FSU/Louisville similarities

[JHallCanes]

This isn’t rocket science or anything new just an observation and maybe me trying to talk myself back off the ledge a bit (I’m not on the ledge but you get me)

Forced myself to rewatch the Louisville abomination but it stood out to me how razor thin the difference was with these two games at the beginning

FSU empties the clip on their opening drive. Norvell (Gus) isn’t Brohm but he’s a solid play caller that does well on scripted drives

They march on us but the defense holds and forces 3. A huge win honestly.

We turn around and do nothing on offense but get a decent punt to put FSU at their own 20. We know the rest


Louisville empties the clip on their first drive. Again Miami bends but doesn’t break and forces 3.

I think we were ready for the fake it just looked like we played it poorly. **** if we attack the holder who knows what happens when a holder tries to pitch it to a kicker with pressure on him? Scoop and score is on the table even

Ultimately we give up the TD

Offense does worse than nothing as CiCi makes a very uncharacteristic penalty and almost feels like .5 turnover

We punt and Louisville starts with the ball in our territory

It’s 14-0 instead of 3-0 and 14-7 instead of 7-3 us when we make our first clean drive

From there the defense absolutely shuts the door in both games for an extended period of time while the offense flips the script on FSU but can’t do the same to Louisville

Moral of the story?

I dunno. I know people were ****ed at the defense. It was rusty and you could say flat, but also Brohm threw the house

We were pretty close to weathering that storm as well but 4.5 turnovers is tough to overcome

Unlike last season I expect the defense to keep us in it while the offense figures it out

 

[Yoyo423]

I thought many of the same things.

The only difference is your last line right there. Mario knows our defense can keep us in the game so he'll hold onto his conservative offense as long as possible. He doesn't have great feel on gameday so I often think he'll hold onto it for too long.

Last year it felt like he finally accepted our defense wasn't going to win any games and our offense could so he got out of that shell quickly but this year he's not feeling like playing out of comfort zone all game like he did last year.

 

[Soidonthaveaname]

Defense only giving up 24 points should be plenty for a W

 

[rascon]

I’m kinda thinking teams are going to keep doing what Louisville did which is load up on those A gap runs and play zone on the back end with spy on Toney. If we commit to variety on offense for a couple weeks, we can right the ship and get teams to play us straight up.

But history says we don’t really make those kinds of changes. I do see Beck getting smarter and hitting the flats more, but without changes to the run game, we could be behind the sticks alot more in the future.

 

[Yoyo423]

Defense only giving up 24 points should be plenty for a W

And that's WITH the offense giving them an extra 4 possessions. I know they didn't score on any of them but 4 extra possessions wears down the D. In addition to the D basically getting a TD with the forced fumble at the very end that lead to the TD in the very next play.

Defense definitely did their job in my opinion.

 

[JHallCanes]

I thought many of the same things.

The only difference is your last line right there. Mario knows our defense can keep us in the game so he'll hold onto his conservative offense as long as possible. He doesn't have great feel on gameday so I often think he'll hold onto it for too long.

Last year it felt like he finally accepted our defense wasn't going to win any games and our offense could so he got out of that shell quickly but this year he's not feeling like playing out of comfort zone all game like he did last year.

Agreed and honestly on paper I don’t hate that philosophy at all

The tough part is watching an almost unwillingness to change within the game when it’s needed

I get a little tired of hearing how we “will fix it in practice” after games like this when you can quite literally just do something different during the game

 

[JHallCanes]

I’m kinda thinking teams are going to keep doing what Louisville did which is load up on those A gap runs and play zone on the back end with spy on Toney. If we commit to variety on offense for a couple weeks, we can right the ship and get teams to play us straight up.

But history says we don’t really make those kinds of changes. I do see Beck getting smarter and hitting the flats more, but without changes to the run game, we could be behind the sticks alot more in the future.

The rewatch is staggering how many plays were there in the passing game that we just flopped

I’m annoyed now even more because we should have been leading at the half and ultimately had likely a 7-10 point victory

 

[Yoyo423]

Agreed and honestly on paper I don’t hate that philosophy at all

The tough part is watching an almost unwillingness to change within the game when it’s needed

I get a little tired of hearing how we “will fix it in practice” after games like this when you can quite literally just do something different during the game

I don't mind it either. #3 and #4 are the guys we need most in the postseason and the longer we can shorten their games the more they'll have in the tank when the season ends.

But Mario needs to show some urgency/adaptability when his game plan gets punched in the mouth in the first 5 minutes.

Against FSU, it worked because the defense held.

Against LOU, that wasn't the case.

 

[rascon]

The rewatch is staggering how many plays were there in the passing game that we just flopped

I’m annoyed now even more because we should have been leading at the half and ultimately had likely a 7-10 point victory

Yep, and it could have been a blowout for us, because if we get up early at home, we would have run away from them.
It’s deflating to see Dawson out there calling runs when he can see how UL is stacking the box.

I’m thinking last year Cam would have audibled out of those into pass plays. I might be wrong, but I’m not seeing Beck hardly ever audibling.

