Issiah Walker

[252cane]

@TheOriginalCane

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Credit to grover, for posting this about 10 pages ago.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.



Not sure what words people don't understand.

If you sign an LOI, or an FAA, that INITIALLY provides financial aid for the FALL TERM, then you count towards the annual limit on signings FOR THAT ACADEMIC YEAR. Not a future year. Not next year.

Now, if you are getting financial aid FOR THE FIRST TIME in the second term (spring) or the third term (summer), then sure, you can count toward the limit "for the next academic year".

Which is the rule that has always existed. Spring/summer kids count towards the upcoming academic year that begins in the fall.

But.

You can't count a Fall 2020 kid towards "the next academic year" (2021-2022).

The rule is clear.

And David Lake is not clear. Or is an idiot.

And the CIS posters who keep insisting that we can count a Fall 2020 kid towards 2021-2022 have not read the rule. They are just hanging on a vague fragment of a sentence from David Lake.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

@TheOriginalCane

Again, not sure what you think Ivins said.

I just provided the rule. Again.

There is no such thing as counting a fall enrollee "forwards".

Once again, Ivins has not said that. The rules of playing eligibility (getting a waiver) and the rules of enrolling too many signees (IC rules) are separate.

Believe whatever falsehoods you choose to believe. Send Ivins a PM with the text of the NCAA rule and ask him how in God's name we can enroll Walker and Williams for Fall 2020, with financial aid, when we only have one IC left, and the rules of the NCAA specifically say that we need to count anyone with fall Financial Aid for THAT academic year (2020-2021).

Again, Ivins and Lake can misstate anything they choose to misstate. It doesn't change the NCAA rules.

If Manny can enroll Walker and Williams for the Fall, with financial aid, I will be happy, and happy to admit that I am wrong.

And if that is actually the way the NCAA rules work, then there are no limits, and 120 other schools can do the same. But that's not the case, and that is why so many coaches are asking for the rules to be changed now that the Portal is such a big deal.

 

[Cribby]

Ivins has never said there was more than one spot. He has always said the problem is there is only one spot. If the staff wants both, one has to get counted towards the next class.

He also NEVER said it was his opinion that Walker would get a waiver. He said he was told the STAFF believed Walker could probably get a waiver.

The staff is very confident he’ll get a waiver. I actually posted that yesterday morning and told some posters in pm. Just to be clear for some of his stans.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Is this where Diaz is going to make some grand statement about the value of a Miami offer when him, Patke, Baker, and Rumph got played three times by Jaidon Francois.

99% of teams have this kind of example every year. Overall I think they did a good job of wading through the policy/culture change.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The staff is very confident he’ll get a waiver. I actually posted that yesterday morning. She told some posters in pm. Just to be clear for some of his stans.

Agreed on the waiver.

I'd be willing to bet that if you just type "Covid-19" on the waiver application, you'll get the "Approved" rubber stamp.

 

[252cane]

Again, not sure what you think Ivins said.

I just provided the rule. Again.

There is no such thing as counting a fall enrollee "forwards".

Once again, Ivins has not said that. The rules of playing eligibility (getting a waiver) and the rules of enrolling too many signees (IC rules) are separate.

Believe whatever falsehoods you choose to believe. Send Ivins a PM with the text of the NCAA rule and ask him how in God's name we can enroll Walker and Williams for Fall 2020, with financial aid, when we only have one IC left, and the rules of the NCAA specifically say that we need to count anyone with fall Financial Aid for THAT academic year (2020-2021).

Again, Ivins and Lake can misstate anything they choose to misstate. It doesn't change the NCAA rules.

If Manny can enroll Walker and Williams for the Fall, with financial aid, I will be happy, and happy to admit that I am wrong.

And if that is actually the way the NCAA rules work, then there are no limits, and 120 other schools can do the same. But that's not the case, and that is why so many coaches are asking for the rules to be changed now that the Portal is such a big deal.

I’m not saying he is right cause idk but I was just showing you he did say it because you said you hadn’t seen it

 

[Cribby]

Agreed on the waiver.

I'd be willing to bet that if you just type "Covid-19" on the waiver application, you'll get the "Approved" rubber stamp.

I was under the impression if we count him forward he’d have to wait, hence why I think he might hesitate. That’s why I said the only thing that could mess this up is is using last ic on a grad transfer then having him wait before enrolling. A waiver would be useless if he’s counting forward , but i don’t know the rules like some. Just assuming.

 

[Southside Cane]

That is absolutely NOT what was said.

First, Ivins did NOT say "they can count Walker forward".

LAKE is the one who raised that "possibility", but did not even describe how that could happen. Because it CAN'T, unless Walker waits until spring to enroll.

So, again, this is wishful-thinking-not-really-listening-or-understanding on the part of Miami fans.

Nobody said "yes, we can take both". There would be only one way to take both (assuming we didn't get the Asa Martin IC back), and that would be for Williams to enroll in Fall and Walker to enroll in Spring.

Not sure why people are so desperate to misinterpret the words that Lake used. He did NOT say that we could take both for the Fall semester.

