Goat

[orange&green84]

Lol
Brees couldn’t even beat Goff at HOME two weeks ago
He looked like ****
And NE would have run right over NO fyi
Rams D was a more
Formidable task

Saints had the 14th ranked defense. Rams the 20th this season. Try harder, pumpkin.

2018 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2018 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[orange&green84]

Lmfao
Checkmate I guess if that’s all you got
Get back to school and find me the GOAT according to your expert analysis

Don't need to prove anything to you, I've provided my input and data to back it up. Brady didn't do **** this SB, yet everyone's clamoring to make him the GOAT. Belichick's the real GOAT if we're being serious. But you're apparently not, so I'm not going to waste my time with you.

 

[CaneOil]

Brady also has had defenses that are littered with future hall of famers and had Moss and Gronkoswki. Brady didn't exactly take scrubs to all of these SBs. New England's offenses also highlight slot receivers like Wes Welker and now Julian Edelman.

Moss was heading toward the end of his career and was not a part of a super bowl win with the pats, nice try. Gronk is legit but was only there for 3 of his super bowls wins. You can also see he isn't the same player now, getting close to the end of his career. Wes Welker was nothing until he played with Brady. Edelman didn't do anything until Welker left but he did win 3 super bowls. You really are reaching. You think San Fran was not loaded with talent? Your argument is getting weaker by the post.

 

[orange&green84]

Moss was heading toward the end of his career and was not a part of a super bowl win with the pats, nice try. Gronk is legit but was only there for 3 of his super bowls wins. You can also see he isn't the same player now, getting close to the end of his career now. Wes Welker was nothing until he played with Brady. Edelman didn't do anything until Welker left but he did win 3 super bowls. You really are reaching. You think San Fran was not loaded with talent? Your argument is getting weaker by the post.

You're a joke.

Moss had his best year in NE back in 2007. The three years he was there, he had over 1000 yards each season. They went to the SB to face Eli and the Giants and loss 17-14. Brady had arguably the 2nd/3rd best WR all-time on his team, and lost where they could only muster up 14 points. Wes Welker didn't do anything prior to getting to NE because he was on the Phins; they never know how to use anyone right.

Edelman's only been on the Pats, so of course he didn't do anything prior to. He had to sit behind Welker. Guess what Berrios is doing right now? Sitting behind Edelman. Once he's washed in a year or two, Belichick's going to cut him and have Berrios take over.

Gronk's almost a sure-fire 1st ballot HOFer. Please stop.

My overall premise is that Brady had talent with him his entire career since we're talking about team accolades. He at one point had a top 2/3 all-time WR, and didn't win a SB.

Brady had the luxury of having a defensive mastermind in Belichick which his defenses were the primary reason they won the first 2 of the 3 SBs. You could make the argument for this one as well.

Again - Brady's a Mount Rushmore QB, but he's not the clear GOAT. I really don't know how often I have to type this to where you guys can grasp this. And to be clear, I don't think there is a legitimate GOAT at QB given that context has to be considered as well as the fact that the Pats are the best ran organization in football. You put Brady on the Jags or the Raiders, I guarantee you he doesn't have the same success.

 

[CaneOil]

You're a joke.

Moss had his best year in NE back in 2007. The three years he was there, he had over 1000 yards each season. They went to the SB to face Eli and the Giants and loss 17-14. Brady had arguably the 2nd/3rd best WR all-time on his team, and lost where they could only muster up 14 points. Wes Welker didn't do anything prior to getting to NE because he was on the Phins; they never know how to use anyone right.

Edelman's only been on the Pats, so of course he didn't do anything prior to. He had to sit behind Welker. Guess what Berrios is doing right now? Sitting behind Edelman. Once he's washed in a year or two, Belichick's going to cut him and have Berrios take over.

Gronk's almost a sure-fire 1st ballot HOFer. Please stop.

My overall premise is that Brady had talent with him his entire career since we're talking about team accolades. He at one point had a top 2/3 all-time WR, and didn't win a SB.

Brady had the luxury of having a defensive mastermind in Belichick which his defenses were the primary reason they won the first 2 of the 3 SBs. You could make the argument for this one as well.

Again - Brady's a Mount Rushmore QB, but he's not the clear GOAT. I really don't know how often I have to type this to where you guys can grasp this. And to be clear, I don't think there is a legitimate GOAT at QB given that context has to be considered as well as the fact that the Pats are the best ran organization in football. You put Brady on the Jags or the Raiders, I guarantee you he doesn't have the same success.

