• Attention: Register today to view CanesInSight Ad-Free for 7 days.

I know its been discussed in other threads, BUT

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
Hard to convince elite 5* receivers to pick Miami when they see offenses at Bama, Ohio State, USC (now), and other teams with explosive offenses.

It may take a local kid whose dream school is Miami, like Duke Johnson. Or, a kid whose waits and slots fill up at the usual suspects.
And yet, they still go to A&M, FSU, and Georgia.
 

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
They sent 2 to the NFL, 3rd round and 6th while he was there.

It's not really any better at his prior stops.
He coached Jordan Matthews into a first team all SEC player while at Vanderbilt. Chris Godwin was pretty good at Penn State under his coaching in a system built around Barkley and the TEs. He coached Jerry Jeudy the year he won the Biletnikoff and was an all American and coached Waddle, Ruggs, and Smith as underclassmen to very good years. All of those first guys were drafted in the top 3 rounds. You are literally making **** up.
 

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
Yes, and let’s not factor in the bag game and NIL.
I am not saying no with Georgia or A&M, but FSU? UF? Our NIL program is as strong as those two. I do not disagree with your comment FWIW. It's kind of hard to refute what McClendon said with what is on tape. I am just saying, it is nuanced these days and they need to figure out what they need to sell or do to attract those kids. In theory, in the bump class they should be able to say "this is how it is supposed to look with you (Innis/Dickey/Williams/etc.) running it, so overlook the current end results and stats." That's obviously not working as of now.

At the end of the day, it is Mario's job to make sure he has the right people and systems in place. He has placed a huge emphasis on "talent acquisition", as he calls it. If Gattis (or anyone else on the staff) is not getting the right guys to sign, whether it is because of system, teaching, relatability, or what, and then they are not developing and putting them in positions to excel, then they need to go.
 

SayWhat

Sophomore
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
7,305
He coached Jordan Matthews into a first team all SEC player while at Vanderbilt. Chris Godwin was pretty good at Penn State under his coaching in a system built around Barkley and the TEs. He coached Jerry Jeudy the year he won the Biletnikoff and was an all American and coached Waddle, Ruggs, and Smith as underclassmen to very good years. All of those first guys were drafted in the top 3 rounds. You are literally making **** up.

Really, making stuff up? You are giving him a lot of credit that isn't due, in particular the Bama side. The years I said were years he was a coach on the staff. You should apply to be his publicist.
 

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
Really, making stuff up? You are giving him a lot of credit that isn't due, in particular the Bama side. The years I said were years he was a coach on the staff. You should apply to be his publicist.
He was WR coach for all of those years. If you want to talk about his play calling and how that impacts our WRs, fair game, or if you want to criticize and question what he has extracted from our WRs, I am with you. To say he never did anything on a prior stop is patently false. There is a reason I asked some of the more respected posters on here about him as our WR coach and not as our playcaller. Specifically, because what we saw from his teaching before getting here as compared to this year is not lining up. To your point about his time at Bama:
-Jeudy went from 14/260/2 to 68/1300/14, AA, and Biletnikoff.
-He had Waddle as a true freshman go for 45/850/7.
-Ruggs had a quiet freshman year (12/230/6) and then went for 46/740/11.
-Smith did nothing as a freshman (8/160/3) and then had 42/700/6.

His unit improved very clearly from the year before he got there to his one year there. There is enough to criticize from his short-tenure here without making up an entire fact pattern.
 

TemplarCane

I miss the BLOCK THREAD function
Premium
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
11,715
I am not saying no with Georgia or A&M, but FSU? UF? Our NIL program is as strong as those two. I do not disagree with your comment FWIW. It's kind of hard to refute what McClendon said with what is on tape. I am just saying, it is nuanced these days and they need to figure out what they need to sell or do to attract those kids. In theory, in the bump class they should be able to say "this is how it is supposed to look with you (Innis/Dickey/Williams/etc.) running it, so overlook the current end results and stats." That's obviously not working as of now.

At the end of the day, it is Mario's job to make sure he has the right people and systems in place. He has placed a huge emphasis on "talent acquisition", as he calls it. If Gattis (or anyone else on the staff) is not getting the right guys to sign, whether it is because of system, teaching, relatability, or what, and then they are not developing and putting them in positions to excel, then they need to go.

I think it’s way too early to be critical of Mario and staff’s recruiting. Since hired he’s signed or has verbals from a number players who wouldn‘t have given Miami a second thought. This upcoming class will be the best class in over a decade or more.

That stated, its not possible to build up every position room in one transition class, one bump class, and the portal. Not every evaluation will be spot on, and players need time to be developed.

We fans want the last 15+ years of futility wiped away immediately but that isn’t happening.

Revisit at the end of the season and when recruiting cycle is wrapped up.
 

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
I think it’s way too early to be critical of Mario and staff’s recruiting. Since hired he’s signed or has verbals from a number players who wouldn‘t have given Miami a second thought. This upcoming class will be the best class in over a decade or more.

That stated, its not possible to build up every position room in one transition class, one bump class, and the portal. Not every evaluation will be spot on, and players need time to be developed.

We fans want the last 15+ years of futility wiped away immediately but that isn’t happening.

Revisit at the end of the season and when recruiting cycle is wrapped up.
100% ... and the portal has changed this too. There will be good players to poach. There is a long way to go in recruiting and the season. We know the recruiters are 1) relentless and 2) work targets we have no idea about. We can assume (or hope) the offense will look more cohesive as the season goes along. I was saying all of that second part in a hypothetical. And the reality is, there's a decent chance Mario will have to tweak the staff after this year too, whether it is Gattis or someone else. Whatever it is, I know we have the best person possible to make these decisions.
 

