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Give JW his INT

Number1CanesFan

Number1CanesFan

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I just wanted to chime in on something that is incorrect in the official stats from the Boston College game.

The James Williams interception just before halftime was bizarre.

First of all, if JW stays on the sideline where he has blockers, he likely scores and there's no blocking penalty. Because of the angles, the block wouldn't have been attempted.

The rulling by referee was bizarre. The ref ruled the offsetting penalties as declined. The BC coach looked absolutely surprised. I don't see how that was even possible unless both coaches actually declined the penalty. It appeared as though the referee s made an independent decision.

Because they ruled the penalties as declined, the play should have stood and JW credited with an INT. The official stats show BC with 2 INTs not 3. The BC QB had 3 interceptions in the game.

1. The tip ball Moten INT.
2. The James Williams Hail Mary endzone INT.
3. The Marcellius Pulliam game ending INT.

Mario, at his post-game presser, said they had 2 interceptions. Someone should contact the staff and have the ACC correct the official stat line.

In any declined penalty, the play counts. Give JW his INT. He deserves it.

EDIT: I just reviewed NCAA rule 10-1-4. The interpretation version in the link below explains our scenario quite clearly.

Our scenario is Team A (BC) commits a penalty during a play in which they turn the ball over to team B (UM) who commits a penalty after the change of possession during the play.

One option is both teams accept the penalties and the down is replayed. Another option which I think Mario employed is that Team B (UM) declines the penalty against Team A (BC), but retains possession of the football with the penalty yardage enforced against them.

Because the the half ended, no offensive play occurred. However, the turnover play counts and James Williams should have been credited with his INT.

I think the ACC messed this up in the referee explanation and a failure to record the correct statistic.

Take a look for yourself. I think you'll agree.

RULE 10 - Penalty Enforcement :: NCAA Football Rules Online

rulebook.github.io rulebook.github.io
 
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The BC coach may have looked surprised because he may have thought he had one more untimed down due to the offsetting penalties and one more play with one second left in the half. One more chance at another Hail Mary.

He didn’t.

Mario declined the holding penalty on BC which meant BC had to decline the block in the back on the interception. Otherwise Miami would have retained possession. We all know Mario would’ve taken a knee and go into the locker room with a 28-7 lead, but Hafley wasn’t going to take a chance.

I think the play is nullified but no time is put on the clock and the half ends because there is insufficient time to run a play.
 
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TemplarCane said:
The BC coach may have looked surprised because he may have thought he had one more untimed down due to the offsetting penalties and one more play with one second left in the half. One more chance at another Hail Mary.

He didn’t.

Mario declined the holding penalty on BC which meant BC had to decline the block in the back on the interception. Otherwise Miami would have retained possession. We all know Mario would’ve taken a knee and go into the locker room with a 28-7 lead, but Hafley wasn’t going to take a chance.

I think the play is nullified but no time is put on the clock and the half ends because there is insufficient time to run a play.
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Perhaps the ref said the wrong thing in "the penalties are declined." Any play stands in any declined situation. They go to halftime, but JW gets his pick.

I found the whole thing bizzare and poorly explained by the referee.
 
Once there is a change of possession there is no such thing as offsetting penalties if each penalty happened before and after the turnover. Once again this was botched by the refs. This kind of thing happens all the time with a interception. Never have I seen a scenario the offense retain possession.
 
edge said:
Once there is a change of possession there is no such thing as offsetting penalties if each penalty happened before and after the turnover. Once again this was botched by the refs. This kind of thing happens all the time with a interception. Never have I seen a scenario the offense retain possession.
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Bingo! Just look at the play objectively without halftime to cloud the issue. Castellanos goes back to pass, a ref throws a flag on BC for holding Castellanos heaves a Hail Mary and it's picked off by JW. Once JW makes the pick, possession changes since Miami did not commit a penalty prior to the interception as the only flag thrown at this point was on BC for Holding. JW makes the interception and is attempting to run it back for a score. During his runback Miami is flagged for illegal block in the back. At this point(forget halftime) it is Miami ball at the spot where JW was tackled but there was a block in the back during the return so the ball comes back 10 yards.

Now let's clear up the penalties and what happens when we decline the BC penalty etc ....

Again, once JW intercepted the ball, Miami gained possession and that doesn't change by virtue of BC's penalty since Mario will decline it. With the BC penalty declined, there is the block in the back against Miami during the return. Since the penalty occured after the James Williams interception, Miami retains possession but is penalized 10 yards from where JW was tackled. Hafley can decline this penalty but that does nothing but wipe out the penalty yardage. The ball would still be Miami's at the spot where JW was tackled. Since the play ended the half there is no more play but the interception still stands.