Like I said he was not part of a NE super bowl win. Facts are getting in the way for you. Hard to argue against all your nonsense. He's got them to 9 super bowls in 18 years. That' half of all super bowls in 18 years nobody even close to that.

 

[Cookie917]

You're a joke.

Moss had his best year in NE back in 2007. The three years he was there, he had over 1000 yards each season. They went to the SB to face Eli and the Giants and loss 17-14. Brady had arguably the 2nd/3rd best WR all-time on his team, and lost where they could only muster up 14 points. Wes Welker didn't do anything prior to getting to NE because he was on the Phins; they never know how to use anyone right.

Edelman's only been on the Pats, so of course he didn't do anything prior to. He had to sit behind Welker. Guess what Berrios is doing right now? Sitting behind Edelman. Once he's washed in a year or two, Belichick's going to cut him and have Berrios take over.

Gronk's almost a sure-fire 1st ballot HOFer. Please stop.

My overall premise is that Brady had talent with him his entire career since we're talking about team accolades. He at one point had a top 2/3 all-time WR, and didn't win a SB.

Brady had the luxury of having a defensive mastermind in Belichick which his defenses were the primary reason they won the first 2 of the 3 SBs. You could make the argument for this one as well.

Again - Brady's a Mount Rushmore QB, but he's not the clear GOAT. I really don't know how often I have to type this to where you guys can grasp this. And to be clear, I don't think there is a legitimate GOAT at QB given that context has to be considered as well as the fact that the Pats are the best ran organization in football. You put Brady on the Jags or the Raiders, I guarantee you he doesn't have the same success.

I give it to you that you are smart in arguing a position you can't lose lol of course you can poke holes in a resume, and have the same argument of if "Named QB" was on the Jags or Raiders, they wouldn't have had the same success but you also hedge in saying there is no GOAT at QB so you could have this same argument with ANY name thrown out there and still be technically correct.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

IDK a couple of your statements seem over the top and take away from what I think is an otherwise valid argument....

Calling the Rams offense incompetent for that game is fine, but prior to that game Mcvay was the wizz-kid, offensive mastermind and the rams that averaged the second most points in the league this year at 32 only scored 3 is also a big credit to the defense. If the Rams scored TD's on 3 straight possession, you still think Brady has those numbers? Of course not, they then start pushing the ball downfield and the whole gameplan changes.

Then you say "not that close" for Brady being considered the GOAT... even opposing players say how well Brady is able to diagnose a defense. Belichick is known for his defenses, not like there has been one OC the entire time for Brady, and his record of having the ball inside of two minutes down by a score is insane.

I agree with what you're saying but who cares what happened prior to that game? In that game, their offense was awful, and it was dominated by Belichick's scheme (Sean McVay has said 50 times since how badly he was outcoached). But in the biggest game of the year, Brady and the Pats were almost as bad. And how would the whole gameplan change? The Patriots were in a 1 score game for the first 59 minutes of the football game, and they threw the ball 35 times. Does that seem conservative to you? You're really going to sit here and say that Brady's average at best performance was because the Rams weren't scoring? The GOAT...the best QB to ever play the position in the history of the sport, playing what you just called the wizz-kid coach of the 2nd highest scoring offense in football, in a year when more points were scored than any other EVER...your argument is the Pats played conservative in a 3 point game in the Super Bowl? That might be my favorite one so far.

And of course, for the 700th time, I never said Brady wasn't great. I never said he wasn't clutch. He's obviously great, and he's obviously clutch. But he's not the best QB to ever play the game and it's crazy to me that people would push their loved ones into oncoming traffic for a chance to throw rose pedals at the guy's feet while he walked down the street. Belichick is the one who should be revered into another dimension. He and his defenses have made Brady far more what he is than Brady's own talent. And it doesn't hurt that the guy has been beyond lucky in many, many big moments in his career.

 

[ddann]

Look at it this way:

You are going to be the head coach of an NFL team. You can take any QB that has ever played in the NFL in his prime to be your QB.

Who are you taking?

(And you don't get to have Bill Belichick on your staff, BTW).

Come on, Tom Terrific fanboys. What's taking so long?

 

[YLCANE]

Saints had the 14th ranked defense. Rams the 20th this season. Try harder, pumpkin.

2018 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2018 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

Boy your not smart
Season long stats don’t mean chit
Rams cruised on D
They were disinterested and missed Talib most of year dumb****
Meanwhile saints lost their run stuffer DT in divisional game this their run d was vulnerable moreso than reg season
Get your **** together

Again rams just shut that NO O DOWN IN NO
You are shaqtin a fool right now

I’m not going to sit here and make you look worse I will go back to watching the whales cruise the Sea of Cortez

Enjoy your day bro

 

[orange&green84]

Like I said he was not part of a NE super bowl win. Facts are getting in the way for you. Hard to argue against all your nonsense. He's got them to 9 super bowls in 18 years. That' half of all super bowls in 18 years nobody even close to that.

