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I'm not complaining at all but I don't trust FSU to do this competently solo and think they possibly could end up preventing group exit action if they fail. I think at least in the arena of public perception that FSU currently looks erratic and reactionary and butt-hurt while only concerned about crafting a path for a solo exit rather than seeking a legal ruling that would blow up the whole conference.

I absolutely wish them the best of luck if they somehow actually end up mortally wounding this godforsaken conference but I wish they had at least a couple other schools onboard now.
I agree 100% with how FSU is looking. All the other schools who have looked to move conferences have done so quietly, while FSU is out there complaining nonstop. In reading their complaints, they may have a reasonable case when it comes to the terms of the GOR and agreements with ESPN (none of us know, as we haven't actually read these), but other parts of their lawsuit (complaining about the additions of SMU, Cal, and Stanford... complaining about getting left out of the semifinals) come across as incredibly whiny and feels like they're throwing a temper tantrum.

This is precisely why I don't think we should join in unless other schools join in first. Let FSU shoulder the costs and be the laughingstock if they lose, and if they win, it'll make it easier for the other schools to leave if they choose. If FSU ends up with a solo exit that only benefits them, it's likely because they either have agreed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to leave, OR they win the case on merits that uniquely reflect them (i.e. getting left out of the playoff, being the ACC's most watched school, etc).
 
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They don’t look erratic in (checks notes) their home county and state where case is filed
I haven't kept up with this and just jumped in this thread so I'm sure this has been addressed/debated by the CIS Legal Dept. but what are the odds this is fully adjudicated there or there at all?
 
If I remember correctly, Maryland had to pay $31 million to the conference instead of $52 million. There was also no grant of rights in effect then, they had voted against the increase in exit fees (that had tripled them) and then had immediately agreed to join the Big 10, so this was a case solely about money. No one else has tried to leave the ACC, and no one in any conference has tried to exit a GOR situation early, so there is no precedent when it comes to that and no reason for any other schools to sue the ACC until now. Maryland definitely saved some money by suing the ACC, but I'm not sure if that's a reason to view them as precedent. (You are 100% right about some lawyers not being all that bright, but that also applies to FSU, in addition to the NCAA, conferences, and other universities.)

This case has some important differences:
FSU is still a member of the conference without a (known) agreement to join another conference. There is a GOR in effect that was willingly signed by all involved parties. The amount of money involved is staggering (we're talking 10x as much in just over a decade, which in itself is crazy... that shows how much the almighty dollar has impacted -- I'd say for the worse -- college football). And the ACC is fighting for the survival of the conference. The ACC knew it couldn't keep Maryland and easily replaced them with Louisville, which most of us would say has been a competitive upgrade. If FSU leaves, the ACC as we know it is over with, and many other schools get left behind with very little chance to play with the big boys of college football going forward; I don't think the ACC has much incentive to settle unless it looks like they will lose their case.

I can see this ending one of four ways:
1) FSU loses its case and has to return to a conference that it has alienated and stay here until it can afford to pay the penalties involved with leaving the conference.
2) FSU loses/is losing its case and wants to leave so much that it pays a ton of money (maybe not the full $500+ million, but a negotiated amount close to that) to go elsewhere immediately... I think this is counterproductive, as even with a full invite to the Big Ten or SEC, it would take them many years to make up for that money.
3) The ACC is worried that it will lose the case and settles with FSU for an amount that might be around 30-50% of the required exit fees -- still a lot of money, but an easier pill to swallow.
4) The ACC loses and FSU is free to leave because the GOR and/or draconian exit fees are unenforceable.

The only way I think we should join this lawsuit is if we are desperate to leave the ACC, are willing to pay a significant amount of money to leave (not the full $500+ million, but still a substantial amount), and we think scenario #3 is going to happen. Otherwise, sit back and let FSU either go down in flames in court, OR if FSU wins, then other schools would be free leave with minor penalties or to challenge the GOR/exit fees in court using the same arguments.


I know this is a long post, but a side note here. If scenario #4 happens and courts rule that the ACC's GOR/massive penalties are unenforceable, this could create a major change and new instability for college football, just as NIL has done. If a GOR /massive penalties are unenforceable, what's to stop schools from moving conferences routinely, chasing money and new media deals when they have a good team or a ton of eyeballs watching? Any conference stability that's left could completely go away and the college sports landscape could look radically different in 10 years (and probably not for the better). It all depends on the nuances of the case and its results, of course, but I could see something like that as a possibility.



