Golden v Shannon

[lauderdaleballer]

If we have a new coach next year, Al will have left him in alot better shape talentwise than Randy left Al. Randy left Al an overflowing port-o-let.

Actually, Coach Shannon left him a ton of talent. Coach Golden turned them all off and they left. He has done the same thing with nearly half of his own recruits since he's been here.

Hard to argue that. Look at the kids drafted after Al's year 1:

2011 2 46 Orlando Franklin T Denver Broncos
2011 2 60 Brandon Harris DB Houston Texans
2011 3 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Washington Redskins
2011 3 81 DeMarcus Van Dyke DB Oakland Raiders
2011 3 86 Allen Bailey DE Kansas City Chiefs
2011 4 109 Colin McCarthy LB Tennessee Titans
2011 6 181 Richard Gordon TE Oakland Raiders
2011 6 192 Matt Bosher P Atlanta Falcons

I wouldn't say those guys were ultra-productive at the college level but 7 draftable kids off of 1 team should lead to better results, if the new staff is a better coaching staff than the previous one.

What's not shown here is the roster holes that Randy left Al but Al created alot of his own holes with all of the attrition.

Outside of Gordon, everyone on that list was extremely productive on the college level... DVD may not have accumulated a lot of pics but he was rarely caught on... Even if you count him everyone else was extremely productive... RS left some holes but he also left a team with plenty of talent that should have won more than 6 games... We wasn't losing games in 2011 due to lack of talent... We were losing because of bad coaching... We should have won no less than 11 games... Each year since then we have regressed... If it wasn't for the cupcake row in 2013 we would have lost more than 4 games...

 

[ScubaCane]

Are you playing this game during the day or at night? That **** matters

 

[ThomasM]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

 

[Bigtip]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

we are about to see a drop off in talent very similar to what happened at the end of Randy's tenure since C-A-G has been retained for at least 1 year too long.

the 2015 class is pure garbage. hes missed so many RBs and WRs I've lost count. not to mention DTs LOL. **** even the future on the OL looks shaky as ****.

the 2016 class will fall apart as this season unfolds. if UM waits too long to fire his *** and bring in a real coach (like Butch mid-season), then the 2016 class will be garbage as well.

2 garbage classes back to back gives you a 2012-esque roster

 

[The Franchise]

Why do people think the team is in better shape now than when Al took over? That isn't true... Please stop saying that... .

People say that because they've been brainwashed into believing Coach Shannon was a terrible recruiter and was lazy (conscious and subconscious racism) and that Coach Golden is a great recruiter and program builder because he speaks well and won 8 games at Temple and had Muhammed Wilkerson on his team.

 

[The Franchise]

If we have a new coach next year, Al will have left him in alot better shape talentwise than Randy left Al. Randy left Al an overflowing port-o-let.

Actually, Coach Shannon left him a ton of talent. Coach Golden turned them all off and they left. He has done the same thing with nearly half of his own recruits since he's been here.

Hard to argue that. Look at the kids drafted after Al's year 1:

2011 2 46 Orlando Franklin T Denver Broncos
2011 2 60 Brandon Harris DB Houston Texans
2011 3 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Washington Redskins
2011 3 81 DeMarcus Van Dyke DB Oakland Raiders
2011 3 86 Allen Bailey DE Kansas City Chiefs
2011 4 109 Colin McCarthy LB Tennessee Titans
2011 6 181 Richard Gordon TE Oakland Raiders
2011 6 192 Matt Bosher P Atlanta Falcons

I wouldn't say those guys were ultra-productive at the college level but 7 draftable kids off of 1 team should lead to better results, if the new staff is a better coaching staff than the previous one.

What's not shown here is the roster holes that Randy left Al but Al created alot of his own holes with all of the attrition.

Outside of Gordon, everyone on that list was extremely productive on the college level... DVD may not have accumulated a lot of pics but he was rarely caught on... Even if you count him everyone else was extremely productive... RS left some holes but he also left a team with plenty of talent that should have won more than 6 games... We wasn't losing games in 2011 due to lack of talent... We were losing because of bad coaching... We should have won no less than 11 games... Each year since then we have regressed... If it wasn't for the cupcake row in 2013 we would have lost more than 4 games...

Correct.

We fired Coach Shannon for a reason. He wasn't achieving results commensurate with the talent level on the team. We didn't fire him because we thought he was getting everything he could out of the players we have access to.

We hired a new coach with the idea that he would get better results with that talent and bring in better talent. The new coach has not achieved either of those goals.

