Issiah Walker

[TheOriginalCane]

Yea ivins is saying they can count walker forward but he would need a waiver to play

That is absolutely NOT what was said.

First, Ivins did NOT say "they can count Walker forward".

LAKE is the one who raised that "possibility", but did not even describe how that could happen. Because it CAN'T, unless Walker waits until spring to enroll.

So, again, this is wishful-thinking-not-really-listening-or-understanding on the part of Miami fans.

Nobody said "yes, we can take both". There would be only one way to take both (assuming we didn't get the Asa Martin IC back), and that would be for Williams to enroll in Fall and Walker to enroll in Spring.

Not sure why people are so desperate to misinterpret the words that Lake used. He did NOT say that we could take both for the Fall semester.

And I'm not sure why people think they have figured out some genius loophole, but the NCAA is too stupid to realize it.

If every team in the country could, as they get close to August, just keep signing kids by using the next year's IC slots, there would never be any limitation at all.

I mean, just yesterday, certain posters were acting like the key component to this genius loophole was simply waiting until August to enroll them both. Now they are hanging on some vague comment made by David Lake, even though Ivins began the conversation by clearly stating that we have ONE slot left for this cycle (the 2020-2021 academic year cycle).

So somebody is lying. Or somebody made a misstatement. Or the Asa Martin decision has come down.

The only option NOT on the table is that Miami has single-handedly discovered the flaw in the NCAA Death Star IC rules, and we are sending Luke Skywalker in to blow up the IC rules.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Just admit you are wrong and move on

I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong.

But I'm not wrong about this.

Please notice, nobody has cut-and-pasted an actual Ivins quote stating that we can enroll both Walker and Williams for Fall 2020.

I'll be waiting for that Ivins quote. More importantly, I'll wait for Manny to confirm it by enrolling them both.

Then I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong.

 

[252cane]

agreed. Our tackles will be some combo or Scaife/Nelson/rivers unless we get a transfer. I don’t see Walker with no training the last 3 months or this summer being ready come fall to take anyone’s spot.

Scaife and rivers was at guard in the spring

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’m pretty sure he’ll be able to play no? Wasn’t Joe Burrow counted forward?

No.

Why do you think that Joe Burrow "counted forward"?

IC rules are separate from grad transfer rules. Burrow graduated from Ohio State, enrolled as a graduate student at LSU, and was eligible to play immediately.

But Burrow counted as an IC at Ohio State, and he counted as an IC at LSU.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

On his latest podcast he talked about counting Walker or Williams (can’t remember which) forward.

No, you are wrong.

Ivins clearly stated that we have one IC slot left for 2020-2021.

Later, David Lake shot off his mouth, but never stated how to accomplish this. Lake never said that we could enroll both Williams and Walker for the fall semester.

Again, under the current NCAA rules, and assuming no other methods (getting the Asa Martin IC slot back), all fall enrollees count for THAT YEAR. The only way you "count forward" (which is just another term for counting early, or enrolling early) is to report in the Spring (second term) or Summer (third term). Only then can you count towards the upcoming cycle.

Please, feel free to read the NCAA rule, which was posted earlier. There is no such thing as "counting forward" for the first term (Fall) enrollees.

 

[252cane]

@TheOriginalCane

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Credit to grover, for posting this about 10 pages ago.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.



Not sure what words people don't understand.

If you sign an LOI, or an FAA, that INITIALLY provides financial aid for the FALL TERM, then you count towards the annual limit on signings FOR THAT ACADEMIC YEAR. Not a future year. Not next year.

Now, if you are getting financial aid FOR THE FIRST TIME in the second term (spring) or the third term (summer), then sure, you can count toward the limit "for the next academic year".

Which is the rule that has always existed. Spring/summer kids count towards the upcoming academic year that begins in the fall.

But.

You can't count a Fall 2020 kid towards "the next academic year" (2021-2022).

The rule is clear.

And David Lake is not clear. Or is an idiot.

And the CIS posters who keep insisting that we can count a Fall 2020 kid towards 2021-2022 have not read the rule. They are just hanging on a vague fragment of a sentence from David Lake.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

@TheOriginalCane

Again, not sure what you think Ivins said.

I just provided the rule. Again.

There is no such thing as counting a fall enrollee "forwards".

Once again, Ivins has not said that. The rules of playing eligibility (getting a waiver) and the rules of enrolling too many signees (IC rules) are separate.

Believe whatever falsehoods you choose to believe. Send Ivins a PM with the text of the NCAA rule and ask him how in God's name we can enroll Walker and Williams for Fall 2020, with financial aid, when we only have one IC left, and the rules of the NCAA specifically say that we need to count anyone with fall Financial Aid for THAT academic year (2020-2021).

