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For those that "actually" want to discuss...our future (since the season is over)

Consigliere

Consigliere

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This is a thread for those that "actually" want to discuss the status of our program and coach. There are those that think Coach L should stay indefinitely. There are those that think he should be fired and we should move on. There are some in between. Here are some questions:

For those that want the Lifetime Extension or don't want him fired, here are the questions:

1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami?

2. What makes you think that?

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward?

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him?

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For those that want to fire Coach L, here are the questions:

1. What were your expectations before the season (2017-18)?

2. Did you expectations change, for whatever reason, as the season transpired?

3. Where did you expect to be after 7 years with a coach?

4. If we fired Coach L, who is on your list to replace him to get us to the next step?

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I think it goes without saying, when replacing Coach L, let's be realistic. We're not going to get Coach K or Izzo or someone like Pitino (toxic).

This is going to be very difficult for the trolls but this is everyone's opportunity, no matter what side, to actually discuss the subject matter in a structured manner.
 
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I don't at all think Larranaga has hit a ceiling—but I do question how Miami is going to get over any hump with these one-and-done guys like Lonnie Walker (and even Bruce Brown sticking around two years.) I think Larranaga has a good basketball mind, is a likable guy, a good coach and does well on the recruiting trail with families due to who he is as a person. He's the type of coach parents want their kids to play for.

Coaching didn't lose the game against Chicago-Loyola; the kids did. The mistakes, the turnovers, the missed free throws—guys didn't rise up in the moment (whereas last year's opening round loss to Michigan State was a total no-show.)

As for the "who should replace him" list posed—absolutely pointless to ask. The school is going to go what the school is going to do when it comes time for a new hire. Everyone was clamoring for Richt to hire Kevin Patrick on the d-line when Kuligowski left for Alabama, but Richt went with Jess Simpson and his deep Georgia ties.

In short; fans' opinions about replacement coaches is a waste of time and energy.
 
ItsAUThing.com said:
In short; fans' opinions about replacement coaches is a waste of time and energy.
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Why I appreciate your post, the point is to have a structured discussion so this isn't necessary. In addition, this is a hypothetical question/situation.

If you don't want to discuss the questions, then don't post.
 
Consigliere said:
This is a thread for those that "actually" want to discuss the status of our program and coach. There are those that think Coach L should stay indefinitely. There are those that think he should be fired and we should move on. There are some in between. Here are some questions:

For those that want the Lifetime Extension or don't want him fired, here are the questions:

1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami? No. He can do more if this FBI investigation is over.

2. What makes you think that? It takes years to build up a real consistent contender and at the start of this year we were in posiition to compete for years. And even with our best all around player out we still finished 3rd in the ACC. We were set up to be better than we ever have been. And if miracoulously Bruce and Lonnie come back next year we are a legit national contender. Unfortnately, they will both leave and if this FBI cloud isn't lifted than we might have reached out ceiling but that isn't on L.

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward? To continue to learn from his mistakes and be a good coach.

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him? No idea. If he does, our program is screwed.

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For those that want to fire Coach L, here are the questions: Whoever wants to fire Coach L is clueless and you really shouldn't waste your time listening to what they have to say.

1. What were your expectations before the season (2017-18)?

2. Did you expectations change, for whatever reason, as the season transpired?

3. Where did you expect to be after 7 years with a coach?

4. If we fired Coach L, who is on your list to replace him to get us to the next step?

-----------------------------------------------

I think it goes without saying, when replacing Coach L, let's be realistic. We're not going to get Coach K or Izzo or someone like Pitino (toxic).

This is going to be very difficult for the trolls but this is everyone's opportunity, no matter what side, to actually discuss the subject matter in a structured manner.
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No he hasn't reached his ceiling, but unfortunately at his age and experience he has some learning to do on how to get the maximum potential out of 4 and 5 star recruits. He completely dropped the ball on putting his players in position to maximize their talents. They looked totally undisciplined this year and not being able to execute his game plan. This team should have been a top 10 team through out the season and should have at least made it to the sweet 16.
I don't see anyone out there to replace him. Also I don't think he will win a National Title. He's not a Championship Coach. There are not many Coaches out there capable of leading his team to a Championship. THAT IS VERY RARE. However he will have winning seasons and occasional ACC Championships. Who knows he might prove me wrong and win it all in the next few years because he's not getting any younger. He doesn't have many more coaching seasons left in him and he has a competitive team for the foreseeable future.
Hopefully he learns from this season and do a better job maximizing his players talents moving forward and have much improved discipline.
Personally he needs to bring in much better Assistants.
 