 

[The Franchise]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. .

The exact same problem we have now.

 

[duke4heisman]

Why do people think the team is in better shape now than when Al took over? That isn't true... Please stop saying that... .

People say that because they've been brainwashed into believing Coach Shannon was a terrible recruiter and was lazy (conscious and subconscious racism) and that Coach Golden is a great recruiter and program builder because he speaks well and won 8 games at Temple and had Muhammed Wilkerson on his team.

BINGO. He's white, speaks well and wears a tie; exactly what this pussified administration wants. Who cares about winning?

 

[ThomasM]

We'll see. I think the 2014 class was very solid, though. 2015 wasn't spectacular, but we did get some players that will start down the road. If the 2016 class falls apart with mounting losses, UM will have to make a move quickly. I just don't think they will. This administration is the same one that hired the last three coaches. I have no faith in them making a timely fire, or good hire.

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

we are about to see a drop off in talent very similar to what happened at the end of Randy's tenure since C-A-G has been retained for at least 1 year too long.

the 2015 class is pure garbage. hes missed so many RBs and WRs I've lost count. not to mention DTs LOL. **** even the future on the OL looks shaky as ****.

the 2016 class will fall apart as this season unfolds. if UM waits too long to fire his *** and bring in a real coach (like Butch mid-season), then the 2016 class will be garbage as well.

2 garbage classes back to back gives you a 2012-esque roster

 

[PatrickCane]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

This sums up my feelings in a much more eloquent manner than I could have. Kudos

 

[NVA CANE]

Shannon had better coaches on his staff and left Al with enough talent to not lose 6 games in his first season.

Shannon was garbage, but golden makes Shannon look like nick saban. I truly believe golden is among the ten worst college coaches in college football history. It's not just the poor game day coaching, it's the utter disregard for his recruiting base and the ignoring of what has historically worked.

 

[MIA42178]

Imagine Golden+Donofrio versus Urban+Strong

Now stop this nonsense.

 

[poncho0091]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

Shannon left talent. I can agree with the lack of depth when he left, but what can you expect when almost the entire team left early, and the prior year's recruiting class fell apart due to losing and the firing of the HC. With all that said, give Randy some credit. Some of you don't realize how bare the cupboard was when Randy took over. It was worse imo than what Golden got. There were a few key players, but there was no depth and Randy did not inherit that many good starters as what Golden got.

 

[PatrickCane]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

Shannon left talent. I can agree with the lack of depth when he left, but what can you expect when almost the entire team left early, and the prior year's recruiting class fell apart due to losing and the firing of the HC. With all that said, give Randy some credit. Some of you don't realize how bare the cupboard was when Randy took over. It was worse imo than what Golden got. There were a few key players, but there was no depth and Randy did not inherit that many good starters as what Golden got.

You do realize that Randy was in a very high position on the staff that left him no talent when he took over, right?

 

[ThomasM]

Randy helped build the mess he inherited, and was reason number one he shouldn't have been hired. It's downright eery how similar the team he inherited looked like the team he left. His fingerprints were all over both.

And no, I don't think this roster has the holes in it that we saw 3-4 years ago. LB depth is an issue, due to bone heads getting kicked off the team, not due to not recruiting the position. You simply can't know how these kids will behave when they get on campus. If they were at FSU, they'd still be playing. Is that what you want? I don't. We have a QB with an NFL future. Something we never had under Shannon. We have talent at WR, and more on the way. We have three quality RBs. We have a solid O-line. Believe me, this O-line is far better than what we saw 10 years ago. Tyler McMeans, anyone? We have TEs that will be fine. I believe Dobard has really nice potential, and the extra reps will serve him well. Our D-line talent is as good and deep as we have seen in many, many years. Problem is, we ALL hate the way they are asked to play. Our secondary, while not terribly deep, is very talented. That is certainly not something we could have said 3-4 years ago.

I just don't see the horrible gaping holes that some are talking about. I see an improved roster, top to bottom. What I DON'T see are improved win totals. That's the bottom line, and that is what Golden will be judged on. It won't be roster management.

 

[poncho0091]

There was some talent on the roster, but there was little to no depth behind the talent you speak of. "Some holes"?? You mean like... DEFENSE? We're not talking about just a position or two, we're talking that entire side was devoid of talent after those kids left after Golden's first season. The best kids on D were true freshmen in 2012, because there was NO talent left. Shannon's recruiting after that one good class in 2008, which was the most disappointing class in UM history, went straight into the toilet. Rankings be damned, those classes were terrible.

