together, he'll be deadly. Winning best QB of spring is a great start.

Jarren William's doesn't have the same off the field history as N'Kosi. While he was suspended last year, we all know that he didn't have a chance to show anything on the field. That kills a QB's confidence. No matter how bad Malik or N'Kosi played, or how well he did in practice, he knew he didn't have a shot to start regardless. At that point, there was no incentive to practice hard, prepare for games, or meet a high standard of work. El Jefe's clean slate has definitely helped him as well, as we know his conditioning's gotten better and he had a good spring. He doesn't have the trust deficit N'Kosi has, which is a major bonus for him in this QB competition.

Then there's Tate. By all accounts, he hasn't had any off the field issues that we know about. Of all the QB's, per the insiders here, on twitter, and on other sites, he's also the QB that put in the most work post-spring (weight room, film, working on his mechanics, etc.). When it comes to meeting expectations and the level of conduct expected of a UM starting QB, he fits the bill. He also has a bit of experience and exposure when it comes to the media, as he's got 148,000 followers on Twitter and 222,000 followers on Instagram. With all of his hype and pedigree from high school to now, he's never been a clown, gotten in trouble, or been suspended. That's a huge boon for his chances to be our long term starting QB. Manny won't have to worry about him doing something stupid if the team starts rolling.

Overall, Tate is in the best position when it comes to the trust factor. Jarren has a clean slate and had minimal bad conduct last year, so he isn't in a bad spot as well. N'Kosi did have a trust deficit pre-Manny, but he's done a lot of work to change that storyline and he should be commended for it. Nevertheless, he needs to keep that consistency off the field because a few months of doing what you're supposed to does not entirely erase two bad years. Ultimately, our starting QB on 8/24 is going to be the guy that gives our offense the best chance to succeed against the gators. Nevertheless, especially in the long term, it's vital to our staff that our QB has the poise, maturity, and off the field work ethic to be the next starting QB at the U.

Good analysis, but it's obvious who the coaches know and want to start and its not tate. These next 2 weeks is now time for the maximum push to try and get the greatness they see outta of #5, this is why he's starting out #3 on the depth chart. I will say this tho, the one thing that has helped tate, is when you hear the coaches say how "seamlessly he's fit into the locker room" because that does give him a chance at the team listening to em. But let's be real, and like i said earlier this year when you had so called UM fans acting Gold diggers as soon as tate came, they hopping on his bandwagon, and trying to put it out their that perry was probably going to transfer, it was actually embarrassing to see these so called UM fan salivating over tate. So when i said the only True Hurricane we got at qb is N'kosi, he helped us to beat Fsu, never heard him or his name mentioned in or attached to transfer rumors, the Gold diggin fans were the ones trying to put that out their, so ill say it again now, we had jw15 trying to hold coach richt & co. hostage by threatening to transfer, my response was by, cause that''s unbecoming of a True Hurricane, than you got transfer tate coming in running from competition, so technically he's already a loser, and perry's mindset and competitive nature is like,im not letting know guy transfer in here and take my spot, so he came out of the spring with the lead. I cant root for the transfer wanna be in jw15 or transfer tate being the starter, the players already respect #5, but ill say what i said about the other 2 qb's, the only way they'll earn my respect, either one of them will have to do a whole lot of winning on the big stage to get out of the scrub status in my book, and keep in mind perry is the most composed of the 3, which automatically gives the coaches a sense of calm, and coach diaz knows how hard it is to win at or against Fsu, he witnessed what perry did first hand, that's his potential, coach diaz is trying to make that potential consistent, with that being said, may the best man win!

 

[RedPill Stepdad]

It is what Manny "said" which hopefully encouraged competition ( a good thing IMHO). However, what a smart coach ultimately does is likely based on every possible observation, experience and piece of information he has available (reading our posts doesn't likely count). He won't likely forget who **** the bed in the past when it comes time to evaluate the QBs and make a decision on the starter. Not saying the past will weigh heavily over what the QBs have done since the curtain opened on TNM, but I don't think anything is forgotten. They all have to accept the consequences of what they did or didn't do in the past, as well as what they've done or haven't done since this off-season began. I suspect Manny hasn't forgotten anything.