Everything you say may be true. But #1 and #2 aren't happening.

This will settle out long before that. Even if the ACC thinks it has a "strong case", the adverse consequences of #3/#4 are SO bad that they can't **** around waiting on #1/#2.

The choice is between losing a finger, but surviving...and death.
 
Seems like the "smoking gun" is the FACT that the media rights COMMITMENT by ESPN is currently only through 2027 and the ACC Conference obligated the member to sign a GOR commitment through 2036. Members believed ... until yesterday ... that ESPN also had a commitment through 2036. As it turns out the ACC conference UNILATERALLY decided to give ESPN an extension option ... to extend the media commitment 9 years from 2027 through 2036 and they have until February 2025 to exercise that option. The ACC conference DID THIS without member approval or member notification and it is an action that required 2/3 member approval. THEREFORE at the very least I would expect a court to find that the MUTUAL OBLIGATION expires in 2027. Therefore any program wanting to leave PRIOR to 2027 would pay the ACC exit fee and a per year penalty GOR buyback to ESPN for 2 years (if out in 2025).
This seems like a plausible argument
 
Here are my (somewhat, not expert, but decent) law-educated takes on this.

1. As @TheOriginalCane already said, FSU has a landing spot if they leave the ACC. You´re a complete and utter braindead ****flap if you leave any situation in life without an exitplan. As my father would say "Secure yourself before you quit your job. Its much easier to get out of a ****** situation than it is to enter a good one, so be prepared". And they have, which is not surprising to me. As much as we can **** on FSU, if you go by purely based TV numbers, they are the hottest shot in the ACC.

2. The reason why other programs have not followed suit is, as @TheOriginalCane has also alluded to, that they do not have such exit plan in hand. There is an old GOR document available on the internet, even with an analysis from a Harvard Law student and how GORs can be taken apart in a legal battle. It was pathetic. I was stunned that a bunch of universities with billions of dollars behind them would agree to something like this, but then again, revenues back then were not as seperated as they are now. College Football has realised its money making capabilities and the ACC plainly did not, as a whole.

3. Which leads us to the question why ACC officials would not let lawyers review their current GOR in a public setting. Fairly simple to answer: Because it would get killed in court. If you have nothing to hide, there is no problem. If you have something to hide, it smells really bad. And that smell goes all the way to Germany. The contents of that GOR must be so bad that ACC lawyers have advised officials to proceed that way. They likely can do that, but the fact that they are doing it that way is really bad. I remember that there was an article by The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3396108/2022/07/01/acc-grant-of-rights-staples/) that explains this really well. A document that clarifies media rights and essentially handles hundres of millions of dollars should not be a couple of pages.

4. Whoever agreed on granting ESPN to have an option for broadcasting rights that would automatically extend the GOR for another ten years without the universities choice needs to be fired and beaten up immediately. Whoever agreed on letting ESPN get off the hook by 2027 but locks you in a GOR for ten additional years without an exit that does not cost half a billion dollars should receive the same punishment. This may also conclude that the GOR is not a contract, as the parties do not enact on the same level and one party severely benefits whilst the other does not. But thats purely speculation that high-level-officials will likely discuss about. Tricky.

5. Miami should follow suit and probably will. I am 99% sure (the remaining 1 % is me lacking info) that Miami has been informed and updated over FSUs work over the past year, because the situation applies to us in the exact same way as it applies to FSU. The reason why FSU goes forward and attacks is because they are a publicly funded state university with an exit plan in hand and not a private university like we are. FSUs interest of exiting the ACC could very likely enter politics, as their playoff situation has already done so. And this matters waaaaaay more than people think.

6. Its completely impossible to say that FSU will leave for free, but they will leave with a much cheaper exit fee compared to the one that is existing now.

7. This case will set a precedent for all future GORs and likely cause every remaining conference to legally check and adjust theirs to prevent this from happening.

8. My prediction: FSU gets support from Miami, who join in this lawsuit. ACC buckles down to the pressure, essentially allowing both of them to leave at reduced pricing. The battle for power goes to the other remaining teams within the ACC and a completely new GOR will be negotiated to prevent other universities from suing in their respective states.