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1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami? - I think he can do more as long as there aren't any sanctions.

2. What makes you think that? - He showed the ability to pull together a dominant team with the 2013 squad. He just has to find the right mix and the kids (read: the whole team) has to buy in like that team did. His record against UNC/Duke alone shows me that he has Miami basketball in a place it's never really ever been.

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward? - My biggest complaint has been a lack of offensive execution and variability of our offensive sets. When the high ball screen is working, and our guys are making shots, it looks great. Against some teams though - you have to have different sets that you can throw at the defense - especially if teams are mixing up defenses on us (see our struggles against zones this year). Some of this is personnel, some of this is coaching. I like that Coach L tends to coach towards his players strengths, but it our strengths aren't better than the opposing defense (overall or on that given day), we have to come up with better ideas than throwing out the same 2 or 3 offensive sets and counting on hero ball by Newton/Walker/Lykes/etc to bail us out as we've been stonewalled to the end of the shot clock.

I HOPE and would expect a coach like Coach L to be cognizant enough to either install more sets, and/or get players that can run his sets with a higher level of execution. IF we want this team to continue to play in the upper tier of the ACC and have runs to the Sweet 16 (and hopefully in a good year, beyond), then that has to be a focus.

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him? - I'm not 100% sure. There are 2 mid major coaches that I like that would probably jump at the job if offered, and I've watched their teams closely because East Tenn State is a local team to me.

ETSU's coach Steve Forbes is a guy that lets his players play, he's a player's coach a lot like Coach L. He loves teams that push tempo, and he recruits well at that level in the Southern Conference. His pedigree as an assistant comes from stops at Tennessee, Texas A&M, and most recently at Wichita St before he took the ETSU job. He's a fiery dude...fun to watch coach. ETSU is a mid major program with some pretty good history compared to most, and Forbes took them to the NCAA Tourney last season.

The other one is a guy that was just in the tourney from the SoCon - Wes Miller from UNC Greensboro. He played at JMU and walked on to UNC - won a national title in 2005 as a rostered player...he wasn't anything special as a player, but he does have a ring. He's a younger coach, not as much experience as Forbes, but has recruited some ballers and has built the UNCG program up to the point of going a combined 52-18 over the past 2 years. His guys pushed Gonzaga hard in the first round yesterday before getting bounced.

I'm not sure I'd look in-house and just hire Chris Caputo or Jamal Brunt - I don't feel great about that at all. I would listen to Eric Konkol (former asst under Coach L, current HC at Louisiana Tech) if he wanted the job - that guy has an "it" factor to him, IMO...but he would have to convince me he's ready for an ACC job with some success at LA Tech.
 
I definitely don't think he should be fired.

But this FBI thing has to get wrapped up. The 18 class is ****ed, and if the 19 class suffers the same fate (and we lose guys like Carey), then it is going to be very hard IMO to defend him going forward

May not be his fault, but that would be two recruiting classes down the drain. Very hard to bounce back from that, no matter how good of a coach. Especially at his age

Also I think it's fair to ask, why aren't other schools being effected the same way by this? I get the five stars eliminating us, but to not even be going after 3 or 4 stars? I don't get how the situation is that toxic where we have no targets
 
I don't think that there should be a second dedicated to the thought of firing Coach L unless there is some proof that there is some truth to the FBI stuff AND that he was involved...which by all accounts so far sounds like is not the case. I completely understand everyone's frustration with how this season went and ended, and I think it's completely reasonable at this point to expect us to have higher expectations than just making the tournament. But, I also think that the sustained success and interest in the program is an achievement we cannot ignore, and Coach L is responsible for that success and interest, and I have no reason he won't be able to both maintain and improve on that success.

It seems to me that there are 2 somewhat frequent paths to success for teams in NCAA basketball - the team with the blue chip talent (Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas) and the teams with good talent but with veteran leaders (UVA, South Carolina (last year), our 2013 team). There are obviously variations and other paths, but to me, those seem to be the types of squads going deep into the tournament. While our recruiting has certainly seen a big improvement, it seems much more likely that our path will be the one of our 2013 team, and as others have noted in this thread and others, that's the type of team that Coach L has succeeded with, and I think will succeed with in the future.

I expect that going forward, Coach L should continue to have us in the top 1/3 of the ACC, with reaching the NCAA tournament as the regular expectation, and with making it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament something that happens every other year. Don't get me wrong, I would love for us to become a more legit threat to actually make a run in the tournament, and I hope that he's able to do so, but to expect that as the baseline is, in my opinion, unrealistic.
 