Again, Ivins and Lake can misstate anything they choose to misstate. It doesn't change the NCAA rules.

If Manny can enroll Walker and Williams for the Fall, with financial aid, I will be happy, and happy to admit that I am wrong.

And if that is actually the way the NCAA rules work, then there are no limits, and 120 other schools can do the same. But that's not the case, and that is why so many coaches are asking for the rules to be changed now that the Portal is such a big deal.

 

[Cribby]

Ivins has never said there was more than one spot. He has always said the problem is there is only one spot. If the staff wants both, one has to get counted towards the next class.

He also NEVER said it was his opinion that Walker would get a waiver. He said he was told the STAFF believed Walker could probably get a waiver.

The staff is very confident he’ll get a waiver. I actually posted that yesterday morning and told some posters in pm. Just to be clear for some of his stans.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Is this where Diaz is going to make some grand statement about the value of a Miami offer when him, Patke, Baker, and Rumph got played three times by Jaidon Francois.

99% of teams have this kind of example every year. Overall I think they did a good job of wading through the policy/culture change.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The staff is very confident he’ll get a waiver. I actually posted that yesterday morning. She told some posters in pm. Just to be clear for some of his stans.

Agreed on the waiver.

I'd be willing to bet that if you just type "Covid-19" on the waiver application, you'll get the "Approved" rubber stamp.

 

[252cane]

Again, not sure what you think Ivins said.

I just provided the rule. Again.

There is no such thing as counting a fall enrollee "forwards".

Once again, Ivins has not said that. The rules of playing eligibility (getting a waiver) and the rules of enrolling too many signees (IC rules) are separate.

Believe whatever falsehoods you choose to believe. Send Ivins a PM with the text of the NCAA rule and ask him how in God's name we can enroll Walker and Williams for Fall 2020, with financial aid, when we only have one IC left, and the rules of the NCAA specifically say that we need to count anyone with fall Financial Aid for THAT academic year (2020-2021).

Again, Ivins and Lake can misstate anything they choose to misstate. It doesn't change the NCAA rules.

If Manny can enroll Walker and Williams for the Fall, with financial aid, I will be happy, and happy to admit that I am wrong.

And if that is actually the way the NCAA rules work, then there are no limits, and 120 other schools can do the same. But that's not the case, and that is why so many coaches are asking for the rules to be changed now that the Portal is such a big deal.

I’m not saying he is right cause idk but I was just showing you he did say it because you said you hadn’t seen it

 

[Cribby]

Agreed on the waiver.

I'd be willing to bet that if you just type "Covid-19" on the waiver application, you'll get the "Approved" rubber stamp.

I was under the impression if we count him forward he’d have to wait, hence why I think he might hesitate. That’s why I said the only thing that could mess this up is is using last ic on a grad transfer then having him wait before enrolling. A waiver would be useless if he’s counting forward , but i don’t know the rules like some. Just assuming.

 

[Southside Cane]

That is absolutely NOT what was said.

First, Ivins did NOT say "they can count Walker forward".

LAKE is the one who raised that "possibility", but did not even describe how that could happen. Because it CAN'T, unless Walker waits until spring to enroll.

So, again, this is wishful-thinking-not-really-listening-or-understanding on the part of Miami fans.

Nobody said "yes, we can take both". There would be only one way to take both (assuming we didn't get the Asa Martin IC back), and that would be for Williams to enroll in Fall and Walker to enroll in Spring.

Not sure why people are so desperate to misinterpret the words that Lake used. He did NOT say that we could take both for the Fall semester.

And I'm not sure why people think they have figured out some genius loophole, but the NCAA is too stupid to realize it.

If every team in the country could, as they get close to August, just keep signing kids by using the next year's IC slots, there would never be any limitation at all.

I mean, just yesterday, certain posters were acting like the key component to this genius loophole was simply waiting until August to enroll them both. Now they are hanging on some vague comment made by David Lake, even though Ivins began the conversation by clearly stating that we have ONE slot left for this cycle (the 2020-2021 academic year cycle).

So somebody is lying. Or somebody made a misstatement. Or the Asa Martin decision has come down.

The only option NOT on the table is that Miami has single-handedly discovered the flaw in the NCAA Death Star IC rules, and we are sending Luke Skywalker in to blow up the IC rules.

Bruh we taking both. Either Williams or Walker are going to be counted forward.

 

[Fluffhead]

99% of teams have this kind of example every year. Overall I think they did a good job of wading through the policy/culture change.

