X's and O's Guidry's Multiple Nickel Defense: The Basics

With the different sections (boxed areas) having independent calls/assignments, do those sections independently change their assignment (based on something the offense may present) and or are they able to communicate to the other sections as it may cause them them to change something? Just writing that seems complicated and time consuming w the tempo nowadays. Really like the thread, and hope to learn a lot. Thanks
You would drill shifts and motions. Usually before practice you walk through, then during practice you rep it at full speed. It is always part of the game.

In my experience, this system is not more complicated than any others. Your safetys need top be smart, experienced and well coached. It's what's called a "two quarterback system". Most motions will take you from 2x2 to 3x1 and vice versa. All that would mean is you check to a trips coverage, or you check to base from a trips coverage. Not bad at all.

If your guys are dumb or inexperienced, you can just base out of cover 1/3 and let it rip. trips, 2 back, 1 back, it don't matter. Just line up and play.
 
Advertisement
Three questions:

1. While perhaps this better falls into the blitz package convos you wanted to separate, can you touch on why it appears we’re seemingly spot dropping (I don't have the % of this vs pattern matching or any hard statistics)? I acknowledge some of the holes of fire zone blitzes (RIP Bill Young) and we all saw some frustrating instances with Manny Diaz’s spot drops at times, so perhaps you can opine on whether this is because we’re early into Guidry’s implementation/showcase or maybe our players aren’t well-suited or…

2. I’ve mentioned (here: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/23-defensive-pressure-off-the-edge-and-more.185752/) my concerns with our Edge pressure and ability to generate consistent "bend around the edge" upfield pressure. We'd ideally get some pressure without the use of games/stunts/loops/etc. This feels like even more of an issue with Deen and Mesidor (especially) out. Based on what you've seen of Guidry's adjustments, what potential holes do you foresee if we repeatedly have to send 5 or 6 against Maye, Klubnik, and Travis?

3. What are you primary coverage moves in the eventual chess match that includes 6’ 7” Johnny Wilson and a 6’ 3” jumpman like Keon Coleman against what would fairly be described as a mostly undersized CB unit? Cover 2? Then you open yourself up to other issues. Quarters? Just snipe Jordan Travis?
 
I feel like I just stayed in a holiday inn express lol
Can you explain the difference between robber and bronco? Also, a bear front is the equivalent of an 8 man box type deal to stop the run?
Man a whole thread can be made about robber coverage. I love it. Incredible against the run since it places your FS as a primary run defender aligning only 8ish yards off the ball. It was used primarily against 2 backs for a long time but was adapted to 1 back. No one ever blocks the FS. Think Jaquan Johnson on first down.

Probably the simplest way to put it, is it’s a way to match pattern releases to play man coverage with the potential of having deep middle help late if the #2 receiver releases outside. Think if it as an aggressive form of quarters coverage.

Bronco is just a term used by some teams when they want to play man coverage to the away side only. It’s man coverage, with a couple extra rules for certain types of releases back into the formation or a back entering the away side pattern. So a team can play quarters (or whatever else) to the read side, and bronco (man) to the away side.

Bear front is a type of 8 man box that you’re able to get out of this system. You can run an even 44 look with single high or you can run an odd single high look. Bear in this context references the techniques played by the defenders.

1695779734880.gif


People will usually run something like 5/9 on the edge 3/4i at dt and a 0 nose. Something to that effect. Everyone shaded on an offensive lineman except the nose.
 
Three questions:

1. While perhaps this better falls into the blitz package convos you wanted to separate, can you touch on why it appears we’re seemingly spot dropping (I don't have the % of this vs pattern matching or any hard statistics)? I acknowledge some of the holes of fire zone blitzes (RIP Bill Young) and we all saw some frustrating instances with Manny Diaz’s spot drops at times, so perhaps you can opine on whether this is because we’re early into Guidry’s implementation/showcase or maybe our players aren’t well-suited or…

2. I’ve mentioned (here: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/23-defensive-pressure-off-the-edge-and-more.185752/) my concerns with our Edge pressure and ability to generate consistent "bend around the edge" upfield pressure. We'd ideally get some pressure without the use of games/stunts/loops/etc. This feels like even more of an issue with Deen and Mesidor (especially) out. Based on what you've seen of Guidry's adjustments, what potential holes do you foresee if we repeatedly have to send 5 or 6 against Maye, Klubnik, and Travis?

