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Ed Reed's in the HOF

Poptimus said:
I don't think Andre Johnson is borderline, I think he's nearly a lock. Edge and Reggie are borderline, I agree.

I think Devin definitely makes it in, too. He was the best ever at special teams, it's not really debatable.
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I think AJ80 is a lock and I think Wayne is a lock, too. Edge is iffy, imo, but there’s RBs in the hall w/ much less accomplishments than him.

Devin should no doubt be in and maybe he opens the door to a Don Bebe. The fact is Hester should’ve had more pro bowl appearances, but the NFL took away the specialist position. Hester also changed the way the ST position is played b/c teams would complain about him, that they had to either give The Bears short field position to kick it away from or risk him scoring a TD. That along should put him in, no less than 3 yrs on the ballot.

Side note, non Canes related, Alstott should be in as well.
 
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Alien said:
There’s always a first for anything and if enough high profile guys clamour for Hester he should get in imo. Being unique should also be a requirement for HOF IMO and Hester was definitely that 👍
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There is an extremely legitimate argument to be made that Hester changed the game. There really has never been anything like him, that I can think of, short of Gale Sayers(?).

I'm a nerd for 'Canes NFL stats, and I just learned a really good new one. Miami has two of the top five all time non-offensive TD's leaders in Hester and Reed. Granted, Reed is tied for fifth with six other guys, but still, great stat.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Johnson is not a certainty, but you’re reading it wrong, imo. He’s 3x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 2x led league in receiving yards, and 7x pro bowl. He was genuinely top 2 wr for a few years. If he had one more all pro or pro bowl, I’d say he was a lock. Or if he played for a better team.

Wayne was 1x first team all pro, 2x second team. 6 pro bowls, 1x receiving yards leader. The SB is nice but not enough. He is a credible candidate because of longevity and climbing the all time records lists.
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I don't disagree with this, at all. But you're coming at it from the standpoint of a practical observer of the NFL, not the people who vote for Hall of Famers. They value things a little differently, IMO. If you have to ask me, I think he gets in. But it's going to be a long wait. There's going to be a logjam at QB, there's already a few other eligible receivers deserving consideration, and then you've got Megatron, Fitzgerald, Bruce, Wayne, etc lined up. You get five modern-era players per year, meaning you can only vote in half the positions in one class, on average.

At the same time, these are the voters who put Terrell Davis in, when Edge is still not. So... who the f--- knows?
 
Poptimus said:
I didn't realize Wayne had the same yards and more TDs, but I guess my concern is that he was overshadowed by Marvin Harrison. If he's close to a lock, great. What are your thoughts on Wilfork? To me, he's a 5x Pro Bowler, 2x Super Bowl champion, and widely regarded as the best NT in the game for some time against the run. He won't have the sacks of some other DTs, but the guy was a clog who made it very difficult for other teams to run.
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Wilfork was the best DT in the game for six or seven years. He played in a scheme that didn't really allow him to get after the QB as much, but he was absolutely dominant at DT. To me, his real competition over his career was at end. I think he definitely makes it, but I'd give it a good few years.
 
YLCANE said:
Edge
Wayne
Dre
Wilfork
Hester
Gore

I say they all get in
In that order
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I would mostly agree with this, aside from moving Dre after Wilfork (and maybe even Hester), and putting three or four current or future #Canes before Gore, because we all know Frank is playing well into his 50's.

Also think there's a good shot Jimmy Johnson gets in eventually. And he's definitely a Cane.
 
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Edge, Andre, Reggie, Gore, Wilfork and Hester all should get in someday. All these guys were first team all pro at some point. Wayne and Wilfork only made that once, but they each have a superbowl. Andre was 1st team all pro 3 straight years, and 2nd team all pro 2 other times. I feel Edge will get in next year.
 
ChoadCane said:
Edge, Andre, Reggie, Gore, Wilfork and Hester all should get in someday. All these guys were first team all pro at some point. Wayne and Wilfork only made that once, but they each have a superbowl. Andre was 1st team all pro 3 straight years, and 2nd team all pro 2 other times. I feel Edge will get in next year.
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I'm friends with Edge...Dre and Reggie....All should get in.
 
