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Finally Admit Lanning > Mario

TitansHope said:
the thing about this is that the "trust the process" people and the mopes both had legitimate facts to point to regarding mario's first couple of years here. he did a really good job of building the trenches from the moment he stepped in the door, recruiting overall took a significant step up, and our record improved every year. however, he also made some genuinely awful coordinator hires that he was lucky to get second (and third!) chances on, and obviously had some bad (and one horrendous) game management moments.

the reality is that both camps were right in some respects, but what's happened is that mario is no longer the same coach he was when we hired him. he's grown and changed just like a player might have, and we're better for it. but acknowledging that instead of just continuing to snipe at each other is beyond the capacity of many of the mouth breathers on this board.
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Pearson704 said:
Focusing on the 40% who left while ignoring the 60% who stayed is grasping at straws--especially since a significant part of Dan Lanning’s early success rested on the offensive line, which was comprised of players Mario Cristobal recruited and developed.

Your response--in effect--acknowledges Lanning was standing on Mario's shoulders.
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My response acknowledges that Lanning came into a better situation at Oregon than Mario did at Miami, and that he flipped 40% of the roster right off the bat. By your logic, then Mario completely failed in year 1 because he took Manny’s 7-5 roster, flipped close to the same amount as Lanning and immediately went 5-7.

Therefore, the criticism was plenty warranted in years 1 and 2.
 
RVACane said:
This is a statement some of you guys like to make and it’s not reflective of what actually happened and @Rellyrell has provided the information previously.

It’s true, Mario left Oregon with a better roster than Manny left at Miami, however, Lanning flipped Mario’s roster quickly and at a large clip… I think 40% in year 1 - actually more than Mario flipped at miami in year one but Relly can confirm if that’s correct.

The premise that Lanning was only successful initially at Oregon because of Mario’s roster is not supported by the makeup of the Oregon roster during those times.
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Yes, but Lanning didn't "flip" Mario's roster out of necessity (like Neon Deion did at Colorado), he did so because a number of Oregon players left.

And I don't think anyone is saying that Lanning was "only successful initially" because of Mario's roster. But it helped.

Per 247, in early 2021 (the beginning of Mario's final year at Oregon), the Ducks lost 12 players to the Portal.

In late 2021/early 2022, the Ducks lost 17 players to the Portal and brought in 11. So the Portal losses under Lanning (Year 1) were not really out of line for what happened the year before, when Mario was the head coach.

Of those 17 Portal losses:

5 went to Nevada (2021 Oregon DC took the HC job at Nevada)
2 went to FSU
2 went to Auburn
2 went to UCLA
2 went to Miami
1 went to Southern Cal
1 went to Mizzou
1 went to Brigham Young

That doesn't seem like a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to be at Oregon (except maybe the 2 losers who went to FSU). Just my 2 cents.

And for the record, you may have confused the roster flip AFTER Lanning's first year (heading into his second year) when 34 Oregon players entered the Portal.
 
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Pearson704 said:
Focusing on the 40% who left while ignoring the 60% who stayed is grasping at straws--especially since a significant part of Dan Lanning’s early success rested on the offensive line, which was comprised of players Mario Cristobal recruited and developed.

Your response--in effect--acknowledges Lanning was standing on Mario's shoulders.
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The "40%" who left Oregon entered the Portal AFTER Lanning's first year, not the year that Mario left for Miami.

17 Oregon players entered the Portal the year that Mario left. 34 Oregon players entered the Portal after Lanning's first year.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Yes, but Lanning didn't "flip" Mario's roster out of necessity (like Neon Deion did at Colorado), he did so because a number of Oregon players left.

And I don't think anyone is saying that Lanning was "only successful initially" because of Mario's roster. But it helped.

Per 247, in early 2021 (the beginning of Mario's final year at Oregon), the Ducks lost 12 players to the Portal.

In late 2021/early 2022, the Ducks lost 17 players to the Portal and brought in 11. So the Portal losses under Lanning (Year 1) were not really out of line for what happened the year before, when Mario was the head coach.