3. What are you primary coverage moves in the eventual chess match that includes 6’ 7” Johnny Wilson and a 6’ 3” jumpman like Keon Coleman against what would fairly be described as a mostly undersized CB unit? Cover 2? Then you open yourself up to other issues. Quarters? Just snipe Jordan Travis?
1. Fire zone lends itself to this. Everyone knows the flats are empty. You need to pick your battles. You’re down a player, so you need to reroute the seams and take away the deeper stuff. It’s if you can’t fool the QB with the coverage rotation and you can’t get pressure, you’re probably giving up a first down. Your pursuit and tackling needs to be good.

If it’s not working, you can try a cover 1 pressure, which we have done too. Might get tighter coverage, but that’s a whole other can of worms. D gap blitzers needs to peel on backs, which have hurt us a good amount. It’s like cover zero but with someone there to stop a touchdown.

2. It’s obvious Guidry is trying to drum up pressure. It’s staggering the amount of games we play to create confusion. We’re stemming presnap, we’re regularly in odd fronts. It’s clear. He knows we don’t have guys that can just line up and get pressure consistently. I hope we keep getting tight on the techniques. First three games it was tons of stemming and odd front stuff, then last game he whipped out a ton of drop 8. We need to get better at it. It’s clear he loves using it as a change up.

3. Game plan to stop counter—run to the ball and tackle. Pray the corners hold up in man coverage. Pray we get pressure. Pray we’re healthy. I’m only 1/4 joking. This odd front stuff we’re doing where we slant 4 and play base coverage behind it, is pretty dope against the run. It messes with man blocking assignments heavy. I just hope we do our job consistently with our movement techniques and gap assessments on the next level. FSU really tests you in the run game.
 
Advertisement


Foreword:
Some of you know me from many, many years back where I would create the occasional instructional post on defensive football. I don't want to go on too much about my resume, but I can say I have some good coaching or playing experience with the following systems: Gary Patterson 425; Bud Foster 43 over; Charlie Strong 43 under; 34 2-gap and slant. The bulk of my training and experience is in what one would call a traditional 425. Respectfully, I feel somewhat qualified to share my ideas and knowledge with respect to the same.

DISCLAIMER FOR THE ENSUING DISCUSSION:
*The bulk of this discussion relates to base defense--any type of blitz pressure involves a different conversation (which we can have)*

*Be aware of language barriers--you and others may be saying the same thing, but using different words. Don't play a word game with someone*
*I don't know what happens behind closed doors in Guidry's meeting rooms--thus, I can only present my past experiences and in-game observations*

Introduction:
There is a lot to talk about--and I want to start with the basics.

Coach Guidry and Coach Patterson (imo the father of the 425) share a lot of similarities in temperament, philosophy and defensive system (aka "skeem"). It's my opinion that Coach Guidry's system is a natural progression from prior iterations of the 425. FWIW, Guidry might even refer to his system as a 43. Regardless, through 4 games, based on what I can see, we are functioning like a 425. I want to talk about nickel based defense generally and what I can glean from Guidry's system. Coach Guidry, if you're listening, I'd love to sit down and pick your brain over lunch.

Nickel Defense Generally:
As I've stated in other posts, the 425 is a sectional, no-huddle defense, with a lot of moving parts turning it into a bit of an amorphous blob. It can be a 44, 43, 42, 33, 52, Bear, etc. all in the same personnel grouping. This is is not necessarily unique to the 425--but I would argue this system provides the most flexibility today based on the current state of CFB. I am not a proponent of 33 based nickel defenses, which is the subject of another topic of conversation.

Generally, when sending base 4 man pressure, the front's responsibilities are completely independent of the secondary's. Taking it a step further, the secondary can feature split field coverage, meaning the one half of the secondary's responsibilities are independent of the other half's responsibilities. Everything is taught sectionally. One position group would have to learn as little of 8-15 terms/concepts.