99% of teams do not have the number of decommitments that Miami has and are not surrounded by the cesspool that is recruiting in South Florida. The same way you can't compare IW to any of those other situations, you cannot compare Miami's recruiting issues to any other school. Those schools can afford to take a flyer on something like that.

Personally, I disagree that he did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change, mainly because of:

1) Allowing your starting QB to go AWOL and then play that weekend;
2) Allowing your backup QB to just take off a month and come right back;
3) Losing off of every bye week;
4) Losing to inferior teams and dancing on the sidelines while doing so;
5) Making a whole to-do over the value of the Miami offer and then having this nonsense happen with Francios;
6) Potentially repeating the same pattern this recruiting season with Jacolby George;
7) Bringing back Jeff Thomas and it going up in flames;
8) Then doing the exact same thing with Cleveland Reed (which I truly hope goes better for the team, kid, and Manny).

I am sure you will just say the mopes are out and then not have any facts or basis to support your stance. In fact, I have no idea how you could think they did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change unless you broke into @RVACane place of residence and are half way through his special reserve stash.

 

[AllAboutTheU]

I thought i read that initial counters reset in August?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’m not saying he is right cause idk but I was just showing you he did say it because you said you hadn’t seen it

For the record, I think I have clarified the situation.

I contacted Ivins, and he said that we have a remaining slot from 2019-2020. Which is a COUNTBACK. Not a count forward.

The rule could not be more clear. A fall enrollee cannot count forward. There is no such thing.

Again, let's make this very clear. If we have given out 24 new financial aid awards (not counting walk-ons, since after 1 year they don't count as ICs) to signees, and IF IF IF we can take 2 more, then it MUST be because we have one 2020-2021 slot left and one 2019-2020 slot left. Which, of course, is new information that has not been conveyed to recruits or sportswriters.

I would love it if we can enroll both Walker and Williams, but we certainly couldn't take Moise until Spring 2020 if that is the case.

 

[CanesNY26]

Ivins just said Miami is going to try and get both Williams and Walker in with counting Walker forward to the 2021 class.

Thoughts?

Personally I think this would be the best case scenario for Miami, not only would it secure them a veteran starting OT it would also give them another blue chip OT for the future.

Getting Walker would also keep him away from other programs which is also beneficial

 

[PittsburghCane]

Credit to grover, for posting this about 10 pages ago.

Here's the specific NCAA bylaw:

13.9.3.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year.



Not sure what words people don't understand.

If you sign an LOI, or an FAA, that INITIALLY provides financial aid for the FALL TERM, then you count towards the annual limit on signings FOR THAT ACADEMIC YEAR. Not a future year. Not next year.

Now, if you are getting financial aid FOR THE FIRST TIME in the second term (spring) or the third term (summer), then sure, you can count toward the limit "for the next academic year".

Which is the rule that has always existed. Spring/summer kids count towards the upcoming academic year that begins in the fall.

But.

You can't count a Fall 2020 kid towards "the next academic year" (2021-2022).

The rule is clear.

And David Lake is not clear. Or is an idiot.

And the CIS posters who keep insisting that we can count a Fall 2020 kid towards 2021-2022 have not read the rule. They are just hanging on a vague fragment of a sentence from David Lake.

And we’re sure this covers both direct recruits and transfers? Because transfers have a whole set of rules to go along with the basic recruit rules. And NCAA bylaws are too plentiful to just assume this is the only doc on it.

 

[Go Canes!!]

99% of teams do not have the number of decommitments that Miami has and are not surrounded by the cesspool that is recruiting in South Florida. The same way you can't compare IW to any of those other situations, you cannot compare Miami's recruiting issues to any other school. Those schools can afford to take a flyer on something like that.

Personally, I disagree that he did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change, mainly because of:

1) Allowing your starting QB to go AWOL and then play that weekend;
2) Allowing your backup QB to just take off a month and come right back;
3) Losing off of every bye week;
4) Losing to inferior teams and dancing on the sidelines while doing so;
5) Making a whole to-do over the value of the Miami offer and then having this nonsense happen with Francios;
6) Potentially repeating the same pattern this recruiting season with Jacolby George;
7) Bringing back Jeff Thomas and it going up in flames;
8) Then doing the exact same thing with Cleveland Reed (which I truly hope goes better for the team, kid, and Manny).

I am sure you will just say the mopes are out and then not have any facts or basis to support your stance. In fact, I have no idea how you could think they did a good job of wading through the policy and culture change unless you broke into @RVACane place of residence and are half way through his special reserve stash.

I’m talking about how they handled things since the season ended, especially the unity shown by the incoming recruiting class.

We all agree the entire first season was an unmitigated disaster.