Of those 17 Portal losses:

5 went to Nevada (2021 Oregon DC took the HC job at Nevada)
2 went to FSU
2 went to Auburn
2 went to UCLA
2 went to Miami
1 went to Southern Cal
1 went to Mizzou
1 went to Brigham Young

That doesn't seem like a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to be at Oregon (except maybe the 2 losers who went to FSU). Just my 2 cents.

And for the record, you may have confused the roster flip AFTER Lanning's first year (heading into his second year) when 34 Oregon players entered the Portal.
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TheOriginalCane said:
The "40%" who left Oregon entered the Portal AFTER Lanning's first year, not the year that Mario left for Miami.

17 Oregon players entered the Portal the year that Mario left. 34 Oregon players entered the Portal after Lanning's first year.
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You’re mixing up portal exits with total roster turnover. Only 17 entered the portal during the transition, but 48 of the 123 players on Oregon’s 2021 roster were gone by Lanning’s first season, which is 39%.

Also, 52 players on Lanning’s 127-man roster were newcomers, which is about 41%. The 34 portal exits after his first season were a separate event. Saying Lanning personally pushed out 40% would be wrong, but the roughly 40% roster turnover in Year 1 is still accurate.

Again, nobody is claiming Lanning and Mario inherited identical situations. Oregon was coming off a 10-4 season with the No. 9 talent composite, while Miami was 7-5 and ranked No. 13. Oregon was clearly the better starting point.

But the idea that Mario inherited an empty cupboard is nonsense. His first Miami roster still ranked No. 12 nationally in talent, started the season ranked No. 16 and returned TVD - yes remember Mario called him the best QB in the country??? Going 5-7, including home losses of 45-31 to Middle Tennessee and 45-21 to Duke, cannot simply be blamed on Manolo.

Lanning inherited the better situation, but he also did considerably more with it. Both things can be true.
 
RVACane said:
This is a statement some of you guys like to make and it’s not reflective of what actually happened and @Rellyrell has provided the information previously.

It’s true, Mario left Oregon with a better roster than Manny left at Miami, however, Lanning flipped Mario’s roster quickly and at a large clip… I think 40% in year 1 - actually more than Mario flipped at miami in year one but Relly can confirm if that’s correct.

The premise that Lanning was only successful initially at Oregon because of Mario’s roster is not supported by the makeup of the Oregon roster during those times.
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This argument depends on what players were left after the purge. It could be that that 40 or 50% were the ones that drove the direction of the program. That’s something that somebody can look into. I’m not interested enough to do that.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
This argument depends on what players were left after the purge. It could be that that 40 or 50% were the ones that drove the direction of the program. That’s something that somebody can look into. I’m not interested enough to do that.
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I’ve looked up enough. I’m just tired of the repeat offender dead horse beaters - not you obviously.
 
SinisterCane said:
Year 4, those 2 losses to inferior teams put us at the mercy of the playoff committee and AT THAT TIME the fanbase was questioning Mario's ability to lead Miami to championships..........I'm happy with Mario of today but lets not act like it wasn't sea state 5 before he got to
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I hate to break it to you but the “Mario of today” is the same guy who lost those two games, got us to the championship and has us ranked #3. He hasn’t changed one iota.

You’re just playing the result.

I’m pretty certain you’re one loss away from not being happy with any Mario…past or present.
 
RVACane said:
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You’re mixing up portal exits with total roster turnover. Only 17 entered the portal during the transition, but 48 of the 123 players on Oregon’s 2021 roster were gone by Lanning’s first season, which is 39%.

Also, 52 players on Lanning’s 127-man roster were newcomers, which is about 41%. The 34 portal exits after his first season were a separate event. Saying Lanning personally pushed out 40% would be wrong, but the roughly 40% roster turnover in Year 1 is still accurate.

Again, nobody is claiming Lanning and Mario inherited identical situations. Oregon was coming off a 10-4 season with the No. 9 talent composite, while Miami was 7-5 and ranked No. 13. Oregon was clearly the better starting point.