For example, the below illustrations generally outline the concept of split field coverage. The free safety calls the passing strength "read side" based on formation, personnel and ball placement. The "away side" defaults as the weak side. The assignments are independent of each other, unless the call is for a mirrored coverage (cov1, cov3). Each yellow box functions independent of each other.


View attachment 258551

Below is an example of TCU's base coverage being played to the "read side", and man coverage being played to the "away side". *OJO... Their use of the term "cover 2" actually means "cover 2-invert". A whole thread can be made about this distinction.*

View attachment 258552

The play call complexity lands on the coach, where it is usually relayed to the defense in sentence format. In some occasions, two coaches are making the play call: the front, stunts and blitzes are handled by one coach and the coverage call is handled by another coach. Each position group looks for their key term(s) and they execute their key term(s). Complex for the coach, simple for the players. This is a sample call sentence, which can be numerated on a call card or individually signaled:

Blast Tite (g) toro; Read 2/Blue

Blast=9 tech for strong side end
Tite=strength is called toward TE
Toro=DT movement towards the strength
(g)= 2i tech for nose tackle
Read 2=read side plays Cov2 invert
/Blue=away side plays quarters

Here is a sample card used by the coach and players. It provides a good summary of front/movement terms:

View attachment 258550

'T' words represent movement towards the front strength
'A' words represent movement away from the front strength
Bullets are blitzes involving both linebackers
Dogs bring one linebacker and one safety
Smokes bring the strong safety and weak safety

The strength can be called based on whatever you want:
Left/Right
Field/Boundary
Tite/Split
Passing strength/weakness
Offset back
Fullback
Wing
A specific player
Whatever you want!

Alignment--Where Patterson and Guidry Meet:
[BGCOLOR=initial]I can't stress enough the importance of proper alignment and teaching your guys to do so quickly and with confidence. The latter of what I said gets addressed with the robust language system I touched upon above and repetition/experience. Several posts could be made about proper defensive back, linebacker and defensive lineman alignment. [/BGCOLOR]

[BGCOLOR=initial][BGCOLOR=initial]This post focuses on the versatility of Guidry's system and his maximizing of nickel personnel in today's CFB. Regarding the remainder of this post, it is foundational to understand that the hash marks in CFB are similar to high school in that they are at least double the width of the NFL. The wide sides of the field are more wide and the short sides of the field are more short. In my opinion, Guidry takes advantage of this. See the two illustrations below: [/BGCOLOR][/BGCOLOR]

[BGCOLOR=initial]View attachment 258563[/BGCOLOR]
[BGCOLOR=initial]View attachment 258565[/BGCOLOR]

[BGCOLOR=initial]Regarding alignment, for purposes of this post, we will discuss the first step of alignment rules or "pre-alignment" based on placement of the ball in relation to the hash mark. As discussed in past [/BGCOLOR][BGCOLOR=initial]posts, the nickel based systems feature a "five spoke" secondary. Those five spokes are (from field to boundary): field corner, strong/field safety (Star or Nickel or Sam), free safety, weak/boundary safety, and boundary corner]. Every position pre-aligns based on placement of the ball in relation to the hash. [/BGCOLOR]

[BGCOLOR=initial]Generally, the strong safety (Star or Nickel or Sam) is always inverted; the free safety is always deep; and the weak safety does both (but always to the short side of the field). See below:[/BGCOLOR]
[BGCOLOR=initial]View attachment 258559[/BGCOLOR]
The diagram above shows how easily the secondary shell can change without ever losing structural integrity. Generally speaking, the diagram above shows all alignment possibilities for each of the safety positions--not very much. Again, Patterson refers to this as the "five-spoke" secondary because of its ability to easily shift or rotate, while keeping its structural integrity.

From what I gather, Guidry runs the "five-spoke" concept at times. He also runs a good amount of mirrored coverages, which break this rule. I have seen a healthy amount of man-free, which would flip the strong safety/nickel to the boundary from time to time. However, even when Guidry runs man-free, his front appears to be operating independently of the the coverage.