And has had Belichick who's probably the best HC of all-time in the NFL.

 

[orange&green84]

Boy your not smart
Season long stats don’t mean chit
Rams cruised on D
They were disinterested and missed Talib most of year dumb****
Meanwhile saints lost their run stuffer DT in divisional game this their run d was vulnerable moreso than reg season
Get your **** together

Again rams just shut that NO O DOWN IN NO
You are shaqtin a fool right now

I’m not going to sit here and make you look worse I will go back to watching the whales cruise the Sea of Cortez

Enjoy your day bro

*You're

You're coming off as a bigger fool with your useless rhetoric.

 

[orange&green84]

I agree with what you're saying but who cares what happened prior to that game? In that game, their offense was awful, and it was dominated by Belichick's scheme (Sean McVay has said 50 times since how badly he was outcoached). But in the biggest game of the year, Brady and the Pats were almost as bad. And how would the whole gameplan change? The Patriots were in a 1 score game for the first 59 minutes of the football game, and they threw the ball 35 times. Does that seem conservative to you? You're really going to sit here and say that Brady's average at best performance was because the Rams weren't scoring? The GOAT...the best QB to ever play the position in the history of the sport, playing what you just called the wizz-kid coach of the 2nd highest scoring offense in football, in a year when more points were scored than any other EVER...your argument is the Pats played conservative in a 3 point game in the Super Bowl? That might be my favorite one so far.

And of course, for the 700th time, I never said Brady wasn't great. I never said he wasn't clutch. He's obviously great, and he's obviously clutch. But he's not the best QB to ever play the game and it's crazy to me that people would push their loved ones into oncoming traffic for a chance to throw rose pedals at the guy's feet while he walked down the street. Belichick is the one who should be revered into another dimension. He and his defenses have made Brady far more what he is than Brady's own talent. And it doesn't hurt that the guy has been beyond lucky in many, many big moments in his career.

Basically this. This thread is proving who would let Brady come and pound their wife/girlfriend. @YLCANE seems he'd be the first to volunteer his significant other up, then proceed to name the kid that is conceived after Brady.

 

[Cookie917]

I agree with what you're saying but who cares what happened prior to that game? In that game, their offense was awful, and it was dominated by Belichick's scheme (Sean McVay has said 50 times since how badly he was outcoached). But in the biggest game of the year, Brady and the Pats were almost as bad. And how would the whole gameplan change? The Patriots were in a 1 score game for the first 59 minutes of the football game, and they threw the ball 35 times. Does that seem conservative to you? You're really going to sit here and say that Brady's average at best performance was because the Rams weren't scoring? The GOAT...the best QB to ever play the position in the history of the sport, playing what you just called the wizz-kid coach of the 2nd highes scoring offense in football, in a year when more points were scored than any other EVER...your argument is the Pats played conservative in a 3 point game in the Super Bowl? That might be my favorite one so far.

And of course, for the 700th time, I never said Brady wasn't great. I never said he wasn't clutch. He's obviously great, and he's obviously clutch. But he's not the best QB to ever play the game and it's crazy to me that people would push their loved ones into oncoming traffic for a chance to throw rose pedals at the guy's feet while he walked down the street. Belichick is the one who should be revered into another dimension. He and his defenses have made Brady far more what he is than Brady's own talent. And it doesn't hurt that the guy has been beyond lucky in many, many big moments in his career.

I never said that you said he wasn't great, I said your statement of "its not close" was over the top. Just like now you are digging yourself a deeper hole.... lets see:
(McVay said he was outcoached) what do you expect McVay to say? blame his players? his scheme? no you give credit to a HC that has been in the SB in excess of 9 times.

(who cares what happened prior to the game) I mean if you do not want to consider a seasons worth of stats and instead only focus on one game then yes I guess you win, Brady is a pedestrian QB and the Rams offense blows....

(how would the gameplan change?....) If you do not think the rams coming out scoring points would cause the Pats to change their gameplan IDK what to tell you...You admit Belichick is the GOAT but do not think he would adjust if the rams came out and scored two quick TDS?

(sarcasm for conservative play calling and 35 passes) they played conservative they definitely did.... they did the same thing to the chiefs until the chiefs started scoring, they also ran the ball 32 times so **** near a 50/50 split in play calling, and how many of those passes were under 5 yards? Look at the drive chart even... First drive, interception on a tipped ball that if incomplete leads to a FG try or more, second drive missed FG, next drive punt from Rams 40, next drive FG....

