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Jim Harbaugh on the most important position group

DTP said:
I’ll take an elite QB with an average line over an elite line with an average QB. Obviously would prefer both
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I don't disagree in premise but It's not that simple. Lots of other factors. Skill position, Defense, ST, Scheme, etc.

Caleb Williams vs Craig Krenzel/Greg McElroy.
 
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L A M P said:
I don't disagree in premise but It's not that simple. Lots of other factors. Skill position, Defense, ST, Scheme, etc.

Caleb Williams vs Craig Krenzel/Greg McElroy.
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There’s a ton of factors so it’s not just a black and white issue but in today’s game the QB is far more important than ever. Game managers don’t win championships anymore. Krenzel as 22 years ago and McElroy was 15 years ago. The game isn’t the same. There’s a reason Jim Harbaugh benched Cade McNamara for JJ McCarthy. One guy was a perfectly fine game manager and the other was a legit play maker who’s going to be a first round draft pick.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
An elite team around Mac Jones put him in the 1st round.

A good offensive line just made TVD un-draftable. QB matters above all.
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Also, let’s not pretend Mac Jones wasn’t an elite college QB. His numbers were better than Tua’s. Just because he’s not a good NFL QB doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great college quarterback. It’s not like he was just handing off 50 times a game.
 
One reason I think Mario will eventually find success here. It may not be anytime soon but I still believe he can get the job done.
 
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DTP said:
There’s a ton of factors so it’s not just a black and white issue but in today’s game the QB is far more important than ever. Game managers don’t win championships anymore. Krenzel as 22 years ago and McElroy was 15 years ago. The game isn’t the same. There’s a reason Jim Harbaugh benched Cade McNamara for JJ McCarthy. One guy was a perfectly fine game manager and the other was a legit play maker who’s going to be a first round draft pick.
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I could've just as easily said Stetson Bennett (he got much better 2nd title so I didn't). Several of the recent Bama teams (Jake Coker, Freshman Hurts). Not discrediting your point. Bold is true.

All I'm saying is most of these teams that have won the past 15 years have several things in common.. Dominant OL, great defenses (minus LSU), elite skill positions.. while QB play has been more sporadic.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
Miami just had a very good offensive line. How did that turn out? Oh yea ******* awful. You can’t win without a good enough QB. Period.
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It's not like he's saying it forms every other position. But reality is if you have a **** oline & a very good qb you'll destroy that qbs development. A qb depends on a line to have the time and the protection (physically and mentally)to know he can do what he's got to. It doesn't mean because you have a good oline a **** qb will be anything other than ****. He'll just be a **** qb with plenty of time to **** the bed...
 
DTP said:
Also, let’s not pretend Mac Jones wasn’t an elite college QB. His numbers were better than Tua’s. Just because he’s not a good NFL QB doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great college quarterback. It’s not like he was just handing off 50 times a game.
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He had everything at his disposal. But he still had to make the throws. And he did.
 
Brooklyndee said:
It's not like he's saying it forms every other position. But reality is if you have a **** oline & a very good qb you'll destroy that qbs development. A qb depends on a line to have the time and the protection (physically and mentally)to know he can do what he's got to. It doesn't mean because you have a good oline a **** qb will be anything other than ****. He'll just be a **** qb with plenty of time to **** the bed...
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He said it’s the most important position group and doesn’t depend on anyone else.

What matters is winning. If you want to win, you need a good enough QB. Thats the most important player and position on the team. It’s not close either.
 
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Brooklyndee said:
It's not like he's saying it forms every other position. But reality is if you have a **** oline & a very good qb you'll destroy that qbs development. A qb depends on a line to have the time and the protection (physically and mentally)to know he can do what he's got to. It doesn't mean because you have a good oline a **** qb will be anything other than ****. He'll just be a **** qb with plenty of time to **** the bed...
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the point is that an above average o-line will do the job good enough to get the qb to play at his highest level.

a **** o-line sinks everything, but a top tier o-line won't put it over the top more than an above average unit.

and o-line play is extremely dependent on factors like passing success, number matchups in run blocking, playcalling etc.
 
I’m not discounting what coach has to say, but he’s foolish to say OL is the most important group, & his results says as much.

From 2016 until 2021, UofM could argue they were one of the top producing OLs to the NFL. 7 offensive lineman had been drafted including Cesar Ruiz, Ben Bredeson, Mason Cole among others. From 2015-2020, Harbaugh’s teams were good, but as we know, ?marks started to arise. They were 49-22 during this stretch (.690).

Harbaugh’s QBs during this period:
2015: 10-3 (Rudock: 3000+ yrd passer on 64% completion)
2016: 10-3 (Speight: 2500+ yrd passer on 62% completion)
2017: 8-5 (Carousel of QBs: 2200+ total yrds on 53% completion)
2018: 10-3 (Patterson: 2600 yrd passer on 65% completion)
2019: 9-4 (Patterson: 3000+ yrd passer on 56% completion)
2020: 2-4 (Milroe: 1000+ yrd passer on 57% completion)

Summary: Despite having very good OLs during this phase of Harbaugh’s career at UofM, when he had QBs who could complete 60+% of their passes, he went 30-6 (.833). If his QBs were sub 60%, he went 19-13 (.594).