Guidry takes the "five-spoke" concept and applies it to the front. It seems Guidry plays with the following pre-alignment rules:

Field Corner
Field Safety (Nickel/Star/Sam)
Free Safety (rolls to strength)
[BGCOLOR=initial]Boundary Safety[/BGCOLOR]
[BGCOLOR=initial]Boundary Corner[/BGCOLOR]

[BGCOLOR=initial]Field Defensive End[/BGCOLOR]
[BGCOLOR=initial]Defensive Tackle (flip-flop's on strength call)[/BGCOLOR]
Nose Tackle (flip-flop's on strength call)
Boundary Defensive End

Strong Inside Linebacker (flip-flop's on strength call)
Weak Inside Linebacker (flip-flop's on strength call)

See the illustration below for an example where Guidry uses an odd front using base nickel personnel. Because of these alignment rules, Guidry is able to create multiple levels of hybrid positions:

View attachment 258576


(From boundary to field)
#2, #20, #5, [?CB]
#51
#12, #81, #99, #3, #31 (LB)


At first glance, we see a bear or 50 front--it's obviously not an even look by any means. This the the perfect example of Guidry manipulating the front to drum up "pressure" and keeping the secondary largely unmolested. The play-call involved the inside backer (#31) bringing pressure of the field edge, while the boundary defensive end (#12) added to the coverage scheme. Obviously, the result of this play was a first down for TAMU, but it created pressure without having to bring an extra guy.

What can we learn from this illustration and our play after 4 games:
1. The front is virtually always pre-aligned in a position to drop 8.

2. We have multiple hybrid positions on display and being developed:
-a. boundary defensive end: athleticism of guys like N. Kelly and J. Harvey can be used create enough doubt when disguising pressure out of an odd front. They can play coverage in a condensed field. It allows our bigger guys like Mesidor and Bain to play to their strengths.
-b. boundary safety: this is the do everything position. It is tailor made for someone like James Williams. He can play deep on a condensed hash, he can play off the edge in underneath coverage, or he can come play in the box in a bear front.
-c. field safety (Star/Nickel): this is the hybrid Sam/Nickel position. A whole post can be made about this position. So many people can play it--it is more about mentality than anything else. Preferrable you want a twitchy corner with good ball skills, that is tough as nails.
-d. weak inside linebacker (need to evaluate this more): I need to evaluate this more, but I suspect Guidry wants a true Mike backer (#51), but this position might be getting developed into someone instinctual enough the fill a B gap and cutback lanes, but also skilled enough to come off the edge. I'm not sure yet, but it seems Guidry really likes using bear fronts--and this position would be the extra edge player.
3. Because of 2, we are able to play multiple fronts, allowing us to put our players in the best position to succeed.

Multiplicity, but simplicity

...ok I'm tired of writing. Let's elaborate on these topics in the discussion. See you tonight, @DMoney @Peter Ariz

My post:

View attachment 258580

I had no idea you had this in you lol. This was amazing work.
 
Advertisement
You would drill shifts and motions. Usually before practice you walk through, then during practice you rep it at full speed. It is always part of the game.

In my experience, this system is not more complicated than any others. Your safetys need top be smart, experienced and well coached. It's what's called a "two quarterback system". Most motions will take you from 2x2 to 3x1 and vice versa. All that would mean is you check to a trips coverage, or you check to base from a trips coverage. Not bad at all.

If your guys are dumb or inexperienced, you can just base out of cover 1/3 and let it rip. trips, 2 back, 1 back, it don't matter. Just line up and play.
Great point on safeties being experienced. I’ve posted this since KK has been out. The secondary hasn’t looked the same with plenty of busts. There’s also a reason why I wouldn’t expect some of the younger guys to play as much going forward. It’s not complicated but you MUST be on the same page as the other ten guys or a catastrophe will happen and fast. Some of the younger guys just aren’t picking things up.

If we loose our starting safeties next year there‘ll be a lot of growing pains.
 
Great point on safeties being experienced. I’ve posted this since KK has been out. The secondary hasn’t looked the same with plenty of busts. There’s also a reason why I wouldn’t expect some of the younger guys to play as much going forward. It’s not complicated but you MUST be on the same page as the other ten guys or a catastrophe will happen and fast. Some of the younger guys just aren’t picking things up.

