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Here's what I know

RightSaidFred said:
I think a minor league is better, the main reason being injuries. You can be Marcus Lattimore or Willis McGahee and get hurt in college, while getting paid nothing. Sure there are NIL deals nowadays, but it's still not close to the market value these players actually create.

I say you can always go back to college. There is no rule that you have to go when you're 18. In fact, you'll probably get more out of it if you go later in life when you're more mature. If you don't cut it in the minors, then go back to school. ****, I think a lot of minor league baseball teams offer to pay for that as part of the signing package.
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McGahee would've collected $3 million in insurance money had he opted not to go into the draft.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
YES! It's called REPRESENTATION, you heathen! (kidding, of course)

I think most universities have these issues at times. May not always be public. I remember Auburn having some issues with the Yellawood guy and the Colonial Bank guy.
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The Yellawood guy is almost the opposite of some of our issues. He is by far the wealthiest Auburn booster and spends a boat load. Like a T Boone Pickens. He consolidated so much power, along with one or two others (Colonial Bank guy and one other finance exec), that they dictate everything. The AD is essentially their yes man.

Our old neighbors are Auburn alums and filled me in on their firing of Malzahn and search as it was going on. They were going nuclear the whole time, not too dissimilar from us now. They fired Malzahn to wind up with Harsin after striking out on Mario, Napier, Clark, and not promoting Kevin Steele The difference there is the rest of the board knows to shut up and get out of their way when these guys are making moves, even if it leads to some crazy decisions and a lack of a plan. I am really not sure which is better or worse.
 
wspcane said:
The Yellawood guy is almost the opposite of some of our issues. He is by far the wealthiest Auburn booster and spends a boat load. Like a T Boone Pickens. He consolidated so much power, along with one or two others (Colonial Bank guy and one other finance exec), that they dictate everything. The AD is essentially their yes man.

Our old neighbors are Auburn alums and filled me in on their firing of Malzahn and search as it was going on. They were going nuclear the whole time, not too dissimilar from us now. They fired Malzahn to wind up with Harsin after striking out on Mario, Napier, Clark, and not promoting Kevin Steele The difference there is the rest of the board knows to shut up and get out of their way when these guys are making moves, even if it leads to some crazy decisions and a lack of a plan. I am really not sure which is better or worse.
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Agreed.

Small BOT - one person may have disproportionate power
Large BOT - hard to get consistency and a clear mandate

Hands-off BOT - good ADs thrive, bad ADs just sit there
Activist BOT - power clashes and they may not have the expertise to manage Athletics

Money talks - isn't that "the dream", but some people think money buys control
No money - competitive disadvantage, might as well go Division II
 
OldhamA said:
I can't speak for Latin America, but that's simply not true in Europe.

For example, this is the school that Manchester City FC sends all of it's Academy players to: https://sbcm.co.uk/academic/man-city-football-academy/
(Etihad Stadium is just of the screen to the left, the school is that cluster of buildings in the top right).

Clubs that don't operate an Academy at the level of Manchester City simply send their youngsters to a normal school, but ban them from taking part in any organised sports. They train in the evenings.
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Come on now. The "school" is called "Manchester City Football Academy."

The closest analogy, for American readers, would be something like IMG. But you've cherrypicked the one with the best website, I think. And how many of Man City's players even came up through that academy anyway?

And by the way, England hasn't won a world cup since 1966. Maybe that's partly because your academy youths actually spend time studying and less time playing football than their rivals, have you considered that?

And yeah, Brazil is the SEC of soccer. **** that would never fly in England absolutely gets swept under the rug.
 
RightSaidFred said:
Come on now. The "school" is called "Manchester City Football Academy."

The closest analogy, for American readers, would be something like IMG. But you've cherrypicked the one with the best website, I think. And how many of Man City's players even came up through that academy anyway?

And by the way, England hasn't won a world cup since 1966. Maybe that's partly because your academy youths actually spend time studying and less time playing football than their rivals, have you considered that?

And yeah, Brazil is the SEC of soccer. **** that would never fly in England absolutely gets swept under the rug.
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The school is called St Bede's College. I 'cherry picked' it because a) Manchester City have revitalised the East side of Manchester and built their training ground and Academy stadium in the same area (the whole Etihad Campus complex is less than 10 years old) - so it's an example of what THE most committed Premier League teams are doing and b) because the apartment I used to live in when I lived in Manchester is just off screen so I'm well versed with the area.

How many of the Manchester City First Team are Academy graduates? 3 - Phil Foden (England international), Liam Delap and Cole Palmer. This, however, is a club that routinely drops £50m on new players, so the Academy graduate has to be top class to play. That said, this number will increase in the near future as their Academy is producing fantastic players (per their wiki page 7 other graduates have appeared in First XI games this year [I assume Cup games] and they've got another 7 on loan).

England reached the World Cup semi-final in 2018 and the European Championship final in 2021. That's on the back of winning the U17 World Cup in 2017. We're doing ok, thank you.
 
OldhamA said:
Only when the other bloke admits that he's talking *******s.
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:ROFLMAO: Nah, but I'm normally not a fan of OriginalCane, however in this case he has a point. I'm gonna stop talking soccer as I can see it would be annoying and derailing.

