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Jason Taylor?

fraggle

fraggle

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His notoriety is great, especially recruiting BUT is he a great coach? I thought we'd have many more sacks under his tutelage. Not an expert but for those in the know, is he a true asset based on what we've seen so far?
Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan and hope he is a driving force, just would like to see it in the games.
 
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Lol we have a new scheme and our DEs are getting held on every play this year. Our best DE has basically missed every game and even though Bain looks incredible he’s just a freshman. Harvey and Kelly look a million times better and Bain will be a freshman all-American if he stays healthy.

Our DEs have improved this year in setting the edge and not letting QBs scramble around them (big issue last year). DEs need to improve on on maintaining gap integrity when they stunt inside to prevent the QB from scrambling up the middle.

They’ve been great against the run and are playing more complimentary football for our LBs.

They’re also being asked to go out in coverage occasionally on passing downs and we have LB/CB/S blitzing instead to confuse the QB and OL which decreases their opportunities to get sacks.

While we haven’t had a ton of sacks I think our interceptions and good defense overall prove the scheme has made it hard for QBs to get on a rhythm and feel comfortable. Even without sacks, we’re creating a lot of pressure which affects throws and creates opportunities for picks and incompletions.

id day our DEs are playing great with occasional containment lapses when they stunt inside and allow the QB to pass them scrambling up the middle—which we'll hopefully address

Very impressed with the growth we’ve seen from a few of the guys too
 
JD4 said:
Lol we have a new scheme and our DEs are getting held on every play this year. Our best DE has basically missed every game and even though Bain looks incredible he’s just a freshman. Harvey and Kelly look a million times better and Bain will be a freshman all-American if he stays healthy.

Our DEs have improved this year in setting the edge and not letting QBs scramble around them (big issue last year). DEs need to improve on on maintaining gap integrity when they stunt inside to prevent the QB from scrambling up the middle.

They’ve been great against the run and are playing more complimentary football for our LBs.

They’re also being asked to go out in coverage occasionally on passing downs and we have LB/CB/S blitzing instead to confuse the QB and OL which decreases their opportunities to get sacks.

While we haven’t had a ton of sacks I think our interceptions and good defense overall prove the scheme has made it hard for QBs to get on a rhythm and feel comfortable. Even without sacks, we’re creating a lot of pressure which affects throws and creates opportunities for picks and incompletions.

id day our DEs are playing great with occasional containment lapses when they stunt inside and allow the QB to pass them scrambling up the middle—which we'll hopefully address

Very impressed with the growth we’ve seen from a few of the guys too
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Thank You, good points. As I said I'm not an expert and respect those who can point things out as you have that I've missed.
 
www.canesinsight.com

'23 Defensive pressure off the Edge and more

So, this started as a separate discussion offline. I thought we needed more pressure off the edge and hurrying the QB in '23. A solid point was made that we were Top 10 in sacks in '22. I admit my refusal to re-watch games the way I have in prior seasons, so my feeling about our lack of elite...
www.canesinsight.com www.canesinsight.com
 
LuCane said:
www.canesinsight.com

'23 Defensive pressure off the Edge and more

So, this started as a separate discussion offline. I thought we needed more pressure off the edge and hurrying the QB in '23. A solid point was made that we were Top 10 in sacks in '22. I admit my refusal to re-watch games the way I have in prior seasons, so my feeling about our lack of elite...
www.canesinsight.com www.canesinsight.com
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What are your updated thoughts?
 
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cway313 said:
What are your updated thoughts?
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They're largely the same as when I made that post. I was told Mesidor was our pass rush guy, and obviously he's out, so I guess it stands to reason that our pass rush is way down. However, Mesidor didn't test the Edge the way we needed, anyway. He'd get a lot of his sacks from pass rush downs where he'd be inside, or looping, or the like.

The biggest surprise/disappointment is that Kelly has been hurt and hasn't yet made the leap for us. We don't have much else to go on. Bain is doing a great job, but he's not the Edge-bender we need. Plainly, we still need a DE or Jack who can get around Tackles and consistently create hurries/pressures.

This week, we're playing against a Center who I know struggles to move his feet, so put absolutely anyone who can make him move in front of him. Please and thank you.
 
LuCane said:
They're largely the same as when I made that post. I was told Mesidor was our pass rush guy, and obviously he's out, so I guess it stands to reason that our pass rush is way down. However, Mesidor didn't test the Edge the way we needed, anyway. He'd get a lot of his sacks from pass rush downs where he'd be inside, or looping, or the like.

The biggest surprise/disappointment is that Kelly has been hurt and hasn't yet made the leap for us. We don't have much else to go on. Bain is doing a great job, but he's not the Edge-bender we need. Plainly, we still need a DE or Jack who can get around Tackles and consistently create hurries/pressures.

This week, we're playing against a Center who I know struggles to move his feet, so put absolutely anyone who can make him move in front of him. Please and thank you.
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That checks. I'm sure someone will come reassure you that our DE's are really OLB's though.
 
LuCane said:
They're largely the same as when I made that post. I was told Mesidor was our pass rush guy, and obviously he's out, so I guess it stands to reason that our pass rush is way down. However, Mesidor didn't test the Edge the way we needed, anyway. He'd get a lot of his sacks from pass rush downs where he'd be inside, or looping, or the like.

The biggest surprise/disappointment is that Kelly has been hurt and hasn't yet made the leap for us. We don't have much else to go on. Bain is doing a great job, but he's not the Edge-bender we need. Plainly, we still need a DE or Jack who can get around Tackles and consistently create hurries/pressures.