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First, Consigliere, thank you for posting this. I know we all are emotional after yesterday, and imposing some rationality is always a good idea. I'm clearly in the retain Coach L camp.

1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami?

He can do more. There is a ceiling, but that ceiling is as much UM as it is Coach L, meaning that any successor coach would likely face a similar ceiling -- caused by a lack of history, fan/student apathy, being a football school, and a lack of local talent devoted to the U.

2. What makes you think that?

For years prior to this year, I have seen Coach L overachieve compared to our talent on the court. In many years, we would have far less talent than many other teams, particularly in the ACC, yet go on and beat them, and finish higher in the ACC standings. This year is an aberration, caused in part by distractions (I believe that the FBI probe has been a bigger deal to Coach L than he suggests) and player discord. I don't expect that we will see the same from Coach L and the team next year. If for some reason we do, then I will start having serious concerns with the direction of the program.

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward?

I expect Coach L will take significant steps to improve the program. While he has expressed satisfaction with the program in post-game press conferences, he certainly isn't oblivious to some of the issues this year. I think (and hope) he is open to changes in the defensive approach and offensive philosophy. I also think our foray into the one-and-dones is going to end soon -- not just because we don't seem to be able to recruit them, but I also think Coach L may realize that his coaching talents don't mesh well with kids who aren't here for multiple years.

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him?

I don't have specific names, but I think you need to play to your strengths to break through the aforementioned ceiling. In S. FL, that means playing a wide open, aggressive form of basketball. That plays well with fans (we aren't UVA or Wisconsin where fans will show for anything), keeps recruits interested, etc. A coach that is young, hungry, and personable is ideal. We ought to be flashy in a way that reflects Miami -- the media will love that. However, that person also needs to be able to manage kids in an enticing environment -- we seem to be a magnet for the worst NCAA infractions, and we need someone who can keep our hands clean. On top of that, I like a coach that is versatile -- will switch defenses quickly, slows/speeds the game as dictated, isn't afraid to full-court press, and is equally comfortable with back doors and off-ball screens as he is with highlight dunks. Probably a lot to ask for, but it speaks to how difficult it is to find someone who checks all of the boxes to make our Canes an NCAA contender. Oh, and we had better pay him well, because if he is all of those things, he isn't working for a below market salary.
 
In terms of competence and leadership, I don't want Coach L fired. To achieve a double championship (win both regular season and Tourney) in the ACC is a feat I personally did not think any coach was likely to ever accomplish here. That aside:

I just wish there had been a much tougher, more declarative response from UM and Coach L on this FBI matter from the jump. I know lawyers probably told them to say nothing and to hope it blew over. Coach has said he absolutely knows there has been no wrongdoing; that being the case, it might've been better, in hindsight, to have issued a Sean Miller-type statement back at the start.

We didn't choose to do that and the "wait and see" strategy we adopted now has us twisting in the wind. At this point, I think Coach L and Blake James and President Frenk are stuck with each other for the duration, however long the FBI investigation proves to take.
 
I think he can do better than this year at Miami. A season similar to 2013 is probably the peak. Like it or not Miami isn't a traditional bball power where coaches can win national championships.

Why would you fire Larranga? He's been our best bball coach ever.

With that being said I don't think Larranga will be coach for too much longer. He's 68 years old. If he's going to take us to a Final Four he doesn't have too much longer to do it. And frankly I don't want him coaching for too much longer. While I appreciate what he's done at Miami, he's getting pretty close to the point where he's simply too old to coach.
 
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There is no way he's reached his ceiling. He's had his best recruiting classes ever in the last 2 years and was/is in place for the #1 player in 2019. If not for this investigation we'd still be ascending. His ability to coach is unquestioned it was always talent that held him back from being great. We were in the process of fixing that.

Coach L has to learn to coach one and doners. Although the kids are well coached they aren't dominant. LW and BB don't seem to have that attack mentality that Darius Rice had or Guierllmo Diaz had as freshmen. Maybe they had more expectations put on them. I'd just like to see our 5* guys actually play like great basketball players while they are with us instead of just being potentially good NBA players.
 
Good discussion so far.

1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami?

I think he can do more, but there are structural issues that HLSCane mentioned. Getting to the Sweet 16 on a regular basis (once every two to four years) isn't unreasonable.