 

[skyman]

Defense only giving up 24 points should be plenty for a W

Not the way we play offense, we have programmed our offense a certain way, when I was saying you need to be aggressive thru out, now any penalty, even 5 yards is a mountain to climb, our whole scheme is based on scared of negative play, tight splits, run up butt run game, shut everything down for entire 4th qtr, it has permeated to a false start and we just throw our hands up, its over..

 

[flips]

Felt similarly rewatching it.

On the fake FG, pretty sure Damari was supposed to force the pitch, but they still had one more guy on that side then we did. Perhaps on special teams you figure someone should be able to catch the freaking kicker on an option pitch to the pylon and it doesn't really matter?

I think the loss was 99.9% because of how Beck played. We averaged 3 pts/drive on drives that he didn't turn it over. We should have had 4 more points on the 2nd Q field goal drive, cause Beck missed guys back to back for easy TDs. He doesn't turn it over/plays like an average QB we win the game, and instead of nuclear fallout here we are arguing about when our issues in the run game will cost us. I still can't get over how he played when we got the ball to start the second half (pretty freaking important drive, and you just had 20 min to get your mind right after throwing 2 first half picks). Yips-a-lot much?

I don't mean to minimize the issues we are having running the ball, merely contextualize them. We could have easily won the game without running any better than we did, if our QB didn't play like a numbnuts.

 

[JHallCanes]

Felt similarly rewatching it.

On the fake FG, pretty sure Damari was supposed to force the pitch, but they still had one more guy on that side then we did. Perhaps on special teams you figure someone should be able to catch the freaking kicker on an option pitch to the pylon and it doesn't really matter?

I think the loss was 99.9% because of how Beck played. We averaged 3 pts/drive on drives that he didn't turn it over. We should have had 4 more points on the 2nd Q field goal drive, cause Beck missed guys back to back for easy TDs. He doesn't turn it over/plays like an average QB we win the game, and instead of nuclear fallout here we are arguing about when our issues in the run game will cost us. I still can't get over how he played when we got the ball to start the second half (pretty freaking important drive, and you just had 20 min to get your mind right after throwing 2 first half picks). Yips-a-lot much?

I don't mean to minimize the issues we are having running the ball, merely contextualize them. We could have easily won the game without running any better than we did, if our QB didn't play like a numbnuts.

Couldn’t agree more

Against FSU Beck threw 4 TDs and was an absolute assassin

The same plays were there against Louisville just something broke in his brain

We didn’t run the ball well against FSU either

 

[hoops156]

This isn’t rocket science or anything new just an observation and maybe me trying to talk myself back off the ledge a bit (I’m not on the ledge but you get me)

Forced myself to rewatch the Louisville abomination but it stood out to me how razor thin the difference was with these two games at the beginning

FSU empties the clip on their opening drive. Norvell isn’t Brohm but he’s a solid play caller that does well on scripted drives

They march on us but the defense holds and forces 3. A huge win honestly.

We turn around and do nothing on offense but get a decent punt to put FSU at their own 20. We know the rest


Louisville empties the clip on their first drive. Again Miami bends but doesn’t break and forces 3.

I think we were ready for the fake it just looked like we played it poorly. **** if we attack the holder who knows what happens when a holder tries to pitch it to a kicker with pressure on him? Scoop and score is on the table even

Ultimately we give up the TD

Offense does worse than nothing as CiCi makes a very uncharacteristic penalty and almost feels like .5 turnover

We punt and Louisville starts with the ball in our territory

It’s 14-0 instead of 3-0 and 14-7 instead of 7-3 us when we make our first clean drive

From there the defense absolutely shuts the door in both games for an extended period of time while the offense flips the script on FSU but can’t do the same to Louisville

Moral of the story?

I dunno. I know people were ****ed at the defense. It was rusty and you could say flat, but also Brohm threw the house

We were pretty close to weathering that storm as well but 4.5 turnovers is tough to overcome

Unlike last season I expect the defense to keep us in it while the offense figures it out

i think we didnt know the situation. the defense thought it was 4 and goal and not 4 and 2. you can tell by the way they were celebrating. thats on coaching

 

[JHallCanes]

i think we didnt know the situation. the defense thought it was 4 and goal and not 4 and 2. you can tell by the way they were celebrating. thats on coaching

Yeah we didn’t know the first down which is…wow…concerning

But I personally don’t think we were fooled by the fake necessarily either. It was just like we had never seen a speed option before

And “speed” is being generous

Could be wrong though

 

[hoops156]

Yeah we didn’t know the first down which is…wow…concerning

But I personally don’t think we were fooled by the fake necessarily either. It was just like we had never seen a speed option before

And “speed” is being generous

Could be wrong though

we were so unprepared on every aspect that game.

defense eventually adjusted and kept us in it.

offense had no counters at all and still seems stubborn in continuing the run scheme every week. were an easy team to prep for because we dont change much

 

[JHallCanes]

we were so unprepared on every aspect that game.

defense eventually adjusted and kept us in it.

