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Rickd said:
Seems like the "smoking gun" is the FACT that the media rights COMMITMENT by ESPN is currently only through 2027 and the ACC Conference obligated the member to sign a GOR commitment through 2036. Members believed ... until yesterday ... that ESPN also had a commitment through 2036. As it turns out the ACC conference UNILATERALLY decided to give ESPN an extension option ... to extend the media commitment 9 years from 2027 through 2036 and they have until February 2025 to exercise that option. The ACC conference DID THIS without member approval or member notification and it is an action that required 2/3 member approval. THEREFORE at the very least I would expect a court to find that the MUTUAL OBLIGATION expires in 2027. Therefore any program wanting to leave PRIOR to 2027 would pay the ACC exit fee and a per year penalty GOR buyback to ESPN for 2 years (if out in 2025).
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Yeah if the acc did that it would definitely give fsu a better chance than I initially thought. I want to say I find it hard to believe that the ACC brass would do something so dumb.... but it is that dumb.
 
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OrangeCane said:
Oh, 100%. Many of these schools and conferences have no vision for the future and no idea of what they're doing in the present. Just look at our football coaching hires over the last two decades. One of the major reasons that Maryland left the ACC a decade ago was because they had mismanaged themselves into so much debt that the promise of future Big Ten money was the only way for their athletic department to be solvent. They STILL aren't getting full shares from the conference in revenue (mostly because they had to borrow $120 million from the conference in order to make up for shortfalls, and now they have to gradually pay that back out of their conference revenue).

I have no idea what conversations have gone on behind the scenes, but FSU is the desperate one here, not the Big Ten or SEC. There's not a huge incentive for either conference to strike a deal with the Noles until they see the results of their attempts to get out of the ACC. Would the Big Ten or SEC think twice about immediately adding an FSU that owes $500 million in debt? Or would they rather wait 5-10 years and add them later on when the finances work better for everyone involved? I don't know the answer to that, but it wouldn't surprise me to see FSU taking a risk here -- with their recent actions and tons of whining, their admin strikes me as the "act first, figure things out later" type.
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Good stuff.
I find this whole fiasco fascinating, would be funny if it wasn’t so serious to Miami’s future.
 
OrangeCane said:
Oh, 100%. Many of these schools and conferences have no vision for the future and no idea of what they're doing in the present. Just look at our football coaching hires over the last two decades. One of the major reasons that Maryland left the ACC a decade ago was because they had mismanaged themselves into so much debt that the promise of future Big Ten money was the only way for their athletic department to be solvent. They STILL aren't getting full shares from the conference in revenue (mostly because they had to borrow $120 million from the conference in order to make up for shortfalls, and now they have to gradually pay that back out of their conference revenue).

I have no idea what conversations have gone on behind the scenes, but FSU is the desperate one here, not the Big Ten or SEC. There's not a huge incentive for either conference to strike a deal with the Noles until they see the results of their attempts to get out of the ACC. Would the Big Ten or SEC think twice about immediately adding an FSU that owes $500 million in debt? Or would they rather wait 5-10 years and add them later on when the finances work better for everyone involved? I don't know the answer to that, but it wouldn't surprise me to see FSU taking a risk here -- with their recent actions and tons of whining, their admin strikes me as the "act first, figure things out later" type.
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I’m quite certain fsu knows they have an unofficial official landing spot no matter how incompetent we might think they are on certain levels if they get out of this. I’d bet my house on it level certainty
 
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Unless there is some type of settlement, I can see the loser appealing the verdict. By the time it is finally decided, once and for all, how many years down the road will have passed?
 
Can someone explain to me how the damages of a half billion dollar is not an unreasonable form of liquidated damages? Regardless of arms length bargaining, a scale of exponentially increasing damages doesn't seem tied to actual damages. There's a classic liquidated damages case from 1L I can't remember. Obviously forum matters but assuming it gets to actual trial (doubtful) won't most judges just try to calculate actual damages and let each party decide what to do next. Also, assuming ACC has to find more schools to join and mitigate damages won't the breach of contract damage total decreases anyway? I don't know one way or another but would love to hear feedback on the above.
 