And I'm not sure why people think they have figured out some genius loophole, but the NCAA is too stupid to realize it.

If every team in the country could, as they get close to August, just keep signing kids by using the next year's IC slots, there would never be any limitation at all.

I mean, just yesterday, certain posters were acting like the key component to this genius loophole was simply waiting until August to enroll them both. Now they are hanging on some vague comment made by David Lake, even though Ivins began the conversation by clearly stating that we have ONE slot left for this cycle (the 2020-2021 academic year cycle).

So somebody is lying. Or somebody made a misstatement. Or the Asa Martin decision has come down.

The only option NOT on the table is that Miami has single-handedly discovered the flaw in the NCAA Death Star IC rules, and we are sending Luke Skywalker in to blow up the IC rules.

Bruh we taking both. Either Williams or Walker are going to be counted forward.

 

[Fluffhead]

99% of teams have this kind of example every year. Overall I think they did a good job of wading through the policy/culture change.

99% of teams do not have the number of decommitments that Miami has and are not surrounded by the cesspool that is recruiting in South Florida. The same way you can't compare IW to any of those other situations, you cannot compare Miami's recruiting issues to any other school. Those schools can afford to take a flyer on something like that.

Personally, I disagree that he did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change, mainly because of:

1) Allowing your starting QB to go AWOL and then play that weekend;
2) Allowing your backup QB to just take off a month and come right back;
3) Losing off of every bye week;
4) Losing to inferior teams and dancing on the sidelines while doing so;
5) Making a whole to-do over the value of the Miami offer and then having this nonsense happen with Francios;
6) Potentially repeating the same pattern this recruiting season with Jacolby George;
7) Bringing back Jeff Thomas and it going up in flames;
8) Then doing the exact same thing with Cleveland Reed (which I truly hope goes better for the team, kid, and Manny).

I am sure you will just say the mopes are out and then not have any facts or basis to support your stance. In fact, I have no idea how you could think they did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change unless you broke into @RVACane place of residence and are half way through his special reserve stash.

 

[AllAboutTheU]

I thought i read that initial counters reset in August?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’m not saying he is right cause idk but I was just showing you he did say it because you said you hadn’t seen it

For the record, I think I have clarified the situation.

I contacted Ivins, and he said that we have a remaining slot from 2019-2020. Which is a COUNTBACK. Not a count forward.

The rule could not be more clear. A fall enrollee cannot count forward. There is no such thing.

Again, let's make this very clear. If we have given out 24 new financial aid awards (not counting walk-ons, since after 1 year they don't count as ICs) to signees, and IF IF IF we can take 2 more, then it MUST be because we have one 2020-2021 slot left and one 2019-2020 slot left. Which, of course, is new information that has not been conveyed to recruits or sportswriters.

I would love it if we can enroll both Walker and Williams, but we certainly couldn't take Moise until Spring 2020 if that is the case.

 

[CanesNY26]

Ivins just said Miami is going to try and get both Williams and Walker in with counting Walker forward to the 2021 class.

Thoughts?

Personally I think this would be the best case scenario for Miami, not only would it secure them a veteran starting OT it would also give them another blue chip OT for the future.

Getting Walker would also keep him away from other programs which is also beneficial

 

[PittsburghCane]

Credit to grover, for posting this about 10 pages ago.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.



Not sure what words people don't understand.

If you sign an LOI, or an FAA, that INITIALLY provides financial aid for the FALL TERM, then you count towards the annual limit on signings FOR THAT ACADEMIC YEAR. Not a future year. Not next year.

Now, if you are getting financial aid FOR THE FIRST TIME in the second term (spring) or the third term (summer), then sure, you can count toward the limit "for the next academic year".

Which is the rule that has always existed. Spring/summer kids count towards the upcoming academic year that begins in the fall.

But.

You can't count a Fall 2020 kid towards "the next academic year" (2021-2022).

The rule is clear.

And David Lake is not clear. Or is an idiot.

And the CIS posters who keep insisting that we can count a Fall 2020 kid towards 2021-2022 have not read the rule. They are just hanging on a vague fragment of a sentence from David Lake.

And we’re sure this covers both direct recruits and transfers? Because transfers have a whole set of rules to go along with the basic recruit rules. And NCAA bylaws are too plentiful to just assume this is the only doc on it.

 

[Go Canes!!]

99% of teams do not have the number of decommitments that Miami has and are not surrounded by the cesspool that is recruiting in South Florida. The same way you can't compare IW to any of those other situations, you cannot compare Miami's recruiting issues to any other school. Those schools can afford to take a flyer on something like that.

Personally, I disagree that he did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change, mainly because of:

1) Allowing your starting QB to go AWOL and then play that weekend;
2) Allowing your backup QB to just take off a month and come right back;
3) Losing off of every bye week;
4) Losing to inferior teams and dancing on the sidelines while doing so;
5) Making a whole to-do over the value of the Miami offer and then having this nonsense happen with Francios;
6) Potentially repeating the same pattern this recruiting season with Jacolby George;
7) Bringing back Jeff Thomas and it going up in flames;
8) Then doing the exact same thing with Cleveland Reed (which I truly hope goes better for the team, kid, and Manny).

