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James Williams will be a cane

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The Franchise said:
Booch was much closer in time to our glory years when fans still had super high expectations. He was on the hot seat even before social media. He would have been dead during this era given where we were as a program when he took over. Erickson lost 2 games his first year, and everyone was calling for his head. Legit calling for his head.
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I remember Butch's years well. I remember the banner "National Champs to National Chumps … Thanks Butch". That 6-7 year hurt. It was around that time I first got on Grassy.com. There was no Twitter or Facebook, but it still got pretty hot.

But Dee was AD. There was no way he was going to fire him.
 
NorthEastCane said:
I remember Butch's years well. I remember the banner "National Champs to National Chumps … Thanks Butch". That 6-7 year hurt. It was around that time I first got on Grassy.com. There was no Twitter or Facebook, but it still got pretty hot.

But Dee was AD. There was no way he was going to fire him.
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You can say "there's no way he was going to fire him" and we'll just disagree on that. Booch would have been toast if today's social media climate was present back then. Never would have made it to his 4th year. He was getting whipped every year by FSU and VT, and that was at a time when our fans still had very high expectations for the program.

When I tell you Erickson feared for his life after losing 2 games his first season I'm not kidding. Different mindset back then with our fans. We were like what Alabaga fans are like now.
 
The Franchise said:
Booch was much closer in time to our glory years when fans still had super high expectations. He was on the hot seat even before social media. He would have been dead during this era given where we were as a program when he took over. Erickson lost 2 games his first year, and everyone was calling for his head. Legit calling for his head.
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Erickson’s second season, 1990. 10-2 with losses at BYU (terrible loss) and at ND. Some of the heat was the way Miami embarrassed Texas in the Cotton Bowl. Not that I had a problem with it....

But you’re correct, the social media heat on Butch would have been nuclear.
 
NorthEastCane said:
They may not have been trying to ruin UM football, they were trying to save their jobs and ruined UM football in the process (IMO of course).
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I get that. But when I see the word "intentionally," it carries a certain significance. That's why I asked for clarification.
 
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TemplarCane said:
Erickson’s second season, 1990. 10-2 with losses at BYU (terrible loss) and at ND. Some of the heat was the way Miami embarrassed Texas in the Cotton Bowl. Not that I had a problem with it....

But you’re correct, the social media heat on Butch would have been nuclear.
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Kind of how it got on Golden. I'm not stating that the heat wouldn't have gotten hot. I'm saying it wouldn't have gotten him fired. It took two years of historically bad defensive collapses with no end in sight. Still thanks to Dabo, it took a 58-0 Clemson tap dance on Golden's corpse to show it wasn't going to get better, it's best to pull the plug. It took a loss to USF for Shalala to fire Shannon. It's just not how UM does things.

Butch on the other hand, after the 6-7 season, got consistently better.
 
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The Franchise said:
Booch was much closer in time to our glory years when fans still had super high expectations. He was on the hot seat even before social media. He would have been dead during this era given where we were as a program when he took over. Erickson lost 2 games his first year, and everyone was calling for his head. Legit calling for his head.
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Yes. Butch took over a team that in 94 was a hair away from a title. Say whatever you want about Dennis, the 94 team was really good.

I believe Butch started out 95 1-3 which included a terrible opener against UCLA.

Listen, year 1 Manny was a mess. No doubt. However, if every HC was judged like this, then Butch wouldn’t have lasted at Miami. Beamer wouldn’t have lasted at VT. Dabo wouldn’t have lasted at Clemson. And on and on.

Manny might not be the guy, but the insanity over year 1 when he inherited an offense and kicking mess is truly absurd. Give him a shot?
 
NorthEastCane said:
Kind of how it got on Golden. I'm not stating that the heat wouldn't have gotten hot. I'm saying it wouldn't have gotten him fired. It took two years of historically bad defense collapses with no end insight. Still thanks to Dabo, it took a 58-0 Clemson tap dance on Golden's corpse to show it wasn't going to get better, it's best to pull the plug. It took a loss to USF for Shalala to fire Shannon. It's just not how UM does things.

Butch on the other hand, after the 6-7 season, got consistently better.
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Agreed, and I think most honest fans and Dee understood the difficult rebuild under probation. Only spoiled fans thought Miami just shows up and dominates the field and the recruiting trails.

Butch had to hit bottom in 1997 with a 5-6 record and the 47-0 loss at FSU. We know the rest.

Shannon and Golden never showed improvement. Shannon regressed, and Golden was consistently mediocre.
 
