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If Mario brings about major improvement from our last bunch of coaches...

Bird4um

Sophomore
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Jan 15, 2012
Messages
2,788
What does that say about the salaries for the bottom 70% of coaches making millions?

We've had a bunch making millions that didn't do much.....
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
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Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
22,945
What does that say about the salaries for the bottom 70% of coaches making millions?

We've had a bunch making millions that didn't do much.....


Pay does not equal performance. We'd like to think so, but it doesn't.

Could name a ton of coaches (and players) who are paid far more (professional ranks) than what they produce, and it is also true of college coaches.

Sports has become very problematic. The revenues are massive, and therefore, the players/coaches SHOULD share in the wealth, but it is still done (largely) on a system of "pay for potential" or "pay for what someone did previously somewhere else", instead of paying for actual performance at the current employer.

The closest that we manage to come to "pay for performance" in sports is in individual competition (golf, tennis, auto racing, etc.) or else in baseball arbitration, where the arbitrated salary is based on the most recent player performance and when compared to the market of other comparable players.

But, yeah, plenty of coaches in particular, and in football specifically, are overpaid compared to actual current accomplishments.
 

mikedeep97

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
315
Incentive laden contacts with guarantees based on current ranking when compared to peers is the best possible system but nothing like that exists to my knowledge.

I would like to know how feasible something like this would be for coaches. It would actually need tweaks for players to include a base salary, adjustments based on starts, compensation for injuries, etc.
 

theribdoctor

Scientific potato
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Jan 3, 2014
Messages
2,850
Pay does not equal performance. We'd like to think so, but it doesn't.

Could name a ton of coaches (and players) who are paid far more (professional ranks) than what they produce, and it is also true of college coaches.

Sports has become very problematic. The revenues are massive, and therefore, the players/coaches SHOULD share in the wealth, but it is still done (largely) on a system of "pay for potential" or "pay for what someone did previously somewhere else", instead of paying for actual performance at the current employer.

The closest that we manage to come to "pay for performance" in sports is in individual competition (golf, tennis, auto racing, etc.) or else in baseball arbitration, where the arbitrated salary is based on the most recent player performance and when compared to the market of other comparable players.

But, yeah, plenty of coaches in particular, and in football specifically, are overpaid compared to actual current accomplishments.
namely:
asp_5633-1.jpg
 

TheOriginalCane

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Dec 22, 2011
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Andy Staples brings this up on his podcast a lot. He makes the argument that someone like Saban is very underpaid (even at close to $10M), but all of these coaches that go 7-5ish are 'replacement level' coaches that are overpaid at $3-4M per year.


CO-rrect. You saw it last year when SUDDENLY every halfway decent coach who got an extension got the same amount ($9.5 million per year, give or take $500K).

Only coaches who should be paid over $10 million right now are Saban, Dabo, Kirby, and Jimbo (old performance). Mack Brown is old and tired. You could probably toss in Riley and Day in the 8-9 million tier. After that, nobody should make more than 6-7 million. That is based on equity principles, not revenue/profit sharing principles.
 

Travis Bickle

Freshman
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
661
What does that say about the salaries for the bottom 70% of coaches making millions?

We've had a bunch making millions that didn't do much.....

That happens in every profession, but coaching seems more extreme because of the salary figures. It's messed up, but some coaches are getting paid to do nothing. Others keep getting rehired despite proven consistent incompetence. Etc. But that happens everywhere. Just not so high profile and high paid.
 

Shogungts

Junior
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
2,541
After that, nobody should make more than 6-7 million.
His case was even that is too high for most. Coaches like Manny (not to pick on him specifically, but b/c he is a good example and one we are all familiar with) should not be making $4M per year. Tony Elliot as a first time head coach should not be making $4.1M at UVA.

He has always had this stance (which I agree with), but in this case it was part of a larger discussion of what would happen to coaches salaries if money previously donated to athletic departments is now going to NIL - will the salaries of 'replacement level' coaches continue to rise or will it stagnate and potentially fall?
 

poncho0091

Senior
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
2,384
They should just create pay brackets based on prior performance (weighted over multiple seasons), and contracts should then be laden with incentives. Ex. certain rankings + wins get you a set dollar amount. Maybe add in some variables for SOS and postseason. Then create realistic incentives based on the team's current standings and prior seasons' performances.
 

hydro66

Senior
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
3,756
CO-rrect. You saw it last year when SUDDENLY every halfway decent coach who got an extension got the same amount ($9.5 million per year, give or take $500K).

Only coaches who should be paid over $10 million right now are Saban, Dabo, Kirby, and Jimbo (old performance). Mack Brown is old and tired. You could probably toss in Riley and Day in the 8-9 million tier. After that, nobody should make more than 6-7 million. That is based on equity principles, not revenue/profit sharing principles.
Mack Brown is an OVERATED IDIOT.
 

firstandcanes

Sophomore
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
2,762
That happens in every profession, but coaching seems more extreme because of the salary figures. It's messed up, but some coaches are getting paid to do nothing. Others keep getting rehired despite proven consistent incompetence. Etc. But that happens everywhere. Just not so high profile and high paid.
It's the buddy system, hiring friends because they make you comfortable usually ends up in poor performance. Then when standards slip it's hard to ignore friendship or family ties.

