Finally Admit Lanning > Mario

[cway313]

 

[RVACane]

I'm not mixing things up, I just don't call NORMAL GRADUATION a "roster flip".

17 players went into the Portal.

That means 31 players graduated.

We can agree to disagree, but I don't call that a roster flip. That's just college life, particularly after the COVID year, when you had a bunch of guys who should have graduated in 2020 getting one additional year and leaving the team after 2021 instead of 2020.

Also, don't conflate what I said with what other people said. I did not say Mario "inherited an empty cupboard". As we know, famously, ONE player got pushed out by Mario. But the culture was ****. The talent, as developed (or lack thereof) was ****.

I get what you are saying about the "ranking" of the talent, but it's like the difference between purchasing a beautiful bunch of bananas from Publix...and then trying to eat those bananas three weeks later.

Again, I don't know why people gloss over this point, but we had players living in BROWARD COUNTY. The whole system of discipline and culture and accountability was terrible under Manny. I'm not blaming specific 2022 scores and outcomes on Manny, but Mario was not starting out with the same level of talent at Miami that he left behind at Oregon.

Finally, the reason for the differential in "what someone started with or inherited" is not merely the roster, per se. More importantly, for multiple years, Miami and Mario had to pay the "suck tax" in order to recruit the best talent, something that Oregon has not had to do under Lanning. That's just a reality, and it's the reason why the next F$U head corch will not be able to win right away, no matter how many guys he flips off of Prison Mike's roster.

And I award you full points for the Kinison "Back to School" reference...

We’re arguing terminology, and I already agreed that “flip” was imprecise. I called it roster turnover and specifically said Lanning did not personally push 40% of the roster out.

But your original claim that the 40% figure came from the 34 portal exits after Lanning’s first season was still incorrect. The official rosters show 39% turnover before his first season.

Also, subtracting 17 portal exits from 48 total departures does not prove the other 31 all graduated. That group would also include players who ran out of eligibility, went to the NFL, retired or left for other reasons.

I agree that Oregon was the better starting point. Where I disagree is using “culture” as a catch-all excuse for our results. Manny had a bad culture compared to Mario at Oregon but UM had the No. 12 talent composite, we started ranked at 16 and Mario brought in 53 newcomers.

If Manny’s players sucked ok but he still won 7 games with them. . Mario restocked the shelf and won 5. At some point the new coach owns the results.

The criticisms of Mario in years one and two were quite appropriate given the performance on the field, the coaching gaffs at he staff hires… whatever. But a few slurper bros want to keep starting crap and I’m going to start going after them to end it.

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

Lanning not only inherited a bunch of talent, he inherited a team with winning culture. Mario inherited a team where guys were dancing on the sidelines while getting blown out. Miami was a complete tear down and rebuild job. Lanning didn't have to do that. He was given a Ferrari and all he had to do was keep the oil changed, lol

Middle tennesee was bad but we lost to ******* FIU under Manny and had players dancing on the sidelines while doing it. IDK how in the world a mf thought Mario was gonna walk in to a ****show like that and win immediately it was veryyy BADDDDDD here culture wise i saw it first hand. There were talented guys on the roster but they weren't serious about winning football games

 

[Pearson704]

My response acknowledges that Lanning came into a better situation at Oregon than Mario did at Miami, and that he flipped 40% of the roster right off the bat. By your logic, then Mario completely failed in year 1 because he took Manny’s 7-5 roster, flipped close to the same amount as Lanning and immediately went 5-7.

Therefore, the criticism was plenty warranted in years 1 and 2.

This concept negates the talent-level, culture, and trajectory of each program at point zero.

Mario left Lanning a highly-competitive, conference championship program with a rock-solid foundation to build upon. The Miami program Mario inherited was barely .500 for several consecutive seasons, had lost to FIU, and allowed UNC to rush for over 550 yards in a single game.

The 5-7 from Mario in year 1 is reflective of the deeper structural rot he inherited, and that the 60% wasn't worth keeping.

 

[RVACane]

Middle tennesee was bad but we lost to ******* FIU under Manny and had players dancing on the sidelines while doing it. IDK how in the world a mf thought Mario was gonna walk in to a ****show like that and win immediately it was veryyy BADDDDDD here culture wise i saw it first hand. There were talented guys on the roster but they weren't serious about winning football games

Because Manny won 7 games and people thought Mario would at least do that including an MTSU win not loss. He had what 247 said was the 12 most talented roster in that year so people thought he’d at least get win’s commensurate with the talent he had per 247.

 

[RVACane]

This concept negates the talent-level, culture, and trajectory of each program at point zero.

Mario left Lanning a highly-competitive, conference championship program with a rock-solid foundation to build upon. The Miami program Mario inherited was barely .500 for several consecutive seasons, had lost to FIU, and allowed UNC to rush for over 550 yards in a single game.

The 5-7 from Mario in year 1 is reflective of the deeper structural rot he inherited, and that the 60% wasn't worth keeping.

If trajectory at point zero matters, why are you citing the 2019 FIU game and the 2020 UNC game while ignoring what happened immediately before Mario arrived?

Miami finished 2021 by winning five of its final six games, including wins over ranked NC State and Pitt. TVD threw for at least 300 yards and three touchdowns in six straight games. That was the actual trajectory at point zero.

I acknowledge that the program was far from perfect and that Lanning came into a better situation at Oregon than Mario did at UM, however, describing UM as structurally rotten and claiming 60% of the roster was not worth keeping is a subjective, after-the-fact explanation for why Mario took a 7–5 team, replaced roughly 40% of its roster and went 5–7.

If 60% was not worth keeping and Mario replaced most of the rest, that makes the 5–7 result more deserving of criticism, not less.

 

[RVACane]

Can the rest of youze guys tell I had a little extra time on my hands today??? I’m getting bored now. Not intended as an insult.

@Pearson704 can appreciate this with his educational and professional background but it’s nighttime and the morning’s Vyvanse has long worn off.