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grover said:
I think an intervention is needed, Brooklyn. You used to be a lot nicer, my friend.
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You're right. I was. See how it was interpreted though? See how for a fan in almost every possible situation the player is the one that's wrong in this climate. If the kid stays and he's not an all American he's a loser and it's on the kid. If a kid falls out with the staff and tries to make things right, it's on the kid. If a kid stays here and doesn't accomplish what people think he should it's on the kid. If a kid says enough is enough & admits to himself for whatever reason the situation doesn't work for him,whether it's the staff letting him down or he's not a good fit in The system again it's still fvck that kid he's a such & such... Well what if that same loser simply wants a fair shot at HIS LIFE AT HIS FUTURE. How long should the kid stay where he is knowing he only has 4 years to hopefully change his future and his families future from poverty or anything similar to set for life. When are these fans gonna take themselves so selfishly out of the equation & say if it was their kid,if it was their lives would they just sit by and accept your future isn't in your hands. That these coaches who sat in your living rooms and spoke so highly about you,who told your mother,brothers,uncle this that and the third with no intention of EVER following through,that those are the people you should sit back patiently regardless of what goes on in front of you & accept your fate is in those peoples hands. If y'all would say you'd do the same you're either a **** liar or a moron. Those people I'm tired of and that's why that nonsense is over for me.
 
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TemplarCane said:
Agreed, and I think most honest fans and Dee understood the difficult rebuild under probation. Only spoiled fans thought Miami just shows up and dominates the field and the recruiting trails.

Butch had to hit bottom in 1997 with a 5-6 record and the 47-0 loss at FSU. We know the rest.

Shannon and Golden never showed improvement. Shannon regressed, and Golden was consistently mediocre.
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It's not the results,it's the process...
 
TemplarCane said:
Agreed, and I think most honest fans and Dee understood the difficult rebuild under probation. Only spoiled fans thought Miami just shows up and dominates the field and the recruiting trails.

Butch had to hit bottom in 1997 with a 5-6 record and the 47-0 loss at FSU. We know the rest.

Shannon and Golden never showed improvement. Shannon regressed, and Golden was consistently mediocre.
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This is also the reason you can't give these simpletons credit for nothing. If the comparison is Butch first year to this without understanding context(scholarship numbers actually healthy and on the team,practice going iron man most of the season...)
 
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No_Fly_Zone said:
I get that. But when I see the word "intentionally," it carries a certain significance. That's why I asked for clarification.
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Clarification is for business minds numbers are the only things that make sense. That's not wins and losses that's profits and margins...
 
dsddcane said:
This is also the reason you can't give these simpletons credit for nothing. If the comparison is Butch first year to this without understanding context(scholarship numbers actually healthy and on the team,practice going iron man most of the season...)
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Butch did not take over a team with scholarship issues. There were issues post 95. But he took over a full team post 94.
 
dsddcane said:
Careful now. Don't show them that one. Look at the numbers on the schools shown directly ahead or bama behind. We've got 16 commits and none of them 3 stars yet it's impressive... All that likely means is were not getting many kids the powers ACTUALLY WANT.
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Nah bruh, same kids commit to Baga and they get 4 stars lol. We just need to evaluate the kids as best as possible, and not worry about the stars. But the sure fire blue chip guys down here, we need to get and sprinkle with the 3 stars. But coaching the guys up is what we have not been doing. No one in our division has anywhere near the talent we get.
 
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aleahy said:
Butch did not take over a team with scholarship issues. There were issues post 95. But he took over a full team post 94.
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Butch did a great job in 1995. The season started poorly, 1-3, with the win versus FAMU. No quarterback. Lost Sapp to the NFL. A season in transition and knowing the NCAA hammer was coming down. The team rebounded and won seven straight to close the season 8-3, 6-1 in conference with the one loss to 6-1 VaTech.

Excellent job by Butch and staff.
 
aleahy said:
Butch did not take over a team with scholarship issues. There were issues post 95. But he took over a full team post 94.
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That wasn't what I was talking about but I see that is basically what I said. Sorry this covid medication makes me drowsy as ****. I was comparing first year & moving forward. We didn't have scholarship numbers lacking first year we had alot of health issues though. 96 scholarship players were more limited and when injured we REALLY saw the effect on the field when everyone had to either play through **** or walk ons got on regularly and by 97 we were flat out practicing iron man football Half the season. Especially at db & lb. The difference from the start was coaching & process driven. People who had a history of producing and kids who respected that. But first and foremost we were taught proper technique and told you guys are gonna decide who's gonna play and who doesn't. If you produce you'll be on this field. If you don't then peace. We ran people off on a regular. But it was never cause someone got favoritism until they showed they deserved it. Like JJ & Butch always said.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
I get that. But when I see the word "intentionally," it carries a certain significance. That's why I asked for clarification.
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There's never been a HC here that intentionally tried to tear down the program. They were incompetent or over their heads or their systems didn't fit, but none of them set out to tear the program down.
 
The Franchise said:
There's never been a HC here that intentionally tried to tear down the program. They were incompetent or over their heads or their systems didn't fit, but none of them set out to tear the program down.
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So there wasn’t a guy who came here trying to intentionally commit career suicide?
 
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