But the idea that Mario inherited an empty cupboard is nonsense. His first Miami roster still ranked No. 12 nationally in talent, started the season ranked No. 16 and returned TVD - yes remember Mario called him the best QB in the country??? Going 5-7, including home losses of 45-31 to Middle Tennessee and 45-21 to Duke, cannot simply be blamed on Manolo.

Lanning inherited the better situation, but he also did considerably more with it. Both things can be true.
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I'm not mixing things up, I just don't call NORMAL GRADUATION a "roster flip".

17 players went into the Portal.

That means 31 players graduated.

We can agree to disagree, but I don't call that a roster flip. That's just college life, particularly after the COVID year, when you had a bunch of guys who should have graduated in 2020 getting one additional year and leaving the team after 2021 instead of 2020.

Also, don't conflate what I said with what other people said. I did not say Mario "inherited an empty cupboard". As we know, famously, ONE player got pushed out by Mario. But the culture was ****. The talent, as developed (or lack thereof) was ****.

I get what you are saying about the "ranking" of the talent, but it's like the difference between purchasing a beautiful bunch of bananas from Publix...and then trying to eat those bananas three weeks later.

Again, I don't know why people gloss over this point, but we had players living in BROWARD COUNTY. The whole system of discipline and culture and accountability was terrible under Manny. I'm not blaming specific 2022 scores and outcomes on Manny, but Mario was not starting out with the same level of talent at Miami that he left behind at Oregon.

Finally, the reason for the differential in "what someone started with or inherited" is not merely the roster, per se. More importantly, for multiple years, Miami and Mario had to pay the "suck tax" in order to recruit the best talent, something that Oregon has not had to do under Lanning. That's just a reality, and it's the reason why the next F$U head corch will not be able to win right away, no matter how many guys he flips off of Prison Mike's roster.

And I award you full points for the Kinison "Back to School" reference...
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
This argument depends on what players were left after the purge. It could be that that 40 or 50% were the ones that drove the direction of the program. That’s something that somebody can look into. I’m not interested enough to do that.
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It's a very relevant question.

As mentioned above, we cannot count the guys who graduated. Penei Sewell was never going to play for Dan Lanning, and I don't count him as part of a "roster flip".

In Lanning's first year, he led Oregon to a 10-3 record and a #15 ranking. He did that with three groups of players:

1. Guys on the roster that Mario recruited
2. 11 transfers - by far, the most impactful were Bo Nix, Bucky Irving (#1 rusher) and Noah Whittington (#2 rusher), but only 1 of the top 10 tacklers on defense was a transfer (he was #8 in total tackles for Oregon)
3. 17 high school enrollees (the 18th signee was an Aussie punter), most of whom did not contribute much production to the 2022 team

So, again, ignoring graduation, 17 guys went into the Portal, 11 guys joined from the Portal, and 18 new recruits enrolled. I give Dan Lanning FULL CREDIT for Bo Nix, Bucky Irving, and Noah Whittington. I'll even give him Christian Gonzalez on defense (#8 tackler).

Here are the other 7 transfers that Lanning brought in for his first year:

--Caleb Chapman (WR - Texas A&M) - 1 catch
--Adam Barry (P - Temple) - 10 punts, 39.7 yard average
--Casey Rogers (DL - Nebraska) - 9 tackles, 9 assists
--Chase Cota (WR - UCLA) - 23 catches
--Jordon Riley (DL - Nebraska) - 4 tackles, 8 assists
--Andrew Boyle (K - Washington State) - Camden Lewis was the kicker in 2022
--Taki Taimani (DL - Washington) - 3 tackles, 4 assists

Notable freshmen:

--Jahlil Florence (CB) - 5 tackles, 2 assists, 1 INT
--Jordan James (RB) - 32 carries for 133 yards, 4 TDs
--Khamari Terrell (CB) - 2 tackles, 2 assists

That's it. I'm not being selective. I listed EVERY Portal-in player, and I looked at EVERY signee who had stats such as rushes, catches, tackles, or INTs. That's it.