Another time and place for this conversation, maybe. It's an interesting discussion.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
See where I disagree are the times. I think during the 80's 90's early 00's......we got the best players. Rankings weren't as accurate no social media and we saw with our eyes who were the best. We have monster evaluators and alphas trying to win. If your an elite recruiter one of the best of the best u can convince a high value target to come to UM after 6 wins.....it just depends how gifted u are. When we won it was because we got the best players and it's as simple as that. Until that changes we won't win I promise u on my life we won't win until that changes.

I have seen all world players like Clowney go to USCw and they do not win ****. Monster targets go to losing programs cause they have bags/"gifted recruiters" who take care of u. What I have heard over the years is Mario knows the game and if he can convince kids to go to OU he can do it here.
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If your definition of win is national championship, I agree with you.

OUR recruiting classes rise and fall with our win count with some exceptions (covid).

Mario will absolutely convince more top players to come. But if he doesn’t translate that into wins, it won’t last. If he was our coach, we would be 9-1 or 8-2 right now. We would have looked a lot better against Bama.

What has me as excited as his recruiting is his leadership and the way he prepares the team. We are not missing all our evals.
 
Cryptical Envelopment said:
Forget the academic scandal while he was there.

What about Blake and his show cause? He was getting paid by an agent. Butch brought him in, that's on him as CEO. Heavy is the head who wears the crown, but that was serious, and he was responsible for hiring him and his actions. Butch admitted he screwed up by hiring him and not doing enough due diligence. That brought a lot of shame to the program and university.

He also had some 6-10 players who were getting paid by agents while at UNC. Thats almost a third of your starters. And that came out before the academic scandal, so the stink was already on the program BEFORE the grades thing came down. And I am not even considering that many feel he absolutely should have known about what was going on with academics and if he didn't know that's just as bad. But don't go there, because as I said I am not even considering that.

It's a bad look for a head coach/CEO and only in Butch circles do they not understand why he was let go. Perception is as important as incidents, and he failed on both counts. It sucks, because he had a lot of success there, and is a good guy, and WAS a good coach, but that's why top coaches and executives are compensated so well. They have to work on the edge, when when it goes south, they have been taken care of.

I think the ultimate gauge on him is the fact that none of the top 129 programs in America (FIU is probably 130 and just fired him) want anything to do with him nor have them for over a decade. It's a pretty liquid market, and it has spoken.
Cryptical Envelopment said:
Forget the academic scandal while he was there.

What about Blake and his show cause? He was getting paid by an agent. Butch brought him in, that's on him as CEO. Heavy is the head who wears the crown, but that was serious, and he was responsible for hiring him and his actions. Butch admitted he screwed up by hiring him and not doing enough due diligence. That brought a lot of shame to the program and university.

He also had some 6-10 players who were getting paid by agents while at UNC. Thats almost a third of your starters. And that came out before the academic scandal, so the stink was already on the program BEFORE the grades thing came down. And I am not even considering that many feel he absolutely should have known about what was going on with academics and if he didn't know that's just as bad. But don't go there, because as I said I am not even considering that.

It's a bad look for a head coach/CEO and only in Butch circles do they not understand why he was let go. Perception is as important as incidents, and he failed on both counts. It sucks, because he had a lot of success there, and is a good guy, and WAS a good coach, but that's why top coaches and executives are compensated so well. They have to work on the edge, when when it goes south, they have been taken care of.

I think the ultimate gauge on him is the fact that none of the top 129 programs in America (FIU is probably 130 and just fired him) want anything to do with him nor have them for over a decade. It's a pretty liquid market, and it has spoken.
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Bull Sheeeiitt.

Butch was hired to coach football - not go full KGB on the pre-existing UNC school programs or go Sam Spade on the full staff, nor can a coach know if players are knowingly dealing with agents.

Can't coach football and go all 007 full time!

This is Butch - the biggest mistake UM made was jerking him around on the closing days of the contract negotiating period.

The biggest mistake UNC made - was firing Butch for something not his fault.

And I don't blame him one bit for not taking another job - and making UNC pay him every dime of his contract - just for spite.
 
Lmaoo but yall told is that things had changed. People told us to Relax. All this big talk and its the same old ****ttt.

I will never believe this program has turned over a new leaf
 
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If Manny Diaz is brought back next year, under ANY circumstance a fan that truly wants to see UM be an elite highly respected program once again, would NOT support the program in ANY way financially until that program acquiesces to our wishes.

I'm sure many of you (as do I) would find the thought of doing that difficult because at the very least you want to support the young men. Unfortunately in this "war" that we are in with the power structure at UM, collateral damage is unavoidable. We may literally have to sacrifice our support of the current young men so that the thousands of future young men that come to the program may actually have a chance to be a part of an elite, well-respected program.

It's sad that we are at this point, but what other option do we have???? I put that question to anyone who believes we should blindly throw our hard-earned money and spare time (what little we have) at a program that cares nothing for our wishes or how many Saturdays they have destroyed for us.

It seems to me, the only thing the power structure at UM seems to understand is BAD PUBLICITY and we can give them that by keeping that stadium completely EMPTY! NEXT YEAR
 
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