If we loose our starting safeties next year there‘ll be a lot of growing pains.
Expecting a complete rebuild of that room like we’ve seen with the OL two transfers minimum with at least 3 from highschool
 
@WestEndzone this was awesome. Thanks man.

In your opinion what do we lack that would take this defense to another level personnel wise? Just curious as to what you think is needed recruiting or portal wise?
 
@WestEndzone this was awesome. Thanks man.

In your opinion what do we lack that would take this defense to another level personnel wise? Just curious as to what you think is needed recruiting or portal wise?
Biggest problem is by far is depth. We’re already seeing the depth problems right now at safety and DL.

Aside from that, I would like to see some more elite bodies on the DL, which will always be a struggle. Those guys don’t grow on trees.

Do we have another Kiko on the roster? I don’t think so. We need to recruit or develop that. We have a ton of young guys there and some veteran depth with physical deficiencies (#11 and #4).
 
Advertisement
Great point on safeties being experienced. I’ve posted this since KK has been out. The secondary hasn’t looked the same with plenty of busts. There’s also a reason why I wouldn’t expect some of the younger guys to play as much going forward. It’s not complicated but you MUST be on the same page as the other ten guys or a catastrophe will happen and fast. Some of the younger guys just aren’t picking things up.

If we loose our starting safeties next year there‘ll be a lot of growing pains.
This is why James Williams got a bad rap initially. An 18 year old kid playing safety is very far from ideal. Then he had the shoulder thing. Turn on a tape of a young Ed Reed. He was getting torched left and right.

When I coached, I couldn’t do **** if I had inexperienced or dumb safeties. I was a lot smarter when I had the do it all type guys. With smart guys, they can run the defense for you. You teach them the game plan, and they run the show on the field.
 
This is why James Williams got a bad rap initially. An 18 year old kid playing safety is very far from ideal. Then he had the shoulder thing. Turn on a tape of a young Ed Reed. He was getting torched left and right.

When I coached, I couldn’t do **** if I had inexperienced or dumb safeties. I was a lot smarter when I had the do it all type guys. With smart guys, they can run the defense for you. You teach them the game plan, and they run the show on the field.
There’s a reason LG wanted a certain safety from another school in the portal and took him to Tulane and Marshall.
 
Advertisement
Biggest problem is by far is depth. We’re already seeing the depth problems right now at safety and DL.

Aside from that, I would like to see some more elite bodies on the DL, which will always be a struggle. Those guys don’t grow on trees.

Do we have another Kiko on the roster? I don’t think so. We need to recruit or develop that. We have a ton of young guys there and some veteran depth with physical deficiencies (#11 and #4).
Hopefully some of these young LB’s who seem to be athletic kids develop with a full season and another spring under their belt.

To me it seems the greatest advantage of this defense is to your point the multiplicity and the different looks we can create with the same personnel on the field. Love that Mario went this direction with both coordinator hires.

Excited to see what this defense can do in ACC play. Hopefully we clean up the busts in the secondary with Kam back. Those guys will need to be ready for some of these passing attacks.
 
This is why James Williams got a bad rap initially. An 18 year old kid playing safety is very far from ideal. Then he had the shoulder thing. Turn on a tape of a young Ed Reed. He was getting torched left and right.

When I coached, I couldn’t do **** if I had inexperienced or dumb safeties. I was a lot smarter when I had the do it all type guys. With smart guys, they can run the defense for you. You teach them the game plan, and they run the show on the field.
It’s crazy, you used to need your linebackers to be the brains of the defense, but I’d 1000% take a brain at safety who can run the defense over a linebacker in 2023.
 
It’s crazy, you used to need your linebackers to be the brains of the defense, but I’d 1000% take a brain at safety who can run the defense over a linebacker in 2023.
I would say you need both--but definitely the secondary needs to be adaptive as ever. I will make a post about this one day, but something as simple as alignment to the formation is something that takes time to perfect. They need to understand spacing and be in position to do their job--an improper alignment can take you completely out of a play. Improper alignment can mess with your run fits, your coverage leverage, so much.

Needless to say, we're a different defense without KK.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top