(luck) really? this is how you end your argument? sure he has had lucky moments, at what point does it stop being "luck" though? He also has had "unlucky moments" as well.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I never said that you said he wasn't great, I said your statement of "its not close" was over the top. Just like now you are digging yourself a deeper hole.... lets see:
(McVay said he was outcoached) what do you expect McVay to say? blame his players? his scheme? no you give credit to a HC that has been in the SB in excess of 9 times.

(who cares what happened prior to the game) I mean if you do not want to consider a seasons worth of stats and instead only focus on one game then yes I guess you win, Brady is a pedestrian QB and the Rams offense blows....

(how would the gameplan change?....) If you do not think the rams coming out scoring points would cause the Pats to change their gameplan IDK what to tell you...You admit Belichick is the GOAT but do not think he would adjust if the rams came out and scored two quick TDS?

(sarcasm for conservative play calling and 35 passes) they played conservative they definitely did.... they did the same thing to the chiefs until the chiefs started scoring, they also ran the ball 32 times so **** near a 50/50 split in play calling, and how many of those passes were under 5 yards? Look at the drive chart even... First drive, interception on a tipped ball that if incomplete leads to a FG try or more, second drive missed FG, next drive punt from Rams 40, next drive FG....

(luck) really? this is how you end your argument? sure he has had lucky moments, at what point does it stop being "luck" though? He also has had "unlucky moments" as well.

How many passes were under 5 yards? **** near all of em. That's all the pats do. He threw 1 gorgeous ball to Gronk. Other than that, he did absolutely nothing any of the top 15 QBs in the league couldn't do in that same system.

But again, you're not getting my point. We're talking about THIS GAME. I don't care if the Rams averaged 300 points a game coming in. This is not on aggregate. Those points don't roll over. The game started 0-0. So why do I care how good the Rams were coming in? They did absolutely nothing on offense for this entire game....aka Brady won another game where he was average at best because his all-time GOAT coach shut down the opposing team.

And it stops being luck when he throws a game sealing INT in the AFCCG and the backside DE actually lines up onsides, like he did on EVERY single snap other than the one Brady threw a pick to make him the reason they lost.

 

[Cookie917]

How many passes were under 5 yards? **** near all of em. That's all the pats do. He threw 1 gorgeous ball to Gronk. Other than that, he did absolutely nothing any of the top 15 QBs in the league couldn't do in that same system.

But again, you're not getting my point. We're talking about THIS GAME. I don't care if the Rams averaged 300 points a game coming in. This is not on aggregate. Those points don't roll over. The game started 0-0. So why do I care how good the Rams were coming in? They did absolutely nothing on offense for this entire game....aka Brady won another game where he was average at best because his all-time GOAT coach shut down the opposing team.

And it stops being luck when he throws a game sealing INT in the AFCCG and the backside DE actually lines up onsides, like he did on EVERY single snap other than the one Brady threw a pick to make him the reason they lost.

I agree some of the superbowls he won because of good to great defenses and scheme where he did not need to be all world but....

XXXVIII: Patriots 32, Panthers 29

• Brady went 32–for–48 with 354 yards, three touchdowns and one interception

XLIX: Patriots 28, Seahawks 24

Brady went 37–for–50 with 328 yards, four touchdowns and two interceptions

LI: Patriots 34, Falcons 28 (OT)

• Brady went 43–for–62 with 466 yards, two touchdowns and one interception

I mean those are some pretty gaudy numbers and I would say above average in 3 of his 6 superbowl wins....

and stop with the luck argument... as I mentioned you have certain points that take away from a valid argument, citing luck is a big one and further saying it is luck that a DE lined up offsides is ridiculous....

 

[ddann]

and stop with the luck argument... as I mentioned you have certain points that take away from a valid argument, citing luck is a big one and further saying it is luck that a DE lined up offsides is ridiculous....

Ok, well, what do you want to call it? Good fortune? Serendipity?

What is it when you make a game-sealing mistake and get bailed out by something that had zero impact on the play?

Sort of reminds me of that time the same dude fumbled away a chance to go to the Super Bowl...and had it overturned on a ridiculous "tuck rule" call.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I agree some of the superbowls he won because of good to great defenses and scheme where he did not need to be all world but....