The whole clean slate thing is just like when u cheat on your GF. Yeah, she forgives u, but she doesn't forget, and everytime u leave the house she's going to have questions in the back of her mind.

Saying that, I don't think any of the QBs will do something stupid right now. What I'm more concerned about is when they have success and start feeling themselves.

 

[Bird4um]

Here’s my guess:

If Perry Wins: Tate stays, Jarren transfers
If Jarren Wins: Tate stays, Perry transfers
If Tate Wins: Perry and Jarren both transfer

I can see this

 

[S.CarolinaCane]

There is one factor I think a lot of us have been overlooking in this QB race, and that's the trust factor. Whoever ends up being our starting QB is going to be the face of this team. They're going to be the leader, the guy whom the coaches are literally giving the keys to, and ultimately the single most important playmaker that'll determine whether we succeed or flounder. That's a big weight for any player, especially those with a less consistent record off the field.

In looking at this factor, it's clear that N'Kosi Perry has had a lot of groundwork to make up. Before Manny became HC, by all accounts, N'Kosi was clowning around here for two years. He built up a massive trust deficit with the last coaching staff and inherited that deficit with the new one. Make no mistake, N'Kosi has made a good effort to use this clean slate to start anew, and he hasn't caused any trouble off the field and by all accounts is working much harder.

I'm not an insider, or guy with sources, but I do have a few friends that were plugged into UM's greek life and party scene over the past two years. N'Kosi was a regular, to say the least, and we all know his off the fieldwork ethic and conduct wasn't great until El Jefe established a new order. All college students party, but as a potential starting QB for the Canes, N'Kosi didn't hold himself to the higher standard needed. N'Kosi's made a ton of progress on and off the field, and he could very well be our starter on 8/24, but until he consistently proves otherwise there's always going to be that fear that he'll revert to bad conduct. He has to put in an extra level of work to overcome that trust deficit he built over two years. Considering talent, if N'Kosi can put it all together, he'll be deadly. Winning best QB of spring is a great start.

Jarren William's doesn't have the same off the field history as N'Kosi. While he was suspended last year, we all know that he didn't have a chance to show anything on the field. That kills a QB's confidence. No matter how bad Malik or N'Kosi played, or how well he did in practice, he knew he didn't have a shot to start regardless. At that point, there was no incentive to practice hard, prepare for games, or meet a high standard of work. El Jefe's clean slate has definitely helped him as well, as we know his conditioning's gotten better and he had a good spring. He doesn't have the trust deficit N'Kosi has, which is a major bonus for him in this QB competition.

Then there's Tate. By all accounts, he hasn't had any off the field issues that we know about. Of all the QB's, per the insiders here, on twitter, and on other sites, he's also the QB that put in the most work post-spring (weight room, film, working on his mechanics, etc.). When it comes to meeting expectations and the level of conduct expected of a UM starting QB, he fits the bill. He also has a bit of experience and exposure when it comes to the media, as he's got 148,000 followers on Twitter and 222,000 followers on Instagram. With all of his hype and pedigree from high school to now, he's never been a clown, gotten in trouble, or been suspended. That's a huge boon for his chances to be our long term starting QB. Manny won't have to worry about him doing something stupid if the team starts rolling.

Overall, Tate is in the best position when it comes to the trust factor. Jarren has a clean slate and had minimal bad conduct last year, so he isn't in a bad spot as well. N'Kosi did have a trust deficit pre-Manny, but he's done a lot of work to change that storyline and he should be commended for it. Nevertheless, he needs to keep that consistency off the field because a few months of doing what you're supposed to does not entirely erase two bad years. Ultimately, our starting QB on 8/24 is going to be the guy that gives our offense the best chance to succeed against the gators. Nevertheless, especially in the long term, it's vital to our staff that our QB has the poise, maturity, and off the field work ethic to be the next starting QB at the U.

Some college QBs are very disciplined and some are typical college jocks. It doesn't always define them as a player or leader.

What these guys do off the field is important especially if you can keep your nose clean, however if you're a BOSS on the field no one gives a **** if you like to have a little fun while in college.