So let's talk about the talent Randy left in terms of underclassmen that should have been starting in 2012-2014. Where were they? You guys like to talk about the handful of upperclassmen, who were underachievers to put it nicely. Now, what about the rest of the roster?

I'm mad as **** about Golden not getting wins with the talent he has put together, because he has put a talented team together. Randy had some talent, but the cupboard was running dry in a hurry. I was mad at Randy for not recruiting and developing players well, and losing, and I'm mad at Golden for losing with what I believe is a more solid roster. They both fail, just in slightly different fashion.

So yes, I believe the next coach will get a team that doesn't have the glaring holes we saw in 2012, AND a good crop on NFL talent. A good coach will be able to win right away, and no matter how much you want to kid yourselves, that wasn't going to happen with the roster we saw a few years ago. Vince Lombardi couldn't turn that chicken crap into chicken salad. Next coach will at least have some meat on the roster.

Shannon left talent. I can agree with the lack of depth when he left, but what can you expect when almost the entire team left early, and the prior year's recruiting class fell apart due to losing and the firing of the HC. With all that said, give Randy some credit. Some of you don't realize how bare the cupboard was when Randy took over. It was worse imo than what Golden got. There were a few key players, but there was no depth and Randy did not inherit that many good starters as what Golden got.

You do realize that Randy was in a very high position on the staff that left him no talent when he took over, right?

You understand that's like blaming Coley for the roster he inherits if he were to take over as head coach sometime (no I don't want that). yes he plays a part, but in the end he is not the one who makes the final choices.

 

[poncho0091]

Randy helped build the mess he inherited, and was reason number one he shouldn't have been hired. It's downright eery how similar the team he inherited looked like the team he left. His fingerprints were all over both.

And no, I don't think this roster has the holes in it that we saw 3-4 years ago. LB depth is an issue, due to bone heads getting kicked off the team, not due to not recruiting the position. You simply can't know how these kids will behave when they get on campus. If they were at FSU, they'd still be playing. Is that what you want? I don't. We have a QB with an NFL future. Something we never had under Shannon. We have talent at WR, and more on the way. We have three quality RBs. We have a solid O-line. Believe me, this O-line is far better than what we saw 10 years ago. Tyler McMeans, anyone? We have TEs that will be fine. I believe Dobard has really nice potential, and the extra reps will serve him well. Our D-line talent is as good and deep as we have seen in many, many years. Problem is, we ALL hate the way they are asked to play. Our secondary, while not terribly deep, is very talented. That is certainly not something we could have said 3-4 years ago.

I just don't see the horrible gaping holes that some are talking about. I see an improved roster, top to bottom. What I DON'T see are improved win totals. That's the bottom line, and that is what Golden will be judged on. It won't be roster management.

He inherited a bunch of recruits who busted, especially on offense. Coker's firing is not because people didn't feel like we had no talent, it's because he lost control of the team and we were losing. People talk about the cloud, but randy also inherited an unofficial cloud. Players involved in shootings, players getting killed, fiu brawl. People's biggest fears about this being thug u were looking true and people didn't want their kid coming to school here. Anyone think that had no effect on recruiting or the team environment is fooling themselves.

I'm not saying randy didn't create his own issues. Just like al, winning fixes many things, but randy got handed a much worse deal than golden and he was a first time HC. Everyone expected us to be that championship team still within randy's first 2 years not realizing how bad our team actually was, not curbing expectations at all, not giving him time to learn on the job while Golden essentially had 0 expectations his first 2 years other than to stay here and on his second head coach gig. Randy needed a 9 win season against much better teams than what golden faced to get an extension while golden just had to say the cloud after 6 wins to get one. I'm amazed at how low expectations have gotten with golden at the helm. They were not this low at any point when randy was here.

 

[Bigtip]

Shannon had better coaches on his staff and left Al with enough talent to not lose 6 games in his first season.

Shannon was garbage, but golden makes Shannon look like nick saban. I truly believe golden is among the ten worst college coaches in college football history. It's not just the poor game day coaching, it's the utter disregard for his recruiting base and the ignoring of what has historically worked.

all you need to know is that he had 2 defenses ranked in the bottom 10th percentile of college football at Miami.

that is simply unfathomable

 

[Canesfan1899]

Neither is worth a ****.

 

[SFbayCane]

Golden has blue eyes.

He'd win.