2. What makes you think that?

Coach L has historically excelled at taking less talented (average) players and creating a team that is greater than the sum of its individual parts. That's the only way to have success at George Mason. And that's how he started at Miami. The last couple years have been a new experience in terms of the talent level we were recruiting and it took several solid seasons to build up to that. Sadly, the FBI has stopped that in its tracks, so any momentum there has been halted, hopefully only temporarily. Coaching a bunch of potential one-and-done's is different and I imagine that's been a learning experience and I wonder how much of what we do offensively is to appease those players (to the detriment of the team).

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward?

Hopefully he reviews his assitants, who might be better recruiters than coaches, and make some adjustments. We have to change what we do offensively and find a way to create some easy buckets that don't require a great one-on-one play. Defensively, we don't help/recover/rotate well. Find a way to have fun again and get back to teaching. There are pieces to work with even if Brown and Walker leave. Team chemistry was lacking and maybe we get addition by subtraction there.

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him?

Thankfully I'm not the AD as I don't have a short list of names. The next coach can't come from this staff would be my only hard and fast rule. It didn't work for football and isn't going to work for baseball.
 
Don't think firing coach l would be a smart move.shouldn't even be a topic among fans.guess some of you forgot what it was like around here before he came along.he has done great things around here even changed the culture about basketball here.plus even if brown and walker turn pro which will hurt if they do theres still a good group of young players here.
 
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numbers said:
Hopefully he reviews his assitants, who might be better recruiters than coaches, and make some adjustments. We have to change what we do offensively and find a way to create some easy buckets that don't require a great one-on-one play. Defensively, we don't help/recover/rotate well. Find a way to have fun again and get back to teaching. There are pieces to work with even if Brown and Walker leave. Team chemistry was lacking and maybe we get addition by subtraction there.
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I think he may need to change some coaches. The offense struggled last year too and after two years, it is time for change.
 
Consigliere said:
I think he may need to change some coaches. The offense struggled last year too and after two years, it is time for change.
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Absolute need is for a free throw shooting coach. He predicted early on that it would cost a game and the final game proved him correct.
 
SPAMM said:
Absolute need is for a free throw shooting coach. He predicted early on that it would cost a game and the final game proved him correct.
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Not for nothing but we shot 71.8% last year.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba.../freeThrowPct/year/2017/seasontype/2/count/81

The year before that we shot 75.1%

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...rows/sort/freeThrowPct/year/2016/seasontype/2

This year we shot 66.2% which was way down but it is easy to see where part of the fault comes from...

Two players shot really poorly:

Brown: 44-70 (62.9%)

Newton: 57-92 (62.0%)

Brown shot 74.4% last year. Newton was 70.3% before this year (239-340).
 
For those that want the Lifetime Extension or don't want him fired, here are the questions:

1. Do you think Coach has hit a ceiling or can he do more at Miami?

I think he can do more. He's invigorated a Miami fan base that wasn't following the program. I think he is retrospective enough to see what did and did not work this year.

2. What makes you think that?

The program was beginning to attract top level interest recruiting wise. To get IV and Lykes last year and be in the hunt for guys like IQ and JC this year was big. However you may feel about offense execution and, to a lesser extent, poor defense toward the end of the year, some of it could be attributable to off court distractions. At times, Coach L seemed downbeat, at times unfocused. I believe he can and will adjust though.

3. What do you expect from Coach L going forward?

I hear the calls to evaluate things and am certain of looks into the mirror in the off season. As I mentioned elsewhere though, let's not forget this staff has been together sine the 2015 season (sweet 16). I think JB, and Fish as well, are great recruiters. Still, I think the loss of Huger and Konkol definitely hurt. L's guys had pretty much been in place for years. Coach L is loyal, at times to a fault, so my guess is we see no changes to the staff. Hopefully, we see better utilization and development of our bigs. Huell needs to get stronger, much more aggressive and become a better defender. Really curious how Gak looks next year. I'd also like to see emphasis on better ball movement. Attack the **** zone. Expect Lykes to develop significantly and be a much better player.

4. If Coach L decided to step down, who is on your list to replace him?

This is not a Frank Haith job anymore. We have the potential to finish right up there in probably the toughest league in the country on a yearly basis. I think the admin would be prepared to spend. Names I'd like to see: Ed Cooley, Providence. Yes, I know he's from there, has said he wasn't interested in leaving and signed a 10 year contract. Greg McDermott, Creighton. Another guy who stated he doesn't want to go anywhere, I know. Frank Martin, SC. With Donna gone, I think he'd actually have a shot of landing here. If I went mid major and they were available, I'd take a long hard look at Earl Grant, College of Charleston and TJ Otzelberger, SD State. Both are well pedigreed.
 
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