ChoadCane said:
One pro bowl. 3 super bowl rings. Stats not that impressive. He was a little before my time. What did he do that was special?
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Maryland should be in the college hall of fame no doubt.... Pro.... I'm not so sure...... He was a force on those cowboy teams but he wasn't the man. He was solid his whole career. If he gets in that's cool, but if he doesn't I can understand that too
 
CashMoneyCane said:
I don't disagree with this, at all. But you're coming at it from the standpoint of a practical observer of the NFL, not the people who vote for Hall of Famers. They value things a little differently, IMO. If you have to ask me, I think he gets in. But it's going to be a long wait. There's going to be a logjam at QB, there's already a few other eligible receivers deserving consideration, and then you've got Megatron, Fitzgerald, Bruce, Wayne, etc lined up. You get five modern-era players per year, meaning you can only vote in half the positions in one class, on average.

At the same time, these are the voters who put Terrell Davis in, when Edge is still not. So... who the f--- knows?
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I am definitely not trying to predict biases in the voting. I at one point went and compared both Wayne and AJ against the ‘marginal’ WR members the HOF has left in recently. What the facts showed is that:

  • It the modern era, the only HOF WRs with as many all pro seasons as Andre Johnson are Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison
  • If you focus only on 1st team all pro seasons, the only ones at or above AJ are Rice, Owens, Harrison and Randy Moss
If you separate out the guys who have multiple SB titles, then Irvin and Monk get grouped differently, as do Swann and Stallworth. Rightly or wrongly, the HOF voters judged SBs more important there. Biggest question mark is Monk, imo, who had only 2 all pro selections in his career. Harrison and C. Carter also get grouped differently because of being atop the all time records at the time they retired (each top 3 in receptions and reception tds). (Harrison also had the all pro creds.)

The right comparison group then is T. Brown, J. Lofton and A. Reed. Reed has the worst creds of anyone in the group - 0x first team all pro, 3x second team, no SB titles. But I suspect he gets credit for 4 SB appearances, and it’s a Bills chit for a team that needed recognition. Maybe he’s an asterisk. T. Brown is 2x first team, 1x second team all pro, and no SB titles. Loften was 1x first team, 3x second team, no superbowls.

It is clear that as far as WRs go, Andre Johnson was top 2 in the league for an extended period (3x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 7x pro bowl), and very few other guys here can say that, and several here you can definitely say they weren’t. He’s clearly a more qualified candidate than Brown, Lofton and Reed. Wayne isn’t an interesting candidate on any one metric (1x first team, 2x second team all pro, 6x pro bowl), but his combination of 1 SB title along with longevity and hence records makes him credible.

———

AJ: 3x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 7x pro bowl
Wayne: 1x first team, 2x second team, 6x pro bowl

For comparison:

Rice: 10x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 13x pro bowl, 3 SB titles
Owens: 5x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro, 6x pro bowl
Harrison: 5x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro, 8x pro bowl, 1 SB title
T. Brown: 2x first team all pro, 1x second team all pro, 9x pro bowl
Irvin: 1x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 5x pro bowl, 3 SB titles
Loften: 1x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro, 8x pro bowl
A. Reed: 0x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro, 7x pro bowl
C. Carter: 2x first team all pro, 1x second team all pro, 8x pro bowl
Monk: 1x first team all pro, 1x second team all pro, 3x pro bowl, 3 SB titles
Swann: 1x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 3x pro bowl, 4 SB titles
Stallworth: 1x first team all pro, 2x second team all pro, 3x pro bowl, 4 SB titles
 
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Edge has already had 5 years of HOF eligibility and hasn't made it. That's not a good sign when it comes to who gets in. Does he deserve to be in? Sure. And if you guys remember pre-ACL tear Edgerrin James, he was one of the best RBs you ever saw. He still put up some **** good numbers post-ACL tear, but he wasn't quite the same back.
 
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