XXXVIII: Patriots 32, Panthers 29

• Brady went 32–for–48 with 354 yards, three touchdowns and one interception

XLIX: Patriots 28, Seahawks 24

Brady went 37–for–50 with 328 yards, four touchdowns and two interceptions

LI: Patriots 34, Falcons 28 (OT)

• Brady went 43–for–62 with 466 yards, two touchdowns and one interception

I mean those are some pretty gaudy numbers and I would say above average in 3 of his 6 superbowl wins....

and stop with the luck argument... as I mentioned you have certain points that take away from a valid argument, citing luck is a big one and further saying it is luck that a DE lined up offsides is ridiculous....

John Kasay kicks the ball out of bounds with a minute left in a tie game to give Brady the ball on the 40 yard line, and Vinatieri kicks a game winning FG.

Russell Wilson throws an INT from the 1 yard line instead of handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch, it's intercepted by Malcolm Butler, and the game is saved

Atlanta is up 28-3, and inexplicably abandons the run game, allowing the Pats to come back. Also, Brady hits Robert Alford right in the chest with a ball that would've been a game sealing INT, and it's dropped.

See? Does Brady deserve credit for those performances? Of course. He played exceptionally well for LONG stretches of those games. But it's not like he went out and dominated those games.

As a matter of fact, I'd argue his best performance was one of the 3 losses, in the game vs Philly. He was incredible in that game. But you can see he's literally 1-2 plays away from losing 5 or 6 super bowls. You can't play the what-if game....they won, he won, and that's history. But he's not the best QB to ever play. Add in the tuck rule, Dee Ford, Vinatieri hitting TWO kicks in a driving snow storm, Belichick's defensive mastery....Belichick is the engine behind that dynasty. Not Brady. Replace Brady with an above average QB and IMO you have similar results. Maybe not 6 rings, but the team would be a dynasty. Replace Belichick with an above average QB and there's no chance in the world New England has the success they've had the past 15 years.

 

[Cookie917]

John Kasay kicks the ball out of bounds with a minute left in a tie game to give Brady the ball on the 40 yard line, and Vinatieri kicks a game winning FG.

Russell Wilson throws an INT from the 1 yard line instead of handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch, it's intercepted by Malcolm Butler, and the game is saved

Atlanta is up 28-3, and inexplicably abandons the run game, allowing the Pats to come back. Also, Brady hits Robert Alford right in the chest with a ball that would've been a game sealing INT, and it's dropped.

See? Does Brady deserve credit for those performances? Of course. He played exceptionally well for LONG stretches of those games. But it's not like he went out and dominated those games.

As a matter of fact, I'd argue his best performance was one of the 3 losses, in the game vs Philly. He was incredible in that game. But you can see he's literally 1-2 plays away from losing 5 or 6 super bowls. You can't play the what-if game....they won, he won, and that's history. But he's not the best QB to ever play. Add in the tuck rule, Dee Ford, Vinatieri hitting TWO kicks in a driving snow storm, Belichick's defensive mastery....Belichick is the engine behind that dynasty. Not Brady. Replace Brady with an above average QB and IMO you have similar results. Maybe not 6 rings, but the team would be a dynasty. Replace Belichick with an above average QB and there's no chance in the world New England has the success they've had the past 15 years.

Who is the best QB to ever play then?

Ok, well, what do you want to call it? Good fortune? Serendipity?

What is it when you make a game-sealing mistake and get bailed out by something that had zero impact on the play?

Sort of reminds me of that time the same dude fumbled away a chance to go to the Super Bowl...and had it overturned on a ridiculous "tuck rule" call.

I guess our definitions of "luck" differ, luck to me is the helmet catch, or the edleman bobbling catch that bounced off a guys leg in Atlanta, those were just lucky, a guy lining up offsides then having to ask his coach "was i?" after the play is not luck... thats stupidity.

 

[gruntking]

Like I said he was not part of a NE super bowl win. Facts are getting in the way for you. Hard to argue against all your nonsense. He's got them to 9 super bowls in 18 years. That' half of all super bowls in 18 years nobody even close to that.

Don't waste keystrokes regarding who is goat... football talk is not a science and most of the time it's very subjective and slanted.
The wife and I drove up to Georgia to stay with her son/grandkids for a few days and we watched the SB there. My stepson and my wife are "Dolfans".
My wife doesn't talk Fins garbage because she knows better. But her son was like "I hate Brady", "The Pats suck", "Belichick's an *******", "The Pats are just lucky" and on and on. My friend, I will not engage these people with football banter because it's futile, just like political debate. They start getting obnoxious and next thing things get heated and insults fly... just like politics.
Oh no not me.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Why is Tom Brady the GOAT?

Reason #27493