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Innovative defenses like the 5-1-5

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Lexcane

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I remember back in the day, a coach by the name of Joe Lee Dunn from Miss St fielded several monster defenses for that team, including one year when they went to a 5-1-5 look.

Given our surplus of LBs and lack of depth on DL, i think it makes sense to move some to DL and DB to really balance the depth chart and give us a loaded 2 deep that allows us to put our best players on the field. Starting only 1 true LB allows us to move some of our bigger LBs to DE as rush end specialists, something which Florida puts out IN DROVES every year, those LB/DE tweeners. With LBs beefing up our DE positions, this allows us to move the bigger DEs into the interior to beef up our DT position. And with a 5 man front, you don't need plodding space eating NGs as every DL will be matched up in single coverage by an opposing OL. Our speed and athleticism would be maximized here.

DE - Garvin, Patchan, Rousseau
DT - Willis, Bethel, Silvera
NT - Ford, Odenigbo, Miller,
DT - D Jackson, J Jackson, Martin
DE - Pinckney, McCloud, Jennings, Joyner

LB - Shaq, Smith, Steed

CB - MJ, Ivey, Bethel
Rover - Carter, Perry, Wilder
Free - Smith, Hall, Finley
Strong - JJ, Redwine, Blades
CB - Dean, Bandy, Frierson

Look at that DL...what begins as a position of weakness is now turned into a position of strength. Pinckney is just a hunter, how many plays did we see him make at or behind the LOS last year? And McCloud might be a natural at rush DE since he won't have to worry about dropping back 20 yards to cover slot WRs - he can focus on rushing the passer and covering the flats and slower RBs and TEs. That DB starting 5 is fearsome as well. Carter and the 2 LBs will bring the wood as the Rovers. We get Smith and JJ on the field at the same time, bring Bandy in reserve at CB and Redwine in reserve at SS.

With all the large LB/rush DE types we have, plus the lack of huge NG types, i think this kind of defense could really work here.
 
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5-1-5 schemes are meant for family reunion backyard games, and D'Onofrio's wet dreams!
 
I think you're focusing too much on nomenclature and not enough on skill fit here. I grew up as a Mississippi State fan and appreciate the Joe Lee Dunn reference (shout out to Mario Haggan) so I'll stay ******* cool.

Pinckney, McCloud, Jennings, Odenigbo, Joe Jackson, D Smith, Perry, and Wilder would all be absolutely out of position in that scenario. Pinckney is so effective because he sees the field fits gaps well, not because he has any particular pass rushing skill. Dude would have 0 luck facing off with tackles. Same for Jennings. Odenigbo is a 3 tech, not a nose. Joe Jackson is an exemplary end, and should under no circumstances be relegated to an interior role. Derrick Smith has the tackling and diagnosis skills to play close to scrimmage, not in center field. Perry and Wilder have versatility, but are just not skilled enough to consistently line up in coverage. The only player I could see really fitting a scheme like this would be Rousseau because of his Aldon Smith build, but he's 1 dude and a project freshman at that. Other than that, we don't have many guys that would excel in that 3-4 edge rusher look. It's just not a formation that compliments our strengths. We're light along the D Line, but not so light that we need to make such drastic changes.
 
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CFLCane said:
Slants for days
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You can take away the slants by bringing the Rover and Strong down into the box to act like OLBs. Or drop a DE into robber to take away the passing lane.

See this is the flexibility that this formation brings for you. A 5 man front forces the O to respect the DL - are there 5 OL athletic enough to block Pinckney and Garvin at the edges, and Willis and Ford and D Jackson in the middle one on one? I highly doubt it. The only time an OL will defeat this is in goal line or close yardage situations and that's when you substitute to give your DL a bigger look. The DEs in the 5 man front are athletic enough to drop into pass coverage if necessary and having 5 DBs at all times helps as well in pass coverage. Having 5 DBs also allows us to be flexible AF, allowing us to defend the pass better but also giving us the flexibility to put 8 men in the box with a single call.
 
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Lexcane said:
You can take away the slants by bringing the Rover and Strong down into the box to act like OLBs. Or drop a DE into robber to take away the passing lane.

See this is the flexibility that this formation brings for you. A 5 man front forces the O to respect the DL - are there 5 OL athletic enough to block Pinckney and Garvin at the edges, and Willis and Ford and D Jackson in the middle one on one? I highly doubt it. The only time an OL will defeat this is in goal line or close yardage situations and that's when you substitute to give your DL a bigger look. The DEs in the 5 man front are athletic enough to drop into pass coverage if necessary and having 5 DBs at all times helps as well in pass coverage. Having 5 DBs also allows us to be flexible AF, allowing us to defend the pass better but also giving us the flexibility to put 8 men in the box with a single call.
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I looked up Joe Lee, no references to 5-1-5, only references to 3-3-5. Are you trying to say this is a "look" or a base defense?

Just seems like any coach would widen you out with screens than gut you with draws and slants and shallow TE routes.
 
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CFLCane said:
I looked up Joe Lee, no references to 5-1-5, only references to 3-3-5. Are you trying to say this is a "look" or a base defense?

Just seems like any coach would widen you out with screens than gut you with draws and slants and shallow TE routes.
Click to expand...

I know, he is known for the 3-3-5 but there was one year where he went base 5-1-5. I remember seeing this watching one of their games. They had a beast MLB and a couple NFL prospects that year in the secondary.

The screens, draws, slants, and shallow routes will all be taken care of by the Rover and Strong, as well as by dropping back one or both DEs who aren't your traditional 265lb plodding 4-3 DEs.

The beauty of a 5-1-5 is the flexibility it provides. 5 athletic DL means trouble for most OL which are built to stop a pass rush from 3 or 4 bulky DT-DE types. Each OL would get no help from double teams, and they'd have to be perfect on every play, otherwise a DL will slip through and put pressure on the pocket. If the offense decides to use those screens, draws, slants, shallow routes, that's when you can counter by deploying faster DEs (LBs instead of DEs), having them drop into coverage instead of rushing all 5 DL all the time, or bringing your Rover and Strong Safety up close to create an 8 man box to disrupt those shallow plays.
 
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