SayWhat

Sophomore
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
7,305
He was WR coach for all of those years. If you want to talk about his play calling and how that impacts our WRs, fair game, or if you want to criticize and question what he has extracted from our WRs, I am with you. To say he never did anything on a prior stop is patently false. There is a reason I asked some of the more respected posters on here about him as our WR coach and not as our playcaller. Specifically, because what we saw from his teaching before getting here as compared to this year is not lining up. To your point about his time at Bama:
-Jeudy went from 14/260/2 to 68/1300/14, AA, and Biletnikoff.
-He had Waddle as a true freshman go for 45/850/7.
-Ruggs had a quiet freshman year (12/230/6) and then went for 46/740/11.
-Smith did nothing as a freshman (8/160/3) and then had 42/700/6.

His unit improved very clearly from the year before he got there to his one year there. There is enough to criticize from his short-tenure here without making up an entire fact pattern.

So you are impressed with his one year at Alabama. Interesting, but I'm not.

All four of the WR's you listed were top 100 recruits. You give that kind of talent to a team with talent at every position, you expect results. All they've done since then and prior is produce.

You're listing improvement with Hurts as a QB to then Tua. That was a historical year passing for the Tide, Tua lit it up. It started the year prior, in particular when he came in and took over to win a national championship.

I'm not going to spend much more time on this, but you literally are hanging your hat on his one year at Bama. You give me a competent OC and all their other units with those guys at WR, you could coach the receivers unit without much of a drop off.

The two important things to a WR are how they're used, who is throwing the ball to them, and lastly how much talent they have. You can work on catching the ball and routes, but if you don't have those other three things you're going to struggle even if you've got all the talent in the world.
 

wspcane

Recruit
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
5,125
So you are impressed with his one year at Alabama. Interesting, but I'm not.

All four of the WR's you listed were top 100 recruits. You give that kind of talent to a team with talent at every position, you expect results. All they've done since then and prior is produce.

You're listing improvement with Hurts as a QB to then Tua. That was a historical year passing for the Tide, Tua lit it up. It started the year prior, in particular when he came in and took over to win a national championship.

I'm not going to spend much more time on this, but you literally are hanging your hat on his one year at Bama. You give me a competent OC and all their other units with those guys at WR, you could coach the receivers unit without much of a drop off.

The two important things to a WR are how they're used, who is throwing the ball to them, and lastly how much talent they have. You can work on catching the ball and routes, but if you don't have those other three things you're going to struggle even if you've got all the talent in the world.
You chose to also ignore that he had a guy at Vanderbilt become an All-SEC wr and success at PSU. My sole point when it comes to your argument is you continue to move the goalposts to suit whatever conclusion you want to reach. It started with he had no success before Michigan. When that was proven otherwise with facts, then it became he was not a coach on staff. When that was proven otherwise with facts, then it became it really didn't matter that he was the WR coach during their year to year improvement because they had Tua. It is ok to say he had some success before here but that is not bearing fruit so far in his time here.

I am not saying he is the answer. I only care so far as to how it impacts our team. Which means, I hope he is a good teacher, recruiter, and technician, and if not, I hope Mario does what is needed and makes a change. To me, it is a little short in time to draw any conclusion right now. It could be a million things given the small sample size. He could be a terrible fit for our players. Or maybe they need more time to adjust to a more complicated system. Or it could be that he is not capable of doing both OC and WR roles. Or it could be that Gattis the OC is undermining Gattis the WR. We will revisit this at the end of the year, hopefully with an offense that is humming and a couple more top end WRs committed.
 

SayWhat

Sophomore
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
7,305
You chose to also ignore that he had a guy at Vanderbilt become an All-SEC wr and success at PSU. My sole point when it comes to your argument is you continue to move the goalposts to suit whatever conclusion you want to reach. It started with he had no success before Michigan. When that was proven otherwise with facts, then it became he was not a coach on staff. When that was proven otherwise with facts, then it became it really didn't matter that he was the WR coach during their year to year improvement because they had Tua. It is ok to say he had some success before here but that is not bearing fruit so far in his time here.

I am not saying he is the answer. I only care so far as to how it impacts our team. Which means, I hope he is a good teacher, recruiter, and technician, and if not, I hope Mario does what is needed and makes a change. To me, it is a little short in time to draw any conclusion right now. It could be a million things given the small sample size. He could be a terrible fit for our players. Or maybe they need more time to adjust to a more complicated system. Or it could be that he is not capable of doing both OC and WR roles. Or it could be that Gattis the OC is undermining Gattis the WR. We will revisit this at the end of the year, hopefully with an offense that is humming and a couple more top end WRs committed.

There's no moving the goalposts, wake up. I made a comment you replied, I then replied to you, etc. You really hung your hat on Bama.

You're trying to make it seem like he's special as a WR coach. He's nothing special, in fact very few are. WR's are only as good as their OC, IMHO. He coaches WR's here. Does he get credit for how they were catching everything or does he not? How then do you account for the A&M game? If he was some mastermind at the position, wouldn't there be consistency? The only real direct comparison to last year is Smith and he's not really done much.

Okay, some guy he didn't recruit at Vanderbilt made an All-SEC team. Great. I posted his draft picks, guys he didn't recruit and at Penn State as well as Michigan. Guess what, nothing changed in that they didn't all of a sudden have a bunch of great WR's. They remained on their usual production levels.

As previously said, OC, QB, and talent is what makes a WR. If you want to think he's some WR whisperer, go for it. They're a dime a dozen.
 
Top