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imho there is going to be significant jockeying for other parties to intervene in the action because of this part of the declaratory judgment statute right here:


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Caneoverhere said:
I guess I'm just naive. Our top rival is fighting alone for what ultimately will save UM football. Rather be in it throwing punches too than some beta strategic ****.
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UM’s strategy has to be for the Long Term. We have to let FSU carry the ball here. Our focus has to be on building up our Program's brand name and financial attractiveness after 20 seasons of mismanagement and deliberate financial steerage of funds to UHealth. Now that the Hospital Administration gambit has turned into a cash cow for the University, there's no reason for the Hecht to drag the larger institution into extensive litigation with the Disney Corporation. All that is going to happen is a Settlement in which the aggrieved parties are going to have a Five Families meeting in which the Casinos in Havana are divvied up among the Caporegimes.

College Football is becoming a semi-pro business. NIL has only enhanced the possible revenue enhancements to these Universities, already facing the end of the Student Loan Gravy Train. Why should UM not allow their rival to act as a Legal Pathfinder for them to protect the good name of the University of Miami and carry the burden of litigation forward. UM's attorneys are only doing due diligence for their client in recommending that we stand aside and wait for either a lower court ruling, Congress to get involved (which I predict will happen at some point, unfortunately), or cooler heads to prevail at Disney/ESPN and the ACC and the Universities and a more generous financial settlement renegotiated with the Academic Institutions involved.
 
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RedSquare said:
I will say it again: UM, UNC, and Duke, organizations with much smarter and sophisticated people than FSU, had their lawyers in NY at 2 major firms (Latham, and Skadden), review the GOR and the ACC operating docs for several months. They concluded the deal was airtight and there was no way to break the contracts, and litigation would be a waste of time and money.

And we are now supposed to believe these clowns in Tallahassee have figured the whole thing out?

Right. And I believe Bella Hadid is showing up at my house on Christmas to give me a hummer.
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Excuse me, sir, but FSU's Attorneys are, how shall we say this, Top Men...
animal house dean GIF
 
TheOriginalCane said:
It's amazing that we have so many porsters come here to lecture us about what the court is going to do, when this lawsuit may never even see the inside of a courtroom.

Unlike these "board experts", I don't claim to know what a judge would do. But I evaluate the strength of the arguments being made. And there are some very solid arguments, which increase the likelihood of a settlement that will be favorable to the schools that choose to challenge the GOR.

Here is the reality. Almost every contract, on paper, looks innocent. Harmless. Blameless. Couldn't harm a fly.

And yet they are not magical documents that cannot be attacked. There are plenty of simple words that can have brutal impact. Some of those words seem, but mean something completely different when viewed in context.

Take the TERM of the GOR as a simple issue. We had ALREADY granted our rights to the ACC. Our rights had ALREADY been sold to ESPN through a certain date. Suddenly, because we are trying to create the ACC Network, ESPN demands, yes DEMANDS a GOR extension through 2036. WHY? They demanded an extension that was NINE YEARS longer than their obligation to pay us. When you look at it directly and with context, the language becomes outrageous.

So, yeah, dip****s on the board are going to spin some gossamer words about willing parties freely entering into an agreement, and how the rest of the world will respect that and refuse to find fault with such a contract.

Bull****.

Even if someone wants to accept the basic propriety of a GOR, that does not mean THE EXTENSION should be honored.

And just like that, you have powerful leverage and a devastating tool to pound on for a settlement negotiation.

And Miami should be a party to the lawsuit and a part of the negotiations.
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WORST CASE we should be bound by the GOR through 2027 ... period.
Number1CanesFan said:
I want to leave the ACC as bad as FSU does, but this desperation lawsuit by FSU creates a false hope.

The 8 ACC schools likely to leave the ACC should meet as a group with the the other 3 power conferences to plan an expansion of their conferences so that those 8 ACC schools could call a vote to disband the conference on a specific date.

If the ACC schools gave SMU, Cal, and Stanford full voting rights, then they have sealed their fate to the ACC because a majority vote to disband the ACC would be much more difficult to impossible.

