Due diligence on Tom Herman

[Sonny Long]

Yall dig deep as **** to counter our best candidate lmao

Not the best! Butch is the best! Herman just doesn't have HC experience.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

 

[Consigliere]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

There is no question that Houston under Levine was at best an 8-9 win team. That is obvious. Herman has elevated their play instantly.

 

[Consigliere]

My only worry is his very short experience as a HC. We will be taking risk. He could turn out to be a great hire or a bust.

The bolded part is anyone.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Good post, Consig. There's just one more part that worries me about his season at Houston. Greg Ward absolutely dominates that offense. If I had Greg Ward, I would also put up a lot of points. Herman didn't develop him or create a new offense or anything like that. Is Herman going to be a Gus Malzahn in the post-Cam Newton era?

A few things:

1. Greg Ward Jr was there last year. GWJ played last year. GWJ numbers are CLEARLY better this year. The kid is great but his play has been drastically elevated.

2. Herman has shown that he can do develop QBs before. Look at how many he went through last year at OSU. Look at how different OSU looks this year with the SAME PLAYERS. He has done well with QBs before (Chase Clement).

3. Herman may not have created a new offense but perhaps he is able to maximize the output he gets out of his players. Perhaps he puts them in the best position to succeed by adapting to their skill set. I think GWJ is a good example of that. I think last year at OSU were a good example out of that.

Most QBs with Ward's talent are better with each successive year. I'm just not convinced that Herman came in and changed a bunch of things to make him better. I've watched them a lot because Ward is my fantasy QB. He runs around and jukes people and leads the nation in rushing touchdowns. Does that translate into success with a guy like Kayaa?

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

Name them.

You aren't seeing Tom Herman showing up and creating a monster. I'm not seeing 21-17 the four previous years as "being in good shape" to where anyone could show up and start off undefeated.

 

[Sonny Long]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

There is no question that Houston under Levine was at best an 8-9 win team. That is obvious. Herman has elevated their play instantly.

How? Herman has not won 8 - 9 games at Houston.

 

[DiegoCane]

I dunno. I do know what he did at Ohio State. And I do know what he is doing at Houston.

Herman is a savage who would destroy the ACC and win a national title here.

I think Urban Meyer might have had a little more to do with OSU's offense than Herman.

And how do folks here feel about a Miami QB getting 15 rushing attempts per game?

Urban has and will never run the offense for his teams. He has never called plays and it isn't his specialty.

 

[Sonny Long]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

Name them.

You aren't seeing Tom Herman showing up and creating a monster. I'm not seeing 21-17 the four previous years as "being in good shape" to where anyone could show up and start off undefeated.

Winning game 1 is being undefeated.

 

[Sonny Long]

I dunno. I do know what he did at Ohio State. And I do know what he is doing at Houston.

Herman is a savage who would destroy the ACC and win a national title here.

I think Urban Meyer might have had a little more to do with OSU's offense than Herman.

And how do folks here feel about a Miami QB getting 15 rushing attempts per game?

Urban has and will never run the offense for his teams. He has never called plays and it isn't his specialty.

**** LIE! You Slurping Hard, Homey!

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Holy ****. Stop trogging up a thread with actual discussion.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Name them.

You aren't seeing Tom Herman showing up and creating a monster. I'm not seeing 21-17 the four previous years as "being in good shape" to where anyone could show up and start off undefeated.

Name the coaches who could beat 2-5 Tulane, 3-4 Tulsa, 1-6 SMU, 0-8 UCF, two FCS teams, and 3-4 Louisville? How much bandwidth do we have?

 

[Consigliere]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

I have addressed this already. But we're not playing "what if" we're evaluating his actual tenure.

 

[Consigliere]

Good post, Consig. There's just one more part that worries me about his season at Houston. Greg Ward absolutely dominates that offense. If I had Greg Ward, I would also put up a lot of points. Herman didn't develop him or create a new offense or anything like that. Is Herman going to be a Gus Malzahn in the post-Cam Newton era?

A few things:

1. Greg Ward Jr was there last year. GWJ played last year. GWJ numbers are CLEARLY better this year. The kid is great but his play has been drastically elevated.