Again, full credit for Nix, Irving, Whittington, and Gonzalez. Other than that, very pedestrian stats from all of the guys that Lanning brought in from the signing class and the Portal class (just limited to Lanning's first year and the players' first year).

It is an unavoidable conclusion. The vast majority of the offensive and defensive production in Lanning's first year was due to the players that Mario left him. And, ****, I'll give extra credit for landing the #1 QB and the #1 RB in the Portal. FULL CREDIT AND EXTRA CREDIT. But those are just 2 starters out of 22 total guys on offense and defense.

Come on. Let's not call this a "roster flip" and put a crown on Lanning's head. He did a great job in his first year with Mario's players, outside of QB and RB. And beyond that, Lanning has maintained a very good recruiting record and now has all of his own guys on the roster.

But to insinuate that he had to purge the roster or bring in a flotilla of his own players is just...wrong.

Bo Nix and Bucky Irving were home runs, though. Kudos.
 
Here's a thought:

Mario
2021 - #7 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-4 record, #22 AP final ranking
Lanning
2022 - #16 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-3 record, #15 AP final ranking
2023 - #9 overall ranked recruiting class, 12-2 record, #6 AP final ranking
2024 - #4 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-1 record, #3 AP final ranking
2025 - #3 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-2 record, #4 AP final ranking
2026 - 3-2 record, #25 AP ranking

Manny
2021 - #11 overall ranked recruiting class, 7-5 record
Mario
2022 - #13 overall ranked recruiting class, 5-7 record
2023 - #8 overall ranked recruiting class, 7-6 record
2024 - #6 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-3 record, #18 AP final ranking
2025 - #14 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-3 record, #2 AP final ranking
2026 - 5-0 record, #3 AP ranking

Why is Lanning slipping? He has the talent. He's always had the talent.
 
Hopefully the legend of Dan Lanning has finally been put to rest on here. His teams are charmin soft once they punched in the mouth & As of today most would rather Mario leading their program even their own fans & #6 is on the way. **** Oregon
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Here's a thought:

Mario
2021 - #7 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-4 record, #22 AP final ranking
Lanning
2022 - #16 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-3 record, #15 AP final ranking
2023 - #9 overall ranked recruiting class, 12-2 record, #6 AP final ranking
2024 - #4 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-1 record, #3 AP final ranking
2025 - #3 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-2 record, #4 AP final ranking
2026 - 3-2 record, #25 AP ranking

Manny
2021 - #11 overall ranked recruiting class, 7-5 record
Mario
2022 - #13 overall ranked recruiting class, 5-7 record
2023 - #8 overall ranked recruiting class, 7-6 record
2024 - #6 overall ranked recruiting class, 10-3 record, #18 AP final ranking
2025 - #14 overall ranked recruiting class, 13-3 record, #2 AP final ranking
2026 - 5-0 record, #3 AP ranking

Why is Lanning slipping? He has the talent. He's always had the talent.
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Lanning not only inherited a bunch of talent, he inherited a team with winning culture. Mario inherited a team where guys were dancing on the sidelines while getting blown out. Miami was a complete tear down and rebuild job. Lanning didn't have to do that. He was given a Ferrari and all he had to do was keep the oil changed, lol
 
Now that both guys have had their chance to turn their programs into what they want it to be, it's clear who you should want as your coach.

I don't think Lanning will fail due to the resources he has but him and Sark are very similar in not being able to push past the underachiever label. Sark loses games he shouldn't and Lanning gets his doodoo pushed in when it matters the most even with having the best rosters in the sport. Less with more type guys.
 
Go Canes!! said:
I hate to break it to you but the “Mario of today” is the same guy who lost those two games, got us to the championship and has us ranked #3. He hasn’t changed one iota.

You’re just playing the result.

I’m pretty certain you’re one loss away from not being happy with any Mario…past or present.
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As much as I would love the back-and-forth like the old days, let’s say we agree to disagree


I’m ecstatic that Mario turned it around
 
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