A post agreeing with everything @TheOriginalCane said, but twice as long…

Impressive.

To summarize: Bender agrees with TOC
 
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Not sure if this has been mentioned but FSU thought they never got a break before, just wait till now. Every sport they're going to be the pariah, the ones trying to destroy the conference, and my guess is their athletic matches will be officiated as such.

Which is an entirely ridiculous parallel issue in college sports…
 
Are you sure about this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but as we saw recently with the breakup of the Pac-12, some of these universities aren't exactly employing the best and brightest to run their schools and conferences...
lol.
Now you put it that way, maybe not.
If the whole thing wasn’t mismanaged so badly, the ACC and their member schools wouldn’t be in this mess is the first place.
Not having a spot somewhere would be huge gamble for FSU, and if they lose that bet could end up in the BIG12. Would that really be a step up from ACC?
 
Also depends on whether the contract requires a specific jurisdiction for any lawsuits, which it probably does.


Here is a copy of the original GOR, which is silent on choice of jurisdiction.

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I'm just a blue collar idiot but, the fact that the GOR contract is kept under lock and key like some Top Secret, national security document should be a huge red flag. Viewing it must be scheduled, supervised and no pictures/video or written ver batem notes......Hmmmmmm
 
lol.
Now you put it that way, maybe not.
If the whole thing wasn’t mismanaged so badly, the ACC and their member schools wouldn’t be in this mess is the first place.
Not having a spot somewhere would be huge gamble for FSU, and if they lose that bet could end up in the BIG12. Would that really be a step up from ACC?
Oh, 100%. Many of these schools and conferences have no vision for the future and no idea of what they're doing in the present. Just look at our football coaching hires over the last two decades. One of the major reasons that Maryland left the ACC a decade ago was because they had mismanaged themselves into so much debt that the promise of future Big Ten money was the only way for their athletic department to be solvent. They STILL aren't getting full shares from the conference in revenue (mostly because they had to borrow $120 million from the conference in order to make up for shortfalls, and now they have to gradually pay that back out of their conference revenue).

I have no idea what conversations have gone on behind the scenes, but FSU is the desperate one here, not the Big Ten or SEC. There's not a huge incentive for either conference to strike a deal with the Noles until they see the results of their attempts to get out of the ACC. Would the Big Ten or SEC think twice about immediately adding an FSU that owes $500 million in debt? Or would they rather wait 5-10 years and add them later on when the finances work better for everyone involved? I don't know the answer to that, but it wouldn't surprise me to see FSU taking a risk here -- with their recent actions and tons of whining, their admin strikes me as the "act first, figure things out later" type.
 
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TheOriginalCane- I'll go along with your train of thought EXCEPT I don't agree Miami should be part of the lawsuit. Let FSU spend their money to set the precedent. If successful, there will certainly be a major shakeup in the ACC.
 
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I'm just a blue collar idiot but, the fact that the GOR contract is kept under lock and key like some Top Secret, national security document should be a huge red flag. Viewing it must be scheduled, supervised and no pictures/video or written ver batem notes......Hmmmmmm


It's actually the big/full ESPN contract that is the bigger problem.

The GOR is out there (I just posted it). The GOR extension is out there (I previously posted it).

The contract that nobody has really seen is the ESPN TV contract with the ACC.
 
TheOriginalCane- I'll go along with your train of thought EXCEPT I don't agree Miami should be part of the lawsuit. Let FSU spend their money to set the precedent. If successful, there will certainly be a major shakeup in the ACC.


Whatever. If you think there will be an actual verdict here...

I can't. I've made it clear. This will be settled. There will BE NO legal precedent to follow.

We need to sue to negotiate. While I appreciate all the people trying NOT to spend UM's money, we actually need to pay the cost to be the boss.
 
Whatever. If you think there will be an actual verdict here...

I can't. I've made it clear. This will be settled. There will BE NO legal precedent to follow.

We need to sue to negotiate. While I appreciate all the people trying NOT to spend UM's money, we actually need to pay the cost to be the boss.
Granted no legal precedent would be available in a settlement - but seems we are NOT in a rush to vacate while rebuilding a powerhouse. IF FSU leaves that could be additional grounds for opting out or would certainly be a green light to sue - assuming the BOT desire to leave.
 
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