2. Herman has shown that he can do develop QBs before. Look at how many he went through last year at OSU. Look at how different OSU looks this year with the SAME PLAYERS. He has done well with QBs before (Chase Clement).

3. Herman may not have created a new offense but perhaps he is able to maximize the output he gets out of his players. Perhaps he puts them in the best position to succeed by adapting to their skill set. I think GWJ is a good example of that. I think last year at OSU were a good example out of that.

Most QBs with Ward's talent are better with each successive year. I'm just not convinced that Herman came in and changed a bunch of things to make him better. I've watched them a lot because Ward is my fantasy QB. He runs around and jukes people and leads the nation in rushing touchdowns. Does that translate into success with a guy like Kayaa?

Yes but Herman is the coach and the play is MUCH better. He also has a track record of doing it.

Does it translate to a guy like Kaaya? No. But Kaaya is a different type of QB. Does that mean he can't have success with that type of QB?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I have addressed this already. But we're not playing "what if" we're evaluating his actual tenure.

As I showed a few posts above, his tenure hasn't seen a single challenge yet.

 

[Sonny Long]

Name them.

You aren't seeing Tom Herman showing up and creating a monster. I'm not seeing 21-17 the four previous years as "being in good shape" to where anyone could show up and start off undefeated.

Name the coaches who could beat 2-5 Tulane, 3-4 Tulsa, 1-6 SMU, 0-8 UCF, two FCS teams, and 3-4 Louisville? How much bandwidth do we have?

Even Alfraud Folden could beat those teams!

 

[Consigliere]

Name them.

You aren't seeing Tom Herman showing up and creating a monster. I'm not seeing 21-17 the four previous years as "being in good shape" to where anyone could show up and start off undefeated.

Name the coaches who could beat 2-5 Tulane, 3-4 Tulsa, 1-6 SMU, 0-8 UCF, two FCS teams, and 3-4 Louisville? How much bandwidth do we have?

Now we're creating hypothetical science experiments.

He plays Vandy this week. If he beats two P5 teams, that is something. Sub P5 aren't supposed to do that.

 

[Sonny Long]

Good post, Consig. There's just one more part that worries me about his season at Houston. Greg Ward absolutely dominates that offense. If I had Greg Ward, I would also put up a lot of points. Herman didn't develop him or create a new offense or anything like that. Is Herman going to be a Gus Malzahn in the post-Cam Newton era?

A few things:

1. Greg Ward Jr was there last year. GWJ played last year. GWJ numbers are CLEARLY better this year. The kid is great but his play has been drastically elevated.

2. Herman has shown that he can do develop QBs before. Look at how many he went through last year at OSU. Look at how different OSU looks this year with the SAME PLAYERS. He has done well with QBs before (Chase Clement).

3. Herman may not have created a new offense but perhaps he is able to maximize the output he gets out of his players. Perhaps he puts them in the best position to succeed by adapting to their skill set. I think GWJ is a good example of that. I think last year at OSU were a good example out of that.

Most QBs with Ward's talent are better with each successive year. I'm just not convinced that Herman came in and changed a bunch of things to make him better. I've watched them a lot because Ward is my fantasy QB. He runs around and jukes people and leads the nation in rushing touchdowns. Does that translate into success with a guy like Kayaa?

Yes but Herman is the coach and the play is MUCH better. He also has a track record of doing it.

Does it translate to a guy like Kaaya? No. But Kaaya is a different type of QB. Does that mean he can't have success with that type of QB?

Quit. Timing is just bad. Herman is gonna have to wait.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Yes but Herman is the coach and the play is MUCH better. He also has a track record of doing it.

Does it translate to a guy like Kaaya? No. But Kaaya is a different type of QB. Does that mean he can't have success with that type of QB?

Is the play really THAT much better? There is more than one kind of 7-0.

Your last sentence is scary. Wouldn't we want evidence that a guy has a certain skill before handing him the keys? His QB right now runs around and scores by himself.

 

[MIATL]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

Then, you clearly must be "all in" on Justin Fuente, right?

He showed up to a dumpster fire; built them to a 10 win team, beat BYU in a bowl game, and has them undefeated this season. All within 4 seasons ... And as a 1st time HC.

So, is your knock against Herman because you are a "Fuente guy", or are you just anti-any guy not named Butch Davis?