We've seen this all too often with past coaching staffs. Other than Mirabal, who I think is basically a Mario clone mentality wise, Mario has done a great job filling his staff with guys who have credentials to back them up. It's not just personal relationships.
 

TUSKtimes

BAMMER
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
306
Incentive laden contacts with guarantees based on current ranking when compared to peers is the best possible system but nothing like that exists to my knowledge.

I would like to know how feasible something like this would be for coaches. It would actually need tweaks for players to include a base salary, adjustments based on starts, compensation for injuries, etc.
Many head coaches have incentives worked into their contracts. Division wins, conference championships, making the playoffs, and winning titles have always been spelled out and well-compensated for coach Saban and his contacts at Alabama. The HC should be totally responsible for quality control. We've had numerous coaches that suddenly find work somewhere else and we've had coordinators that have been demoted during the season. That's quality control.

As far as contracts and money paid out, college football is big business with a ton of fun money available for one and all. No one can regulate free enterprise. The other aspect to coaches getting paid bigtime is that you want to slow down, not stop, but slow down, some of the pillagering of the coaching staff that is constantly going on at successful football programs. So you give them big titles like assistant head coach and at times some of these position coaches have 2 or 3 titles and some make much more than the market rate, all in hopes that smaller schools and competition can't swoop down and offer more money even though they may offer a higher position.

Great coaches aren't a dime a dozen and once you get them into your system and they can recruit and have proven themselves you really have to do everything you can to keep them. Even to gladly overpay.
 

ItsAUThing.com

Following 'The U' since '82—covering it since '96.
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
1,883
Pay does not equal performance. We'd like to think so, but it doesn't.

Could name a ton of coaches (and players) who are paid far more (professional ranks) than what they produce, and it is also true of college coaches.

Sports has become very problematic. The revenues are massive, and therefore, the players/coaches SHOULD share in the wealth, but it is still done (largely) on a system of "pay for potential" or "pay for what someone did previously somewhere else", instead of paying for actual performance at the current employer.

The closest that we manage to come to "pay for performance" in sports is in individual competition (golf, tennis, auto racing, etc.) or else in baseball arbitration, where the arbitrated salary is based on the most recent player performance and when compared to the market of other comparable players.

But, yeah, plenty of coaches in particular, and in football specifically, are overpaid compared to actual current accomplishments.


Well put.

Unfortunately the bar has been set and the salaries are what they are. Can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. This is the new norm.

Completely agree that based on performance Saban is grossly underpaid—for all he's made for Alabama and the sport. That said the minute you bump him up to a $10M annual deal, now they next-best guy is going to get $9M—even if he's only half the coach Saban is. So the A-Tier guy gets $10M, the B-Tier guys get $8M-9M, the C-Tier gets $5M to $7M and so on.

The one thing the industry should work on are the buyouts on these contracts—programs hamstrung for years if they hire back to back turd coaches, like FSU with Taggart and the Norvell. They'd love to get rid of Mike, but can't because they're in the poorhouse paying out Willie.

If coaches are getting massive money upfront and annually, there shouldn't be these massive severance packages if schools feel they're underperforming and want to get rid of them.

You want a big severance if you shat the bad—great—you get less money annually and you're protected on the back end.

You want big money annually because you're ready for prime time and are here to win games—great—then if you choke or don't get it done, we're not paying you out for the next five years while you sit home on your fat ass.
 

TUSKtimes

BAMMER
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
306
Well put.

Unfortunately the bar has been set and the salaries are what they are. Can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. This is the new norm.

Completely agree that based on performance Saban is grossly underpaid—for all he's made for Alabama and the sport. That said the minute you bump him up to a $10M annual deal, now they next-best guy is going to get $9M—even if he's only half the coach Saban is. So the A-Tier guy gets $10M, the B-Tier guys get $8M-9M, the C-Tier gets $5M to $7M and so on.

The one thing the industry should work on are the buyouts on these contracts—programs hamstrung for years if they hire back to back turd coaches, like FSU with Taggart and the Norvell. They'd love to get rid of Mike, but can't because they're in the poorhouse paying out Willie.

If coaches are getting massive money upfront and annually, there shouldn't be these massive severance packages if schools feel they're underperforming and want to get rid of them.

You want a big severance if you shat the bad—great—you get less money annually and you're protected on the back end.

You want big money annually because you're ready for prime time and are here to win games—great—then if you choke or don't get it done, we're not paying you out for the next five years while you sit home on your fat ass.
Historically, schools like Michigan State just accept the inevitable and let coaches like Mel Tucker walk, but times are apparently changing. Would Tucker have accepted a non-guaranteed contract, regardless of the money, with all the folks inquiring about his services? He was holding all the cards.
 

Fightinibis

Junior
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
3,975
What does that say about the salaries for the bottom 70% of coaches making millions?

We've had a bunch making millions that didn't do much.....
Name one beyond Mark Richt that made at or north of $4 mill?

Shalala made it known when Butch left, that UM was not going to spend on head coaching beyond a certain mark, and she was a man of her word in seeking to limit our program.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
Premium
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
22,945
Name one beyond Mark Richt that made at or north of $4 mill?

Shalala made it known when Butch left, that UM was not going to spend on head coaching beyond a certain mark, and she was a man of her word in seeking to limit our program.


And yet...the extension given to Larry Coker made him one of the highest-paid college coaches at that time.

1647621071405.png
 

Fightinibis

Junior
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
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