The blame for the terrible tv contract the previous ACC commissioner put us in should lie on each ACC athletic director and school presidents. In their own stupidity, the ADs agreed to the contract. I believe the previous commissioner knew conference expansion was coming. Instead of looking out for each ACC school, he protected the ACC conference itself with a ridiculous 20 year contact. The athletic directors and school presidents deserve the lion's share of the blame for agreeing to the contract. They should have demanded a 5-8 year contact and fired the conference commissioner.

So, FSU and every other school has nobody to blame, but themselves. They do have an out by voting to disband the conference. They need the other 3 power conferences on board first with an agreement to take specific ACC schools when the disbandment takes place.

You can disagree, but I spit the truth. You just don't want to hear it.
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Another person posting a comment WITHOUT HAVING ACTUALLY READ THE COMPLAINTS!!! WTF??? A key issue of the complaints is pertaining to the FACT that the ACC Commissioner UNILATERALLY granted ESPN an OPTION TO EXTEND THE MEDIA RIGHTS from the current expiration date of 2027 for an additional 9 year period ... without advising the members that he was doing it and without obtaining the 2/3rds member approval. EVERYBODY BELIEVED THAT ESPN WAS BOUND FOR THE FULL LENGTH OF THE GOR COMMITMENT THAT THE SCHOOLS GAVE TO THE ACC.

Fact is the current ESPN commitment to PAY MEDIA RIGHTS is only through 2027 at the rate agreed to in 2012. AND they have the right ... if they so desire ... to extend that agreement through 2036 and they must decide by February 2025. WTF?? Two years from now they can decide if they want to keep ACC members tied to an agreement based on 2012 pricing?? NOT ONE ACC MEMBER was apprised of an OPTION being granted to ESPN. That is FRAUD and breech of fiduciary duty. WORST CASE the GOR should end in 2027 ... then it is back to open negotiations with ESPN OR OTHER MEDIA PARTNERS for the ACC ... and programs can leave with no penalty beyond the 2027 season, only paying the ACC exit fee.

We have people all over the place chastising ACC programs "you signed a contract you have to live up to the terms" .... THEY DID NOT SIGN ANY CONTRACT AT ANY TIME GRANTING ESPN AN OPTION TO DECIDE IN 2025 IF THEY WANT TO EXTEND THE MEDIA CONTRACT FOR 9 MORE YEARS AT 2021 PRICING. The ACC commissioner WAY OVERSTEPPED HIS AUTHORITY and violated the basic bylaws of the conference. The AGREEMENT should be nullified. Read the freaking filings before you comment. ****.
 
Rickd said:
WORST CASE we should be bound by the GOR through 2027 ... period.

Another person posting a comment WITHOUT HAVING ACTUALLY READ THE COMPLAINTS!!! WTF??? A key issue of the complaints is pertaining to the FACT that the ACC Commissioner UNILATERALLY granted ESPN an OPTION TO EXTEND THE MEDIA RIGHTS from the current expiration date of 2027 for an additional 9 year period ... without advising the members that he was doing it and without obtaining the 2/3rds member approval. EVERYBODY BELIEVED THAT ESPN WAS BOUND FOR THE FULL LENGTH OF THE GOR COMMITMENT THAT THE SCHOOLS GAVE TO THE ACC.

Fact is the current ESPN commitment to PAY MEDIA RIGHTS is only through 2027 at the rate agreed to in 2012. AND they have the right ... if they so desire ... to extend that agreement through 2036 and they must decide by February 2025. WTF?? Two years from now they can decide if they want to keep ACC members tied to an agreement based on 2012 pricing?? NOT ONE ACC MEMBER was apprised of an OPTION being granted to ESPN. That is FRAUD and breech of fiduciary duty. WORST CASE the GOR should end in 2027 ... then it is back to open negotiations with ESPN OR OTHER MEDIA PARTNERS for the ACC ... and programs can leave with no penalty beyond the 2027 season, only paying the ACC exit fee.