From 2021-23 Harbaugh went 40-3 (.930)
2021: 12-2 (McNamara: 2500+ passer on 64% completion)
2022-23: 28-1 (McCarthy: 5700+ passer on 68% completion)

Summary: This was Harbaugh’s best stretch of QB play, where guys were completing 64+% of their passes, & the results ensued.

I would argue if u have a world class QB despite ****** OL play, it will cover the flaws much more seamlessly than having an all world OL & ****** QB play.

I’m a Bears fan, I’m well versed in ****** QB play. (Siiiiiigh) I can unequivocally tell u despite us having years of sending OLman to the pro bowls, having guys like Cade McNown, Rex Grossman (although Rex’s best year was 2005), Mike Tomczak, Shane Matthews, Kordell Stewart, Kyle Orton (got **** imma bout to cry) made our team look way worst.
 
Rellyrell said:
I’m not discounting what coach has to say, but he’s foolish to say OL is the most important group, & his results says as much.

From 2016 until 2021, UofM could argue they were one of the top producing OLs to the NFL. 7 offensive lineman had been drafted including Cesar Ruiz, Ben Bredeson, Mason Cole among others. From 2015-2020, Harbaugh’s teams were good, but as we know, ?marks started to arise. They were 49-22 during this stretch (.690).

Harbaugh’s QBs during this period:
2015: 10-3 (Rudock: 3000+ yrd passer on 64% completion)
2016: 10-3 (Speight: 2500+ yrd passer on 62% completion)
2017: 8-5 (Carousel of QBs: 2200+ total yrds on 53% completion)
2018: 10-3 (Patterson: 2600 yrd passer on 65% completion)
2019: 9-4 (Patterson: 3000+ yrd passer on 56% completion)
2020: 2-4 (Milroe: 1000+ yrd passer on 57% completion)

Summary: Despite having very good OLs during this phase of Harbaugh’s career at UofM, when he had QBs who could complete 60+% of their passes, he went 30-6 (.833). If his QBs were sub 60%, he went 19-13 (.594).

From 2021-23 Harbaugh went 40-3 (.930)
2021: 12-2 (McNamara: 2500+ passer on 64% completion)
2022-23: 28-1 (McCarthy: 5700+ passer on 68% completion)

Summary: This was Harbaugh’s best stretch of QB play, where guys were completing 64+% of their passes, & the results ensued.

I would argue if u have a world class QB despite ****** OL play, it will cover the flaws much more seamlessly than having an all world OL & ****** QB play.

I’m a Bears fan, I’m well versed in ****** QB play. (Siiiiiigh) I can unequivocally tell u despite us having years of sending OLman to the pro bowls, having guys like Cade McNown, Rex Grossman (although Rex’s best year was 2005), Mike Tomczak, Shane Matthews, Kordell Stewart, Kyle Orton (got **** imma bout to cry) made our team look way worst.
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You don’t have to argue. Clemson and LSU have proven this point to the tune of 3 national titles in the last 8-9 years.
 
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DTP said:
Also, let’s not pretend Mac Jones wasn’t an elite college QB. His numbers were better than Tua’s. Just because he’s not a good NFL QB doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great college quarterback. It’s not like he was just handing off 50 times a game.
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This; I’m not sure why that’s so hard to understand. There’s plenty of elite college QBs who don’t translate well at the NFL, & on the flip side, there’s guys who looked pedestrian at the collegiate level & wound up being superstars at the next level.

The two are not mutually exclusive. To say an OL put Mac Jones into the 1st round is disingenuous at best, & a flat out lie at worst.
 
L A M P said:
I could've just as easily said Stetson Bennett (he got much better 2nd title so I didn't). Several of the recent Bama teams (Jake Coker, Freshman Hurts). Not discrediting your point. Bold is true.

All I'm saying is most of these teams that have won the past 15 years have several things in common.. Dominant OL, great defenses (minus LSU), elite skill positions.. while QB play has been more sporadic.
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I was going to say Stetson Bennett too. His first season was mediocre but Georgia didn’t really light it up on offense.
 
Everything is very important. But he said MOST important. He’s really not wrong. Lots of ways to skin a cat but what he’s saying is not incorrect.

QB is obviously massively important too. But our all-world new QB who everyone expects to break school records had a dreadful offensive line in front of him last year. And his team stunk.

I’m still of the opinion that the quarterback of a football team is the most important position in all of sports. But if you wanna tell me you think it’s OL, I won’t fight you. You don’t see very many good football teams at any level that don’t have good offensive lines. Can say the same about QB, too. But Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, etc etc. There are always exceptions. I don’t fault Mario and Harbaugh one bit for prioritizing the OL over just about anything else. It’s a prerequisite for a good football team.
 
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