I am sure you will just say the mopes are out and then not have any facts or basis to support your stance. In fact, I have no idea how you could think they did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change unless you broke into @RVACane place of residence and are half way through his special reserve stash.

I’m talking about how they handled things since the season ended, especially the unity shown by the incoming recruiting class.

We all agree the entire first season was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[RVACane]

99% of teams do not have the number of decommitments that Miami has and are not surrounded by the cesspool that is recruiting in South Florida. The same way you can't compare IW to any of those other situations, you cannot compare Miami's recruiting issues to any other school. Those schools can afford to take a flyer on something like that.

Personally, I disagree that he did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change, mainly because of:

1) Allowing your starting QB to go AWOL and then play that weekend;
2) Allowing your backup QB to just take off a month and come right back;
3) Losing off of every bye week;
4) Losing to inferior teams and dancing on the sidelines while doing so;
5) Making a whole to-do over the value of the Miami offer and then having this nonsense happen with Francios;
6) Potentially repeating the same pattern this recruiting season with Jacolby George;
7) Bringing back Jeff Thomas and it going up in flames;
8) Then doing the exact same thing with Cleveland Reed (which I truly hope goes better for the team, kid, and Manny).

I am sure you will just say the mopes are out and then not have any facts or basis to support your stance. In fact, I have no idea how you could think they did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change unless you broke into @RVACane place of residence and are half way through his special reserve stash.

My 2 cats guard that shît like it’s catnip.

 

[FreePawn]

And we’re sure this covers both direct recruits and transfers? Because transfers have a whole set of rules to go along with the basic recruit rules. And NCAA bylaws are too plentiful to just assume this is the only doc on it.

Well, if that transfer is going to be on scholarship (=receive financial aid) the rules you quoted are unequivocal.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I thought i read that initial counters reset in August?

I don't think people understand what that means.

Oh, sure, I guess that means we could just enroll 25 transfers. Wrong.

There's no such thing as a "reset". You can simply give out 25 FIRST-TIME grants of financial aid that apply to a particular year. Now, I usually call this "enrollees", but the rule clearly talks about signees. Meaning, if we had SIGNED Moise, and then he didn't qualify, we don't just "get back" his IC slot because he fails to enroll, we LOSE his IC slot because he SIGNED a financial aid agreement or an LOI.

So here's how things work.

The very first year of the IC rules, you had 25 slots. And they applied to a particular year. Let's say the year was 2015-2016. That meant, you got 25 slots for that year. In the olden days, most of the kids would report in the fall, and some would report "early". But they all counted towards that year. Thus, in Year 1 (2015-2016 in my example), you could give 25 new financial aid awards, which could be given in Fall 2015, Summer 2015, or Spring 2015. You didn't get to "beat the rule" by enrolling 25 new kids in the spring and 25 new kids in the fall.

Once the rule was established, if you didn't give out 25 full scholarships in Year 1, you could use those IC slots the next year (countbacks). So for Year 2 (the 2016-2017 academic year), you could give out 25 new scholarships and whatever number remained unawarded from Year 1. And so on and so on and so on.

So for the 2020-2021 academic year, we have 25 slots (to be awarded in Fall 2020, Summer 2020, or Spring 2020, but it COULD ALSO include Spring 2021 or Summer 2021, assuming we don't give out all 25).

It was my understanding that we have used 24 slots and had no countbacks, thus ONE IC SLOT LEFT. Apparently, though, Ivins is saying we have one countback ALSO.

Look, the certification date is the Fall. When you submit your IC report to the fall, and let's say you have 26 names on the list, then you have to state that you have 25 that count towards the current year (2020-2021) and one that counts towards a prior year (2019-2020).

THAT'S NOT A COUNT FORWARD.

You only "count forward" if you are a Spring or Summer enrollee.

Thus, for our 2020-2021 year, when we certify and send the report, we will include (a) whoever enrolls for Fall 2020 and gets financial aid for the first time, (b) anyone who enrolled in Summer 2020 (if there even is a Summer 2020) and gets financial aid for the first time, (c) anyone who enrolled in Spring 2020 and got financial aid for the first time, (d) anyone we signed who did not qualify, and (e) anyone who got financial aid from Spring 2020 to Fall 2020 who we want to count back towards a prior year.

That's it.

No "count forwards" for Fall 2020. Only countbacks. Not sure how we got another countback, if it came from the mid-year replacement rule, or the Asa Martin appeal, or some other lie that Manny told.

But I'm not going to argue if we DO have a countback. I would love it if we do, and we can get both Walker and Williams.

But we don't have "count-forwards" for Fall 2020. That's not a real thing.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’m not saying he is right cause idk but I was just showing you he did say it because you said you hadn’t seen it

All good. I contacted Ivins, it's a countback, not a countforward.

No such thing for Fall enrollee.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Bruh we taking both. Either Williams or Walker are going to be counted forward.

We might take both, but there is no such thing as a fall countforward.

Ivins says it's a countback.