offense had no counters at all and still seems stubborn in continuing the run scheme every week. were an easy team to prep for because we dont change much

To be fair the defense adjusted pretty quickly. Was just a shame that we blinked and were down 14

I get the offense criticisms but honestly man on the rewatch it’s QB1. Louisville did what FSU tried to do. And a lot of teams try to take our run game away so Dawson just did what he did against FSU

there were a ton of chances for Beck he just played one of the worst games I’ve ever seen a QB play here. It was Kirnobyl level

 

[hoops156]

To be fair the defense adjusted pretty quickly. Was just a shame that we blinked and were down 14

I get the offense criticisms but honestly man on the rewatch it’s QB1. Louisville did what FSU tried to do. And a lot of teams try to take our run game away so Dawson just did what he did against FSU

there were a ton of chances for Beck he just played one of the worst games I’ve ever seen a QB play here. It was Kirnobyl level

thats who beck is at the end of the day. hes more of what we saw last year than 2023 when he had Bowers and Lad snagging balls. he cant handle any sort of pressure and tbh he had a mostly clean pocket in pass pro against lville.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Man you are one masochistic MFer to rewatch that game. I ran out of puke watching it in real time, so I don't have the huevos to watch it again.

Here's a thought - the defense didn't tighten up so much as Louisville started regressing back to their norm. More specifically, Miller Moss started acting like Miller Moss again by missing guys that were open. Some of that is due to our pressure; some is due to Miller Moss stinking. Either way, Louisville slowed way down after those first two drives.

Your point about "unwillingness to change within the game when it’s needed" is sooooo true. I'm ok with pounding it up the gut, but good lord, an occasional pitch/sweep or just an old fashioned trap play sure would help to keep the defense honest. Defenses are literally overloading the A and B gaps and shutting down our run game because you can't block 11 with 5 (<-- that's hyperbole for those who don't know). God forbid we run a screen to a non-WR. And the mid-range passing game....doesn't exist, despite the numerous times dudes were open between 6 and 20 yards downfield. I hate seeing Caveman Mario and Wario Warriors (that one really dumb), but man I get why some guys feel that way. 3 yards and a cloud dust CAN work, but 1.6 and a cloud of dust means you're in 3rd and long a lot. It's 2025, not 1975. A little ingenuity and in game tweaks would go a long way.

 

[JHallCanes]

Man you are one masochistic MFer to rewatch that game. I ran out of puke watching it in real time, so I don't have the huevos to watch it again.

Here's a thought - the defense didn't tighten up so much as Louisville started regressing back to their norm. More specifically, Miller Moss started acting like Miller Moss again by missing guys that were open. Some of that is due to our pressure; some is due to Miller Moss stinking. Either way, Louisville slowed way down after those first two drives.

Your point about "unwillingness to change within the game when it’s needed" is sooooo true. I'm ok with pounding it up the gut, but good lord, an occasional pitch/sweep or just an old fashioned trap play sure would help to keep the defense honest. Defenses are literally overloading the A and B gaps and shutting down our run game because you can't block 11 with 5 (<-- that's hyperbole for those who don't know). God forbid we run a screen to a non-WR. And the mid-range passing game....doesn't exist, despite the numerous times dudes were open between 6 and 20 yards downfield. I hate seeing Caveman Mario and Wario Warriors (that one really dumb), but man I get why some guys feel that way. 3 yards and a cloud dust CAN work, but 1.6 and a cloud of dust means you're in 3rd and long a lot. It's 2025, not 1975. A little ingenuity and in game tweaks would go a long way.

I’m certainly not suggesting Shannon Dawson become Kyle Shanahan but SF runs their offense almost exclusively between the tackles as well. You can be super creative. Harbaugh likes to do this as well.

But one thing SF does for example is use the pitch play to keep defenses honest. Even if it doesn’t work it’s like throwing a bomb to keep the secondary honest. It might not work but it still has a purpose

I have a hard time grappling with the same OC calling a flea flicker to snatch momentum from FSU being the same one pounding the ball up the middle against Louisville (lot of pause in there)

 

[flips]

I’m certainly not suggesting Shannon Dawson become Kyle Shanahan but SF runs their offense almost exclusively between the tackles as well. You can be super creative. Harbaugh likes to do this as well.

But one thing SF does for example is use the pitch play to keep defenses honest. Even if it doesn’t work it’s like throwing a bomb to keep the secondary honest. It might not work but it still has a purpose

I have a hard time grappling with the same OC calling a flea flicker to snatch momentum from FSU being the same one pounding the ball up the middle against Louisville (lot of pause in there)

I think Dawson really believes that the WR screen game counts as outside runs. He's mentioned it many times in the pressers. We have been really good in the WR screen game this year. Even if you think this is fair, I don't think it's unreasonable to pitch the ball to a RB a few times each year. The world will continue to spin

Yeah, we went to the well a bit too much against UL like @DMoney mentioned - English 100% baited Dawson & Beck into that 3rd down screen to in the 3rd that failed showing max pressure and dropping two guys to the side the screen went to.