This week, we're playing against a Center who I know struggles to move his feet, so put absolutely anyone who can make him move in front of him. Please and thank you.
Click to expand...
Gore worked Gaynor last year
 
The DL has been solid against the run.

We have talented young pass rushers. They need time to mature, gain strength (and weight in the case of Moss), and gain additional experience at the college level. Give it some time as we were devoid of serious pass rushing threats after GR & JP were drafted in the first round. Mario & JT are re-stocking the cupboard.

Mesidor being injured (and Kelly nicked as well) hasn’t helped.

Guidry has been creative in creating pressure different ways. The only slight surprise to me is that Moss hasn’t been used a little to rush on obvious passing downs because while he’s struggled to add the weight needed to hold up against the run he’s fast & can get to the QB.

JT has done some great work on the recruiting trail (with Lightfoot & others). He’s a great role model & teacher. We’re lucky to have him.

Overall, the play of the DL has exceeded my expectations (particularly stopping the run).
 
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Taylor is doing fine…Our best overall DE is out indefinitely and has been since early day 2

One thing I do notice is that we flare DE out into the flat ALOT

Would love to just see guys like Kelly rushing the passer more than covering flats…But overall I think Guidry is a lot more good than bad so as long as it produces results.
 
This article in the athletic last year talks about how “sacks” are not a very telling measure for today’s game: https://theathletic.com/3609086/2022/09/20/college-football-sacks-georgia/?amp=1

Here is a quote from the article which includes a quote from Kirby Smart whose Georgia defense last year was among the best all time but had a tiny sack rate:
“But defenses, realizing how much harder it has been to get sacks, have not looked at them as the main barometer for whether they’re getting enough pressure.

‘It’s the evolution of the game,’ Smart said. ‘Our job is to be disruptive and pressure the quarterback, affect the quarterback. But that doesn’t always equal sack the quarterback, which is obvious this year, that that’s been tough to do.’”

Below are two pictures. The first one is of the top 11 defenses this year. The second is of the teams with the lowest sack rates in NCAAF. We along with Oregon, Penn State, Michigan and Georgia are among the worst 17 teams this year in sack rate but we are among the 11 best defenses in the country.

Sacks are great—but they don’t tell the whole story.
Even though we haven’t been getting a lot of sacks our DL has been a strength of our defense it just isn’t showing up in traditional stat sheets.
Their play has been huge against the run and making QBs uncomfortable. Sure more sacks would be great, but I’m more concerned with preventing the QB scrambles up the middle when we lose integrity after a stunt.

Overall DL is making our LBs and DBs look great
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JD4 said:
This article in the athletic last year talks about how “sacks” are not a very telling measure for today’s game: https://theathletic.com/3609086/2022/09/20/college-football-sacks-georgia/?amp=1

Here is a quote from the article which includes a quote from Kirby Smart whose Georgia defense last year was among the best all time but had a tiny sack rate:
“But defenses, realizing how much harder it has been to get sacks, have not looked at them as the main barometer for whether they’re getting enough pressure.

‘It’s the evolution of the game,’ Smart said. ‘Our job is to be disruptive and pressure the quarterback, affect the quarterback. But that doesn’t always equal sack the quarterback, which is obvious this year, that that’s been tough to do.’”

Below are two pictures. The first one is of the top 11 defenses this year. The second is of the teams with the lowest sack rates in NCAAF. We along with Oregon, Penn State, Michigan and Georgia are among the worst 17 teams this year in sack rate but we are among the 11 best defenses in the country.

Sacks are great—but they don’t tell the whole story.
Even though we haven’t been getting a lot of sacks our DL has been a strength of our defense it just isn’t showing up in traditional stat sheets.
Their play has been huge against the run and making QBs uncomfortable. Sure more sacks would be great, but I’m more concerned with preventing the QB scrambles up the middle when we lose integrity after a stunt.

Overall DL is making our LBs and DBs look great
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Would love for you to revisit this with updated info in 2 weeks.
 
LuCane said:
They're largely the same as when I made that post. I was told Mesidor was our pass rush guy, and obviously he's out, so I guess it stands to reason that our pass rush is way down. However, Mesidor didn't test the Edge the way we needed, anyway. He'd get a lot of his sacks from pass rush downs where he'd be inside, or looping, or the like.

The biggest surprise/disappointment is that Kelly has been hurt and hasn't yet made the leap for us. We don't have much else to go on. Bain is doing a great job, but he's not the Edge-bender we need. Plainly, we still need a DE or Jack who can get around Tackles and consistently create hurries/pressures.

This week, we're playing against a Center who I know struggles to move his feet, so put absolutely anyone who can make him move in front of him. Please and thank you.
Click to expand...
I agree that Kelly’s injury has prevented him from being as impactful as he could be, but I think he looked phenomenal last game and I’ve been very impressed with his growth. I think understanding the scheme and what the players are being asked to do is more important for evaluating their performance than just looking at the sack numbers.

Look at my previous post in this thread and you’ll see a lot of the best defenses in the country have low sack numbers. The defenses goal is to prevent the offense from scoring. Last year we had way more sacks but we gave up more yards.

I’ve been very impressed with the DLs growth this year and think they’ve played much more fundamentally sound football and it’s paying off dividends for the defense as a whole. DL playing good fundamental football is making our LBs look a lot better than they did last year
 
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