We have people all over the place chastising ACC programs "you signed a contract you have to live up to the terms" .... THEY DID NOT SIGN ANY CONTRACT AT ANY TIME GRANTING ESPN AN OPTION TO DECIDE IN 2025 IF THEY WANT TO EXTEND THE MEDIA CONTRACT FOR 9 MORE YEARS AT 2021 PRICING. The ACC commissioner WAY OVERSTEPPED HIS AUTHORITY and violated the basic bylaws of the conference. The AGREEMENT should be nullified. Read the freaking filings before you comment. ****.
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I hope you're right. We'll be a national contender in 2-3 years. The B1G will welcome Miami with open arms.

Miami was awarded AAU status along with ND in 2023. It's a huge deal. All B1G schools are AAU schools except Nebraska who was kicked out of the AAU a few years ago.

AAU schools are big in research. They share and collaborate in academic research. AAU schools bring in more money for research to the universities than all of college football and college basketball combined. It's a no-brainer that Miami will wind up in the B1G whenever they can get out of the ACC.
 
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Rickd said:
Seems like the "smoking gun" is the FACT that the media rights COMMITMENT by ESPN is currently only through 2027 and the ACC Conference obligated the member to sign a GOR commitment through 2036. Members believed ... until yesterday ... that ESPN also had a commitment through 2036. As it turns out the ACC conference UNILATERALLY decided to give ESPN an extension option ... to extend the media commitment 9 years from 2027 through 2036 and they have until February 2025 to exercise that option. The ACC conference DID THIS without member approval or member notification and it is an action that required 2/3 member approval. THEREFORE at the very least I would expect a court to find that the MUTUAL OBLIGATION expires in 2027. Therefore any program wanting to leave PRIOR to 2027 would pay the ACC exit fee and a per year penalty GOR buyback to ESPN for 2 years (if out in 2025).
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The math on that is
Exit Fee = 3xPayout = $130M
GOR = 2xPayout = $87M
Total = $217M.

But Like when Maryland left they paid 2/3rd. If that were the case here, it'd be $145M. Pretty reasonable. I think we should join this lawsuit if this is even remotely a possibility of getting out starting 2025 for $145M. I'd do that 100%. Worst case we're really in no worse spot. Best case we get out without paying anything. Sure it'll cost a few million in legal fees. It'll be worth it.
Also keep in Mind Texas and OU paid $100M to leave 1 year early from B12 to SEC.
 
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Peachycarnahan said:
imho there is going to be significant jockeying for other parties to intervene in the action because of this part of the declaratory judgment statute right here:


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This is the genius of the ACC filing - anyone who has an argument better lawyer up or shut up because if the ACC wins on this claim every member is subjugated to it. Pretty ballsy move on their part.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Whatever. If you think there will be an actual verdict here...

I can't. I've made it clear. This will be settled. There will BE NO legal precedent to follow.

We need to sue to negotiate. While I appreciate all the people trying NOT to spend UM's money, we actually need to pay the cost to be the boss.
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Assuming there is some credible legal claim to be made that permits a discretionary analysis by the court (which I agree with you seems to exist) FSU bringing this lawsuit in Tally is even stronger than UM bringing it in Miami. The legal version of home court is hometown.

And… I wholeheartedly agree… Very little chance this is litigated through the appellate process to create binding precedent that would help UM in a subsequent suit.
 
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Tinman64 said:
So if fsu and others find a way out of all this…what would be our best landing spot?
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Miami to the B1G. I'll keep saying on CIS. Miami and ND got AAU accreditation in 2023.

You can read up on it here:
en.wikipedia.org

Association of American Universities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Here's a YouTube podcast about Miami and ND getting AAU status fitting in with the B1G for football. It's a bit nerdy, but if you watch the first 30-40 minutes of it, you'll understand why there's no better fit for Miami or the B1G than the B1G.


AAU accreditation is huge for Miami. Every B1G school except Nebraska is AAU accredited. Nebraska was kicked out of the AAU in recent years. The AAU institutions do the lion's share of academic research. The amount of money they receive annually is more than college football and basketball combined.

If a judge determines the ACC GoR to end in 2027, the timing would be perfect as Miami will have established itself as a national football power once again.

There's no way Miami is going anywhere else except to the B1G.
 
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