The only exception is when both teams commit a penalty where there is no change of possession. When this occurs, the penalties are offset and the down is replayed. At the end of a half the play would be wiped out and play ended. However this is not what occured during our game. There was a change of possession and since the penalty on Miami occured post possession change, the play stands and the interception stands. Hafley can decline the penalty but that does not wipe out the interception. Either way the interception stands. This was a terrible job by the ref as it needlessly took away an interception from James Williams that he had earned. Mario needs to get that interception credited to James Williams. It's the little things like that that serve to build loyalty and trust and in this case deepen it. In any case the refs screwed one of our players again. To date they have called a phantom fumble and failed to overturn even with clear video evidence. They took a clear Safety away from Kiko Mauigoa vs Clemson. They took a clear Safety away from Wes Bissainthe vs FSU and finally an interception from James Williams vs Boston College. This is now serial rape because these refs keep phukking us!
 
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TemplarCane said:
The BC coach may have looked surprised because he may have thought he had one more untimed down due to the offsetting penalties and one more play with one second left in the half. One more chance at another Hail Mary.

He didn’t.

Mario declined the holding penalty on BC which meant BC had to decline the block in the back on the interception. Otherwise Miami would have retained possession. We all know Mario would’ve taken a knee and go into the locker room with a 28-7 lead, but Hafley wasn’t going to take a chance.

I think the play is nullified but no time is put on the clock and the half ends because there is insufficient time to run a play.
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Mario WOULD NOT have taken a knee.

Take that estrogen cream menopause dryness management talk back to the tea room where it belongs.
 
Seems we have a weekly miss with these ACC crews… this somehow beats all the non safety calls and handful of holding on our Dline actually called.
 
Those refs are brain dead. Miami obviously gets to decline the penalty. The other was after a change of possession so they weren't offsetting penalties. It should have been a just a 15 yard penalty from the spot of 51's block.

Also if they said both penalties were declined how did the play not count? Lol even if they accepted the penalty, the pick still stands. After the pick, it's essentially a punt return and should have been treated as such.
 
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edge said:
Once there is a change of possession there is no such thing as offsetting penalties if each penalty happened before and after the turnover. Once again this was botched by the refs. This kind of thing happens all the time with a interception. Never have I seen a scenario the offense retain possession.
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This is exactly what I thought, then they just said eff it go to halftime lmao
 
TemplarCane said:
The BC coach may have looked surprised because he may have thought he had one more untimed down due to the offsetting penalties and one more play with one second left in the half. One more chance at another Hail Mary.

He didn’t.

Mario declined the holding penalty on BC which meant BC had to decline the block in the back on the interception. Otherwise Miami would have retained possession. We all know Mario would’ve taken a knee and go into the locker room with a 28-7 lead, but Hafley wasn’t going to take a chance.

I think the play is nullified but no time is put on the clock and the half ends because there is insufficient time to run a play.
Click to expand...
The play is not nullified if there is a change of possession and the flag on the intercepting team is thrown post interception(possession change). Hafley had no say in the matter that would deprive Miami of possession had there still been time on the clock(I didn't see the end of the half sequence.) James Williams's interception stands and should not have been nullified by the referee. It was incompetence by that officiating crew pure and simple.

On a sidenote, the officiating this year has been absolutely abysmal! I've never seen so many egregious errors, so much rank incompetence and gross negligence by the ACC referees. It's to the point where there needs to be an investigation by a neutral third party because this just cannot go on.
 
You are correct. James Williams should be credited with the interception. As others have said, penalties do NOT offset when one happens before a turnover and the other happens after the turnover. BC had to decline the blocking penalty to prevent UM from being allowed to run a play.
Any box score that does not credit JW with the pick is wrong. Give the young man his flowers.
 
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edge said:
Once there is a change of possession there is no such thing as offsetting penalties if each penalty happened before and after the turnover. Once again this was botched by the refs. This kind of thing happens all the time with an interception. Never have I seen a scenario the offense retain possession.
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Ironically. Not sure if the rules are different between mass high school football, d1, and NFL but the exact situation played out at the high school thanksgiving day game and they made the same exact call and replayed the down. Infuriating
 
BostonCanes47 said:
Ironically. Not sure if the rules are different between mass high school football, d1, and NFL but the exact situation played out at the high school thanksgiving day game and they made the same exact call and replayed the down. Infuriating
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Think about that logically. The offense commits a holding penalty and throws a pick. That all gets negated because of a block in the back after the pick. Simply bizarre and incorrect logic.
 
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