Due diligence on Tom Herman

[Jaromir Jagr]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

 

[CanesAreAble]

My only concern with Herman is using the QB in the running game is a key component of his offense. At the end of the day, it's not a dealbreaker, but we have two more years with Kaaya. I'd like to think Herman can adapt to Kaaya until he finds himself a proper dual-threat successor.

I actually think going forward post-Kaaya that would be a huge plus for South Florida QB/ATH types.

I don't disagree, but I don't want to waste two years of Kaaya. He's the real deal.

 

[Notsince1985]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

He turned a mediocre QB into one putting up great numbers against the same competition he faced last year, while beating all of the teams, some of which they couldn't beat last year.

 

[CanesAreAble]

This article contains an audio interview with Herman. He talks about his philosophy about building a program, hiring assistants, etc...

Pretty good listen:

How Tom Herman's Houston unleashes underdog speed - SBNation.com

 

[Consigliere]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

Vandy has a good D (13th Scoring D/22nd Total D). If they dominate a P5 team, does that change anything for you?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He turned a mediocre QB into one putting up great numbers against the same competition he faced last year, while beating all of the teams, some of which they couldn't beat last year.

I said it before in this thread: let's go back and look at the list of guys who showed up somewhere and did it "better than the last guy". Many of those guys are no longer employed.

 

[DiegoCane]

Urban has similar thing going. He brings his offense into new conference and tear it up for a few years. Then the other teams adjust and he has to move on to new place. He will go the ND next. Gimmicks are always like that. Urban is hack of a coach but only with "his" system. That system is not Miami DNA. We just fired a coach who wanted to practice genetic engineering; do we want another? With our WRs, it is better for WB to stand that extra second in the pocket while they get open. Also, with our RBs why have your QB recruiting determined by 40 times. Why have the formula that ruled football, just use it with right coach. A running QB is another DNA mismatch.

Gimmicks don't win 3 national championships

You have to be incredibly dense to believe that you can gimmick your way to those types of wins.

People are still using the " gimmick" title ? Lmao.

That offense is straight up smash mouth , physical football. It's just in spread formations , which makes it almost impossible to stop. Passing windows are wide open from the defense concentrating on the run. If the qb happens to be dual threat the defense is really f'd.

This. Do people even watch theses teams play? Or do you see a spread offense and says it's a gimmick? And what is Miami DNA? Most these kids grow up playing in the spread offense.

That gimmick offense shoved the ball down Alabamas throat and made them quit. 280 yards rushing, 500+ total. Ran for 300 bs Oregon in the NC.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

Vandy has a good D (13th Scoring D/22nd Total D). If they dominate a P5 team, does that change anything for you?

I would say yes, if they go in and move it at will against Vandy, that would be equally as impressive as what they did against Louisville. I would think that they need to get Ayers involved to keep the offense multi-dimensional.

 

[Cane2]

On the surface, I love this guy. He's my top choice. But on the surface Al Golden looked great too. It required more than a cursory review to uncover Golden's red flags.

With a quick review Herman looks great because:

1. He seems to have a real swagger about him. The kind of guy who wants to run up the score.
2. OSU offense looked awesome under him.
3. 7-0 first year at Houston.

Digging a little deeper, the first red flag I've found is this:

"Herman took his spread know-how and Texas ties to Iowa State, where his career almost stagnated. After improving Iowa State's Offensive S&P+ rank from 105th in 2008 to 42nd in 2009, the Cyclone offense crashed to 83rd in 2009 and 101st in 2010. Meyer plucked Herman from the wreckage, and they combined to guide the power spread offense that just won a national championship."

Why did his offense go backwards and get worse for two consecutive years after improving? Obviously Urban felt good enough about the guy to hire him despite the setback so that's a positive. But I'd still like to know what the **** happened.

Basically, Herman needed a more experienced Urban Meyer to tweak & improve while contributing major dibs into Herman's system. Meyer wanted his system, but knew Herman would be the best at thinking like Urban and following it with little supervision. All the while Meyer eliminated the flaws from Herman system....but Meyer isn't coming with Herman, so...?

Does Herman have experience picking the best ***'ts on both Offense and Defense? Can we afford to pay $1M+ with Herman as the next coach?

 

[Sonny Long]

Like I said: weird arguments

It's not weird at all. Do we need to go through the "Flavor of the Month" coaches that have plagued Miami message boards over the years? All I'm saying is that we might look back in five years and wonder who the **** thought this guy was a good coach if we're going to praise him because of one 7-0 start in which he had the better team seven times. Remember, he didn't jump in and take over North Texas here. Houston has a ton of returning experience and was bound to have a good season.

So basically Tony Levine would have had Houston looking the same right now? What are you trying to argue here?

I'm arguing that a lot of guys would have Houston at 6-1 or 7-0 right now. They have a one man show running the offense, and their program has been in good shape for several years. I'm just not seeing that Tom Herman showed up and created a monster out of nothing.

Then, you clearly must be "all in" on Justin Fuente, right?

He showed up to a dumpster fire; built them to a 10 win team, beat BYU in a bowl game, and has them undefeated this season. All within 4 seasons ... And as a 1st time HC.

So, is your knock against Herman because you are a "Fuente guy", or are you just anti-any guy not named Butch Davis?

I am a Butch guy, but Fuente is more proven than Herman.

 

[DiegoCane]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

Vandy has a good D (13th Scoring D/22nd Total D). If they dominate a P5 team, does that change anything for you?

I would say yes, if they go in and move it at will against Vandy, that would be equally as impressive as what they did against Louisville. I would think that they need to get Ayers involved to keep the offense multi-dimensional.

There extremely balanced already. Don't see why that would change vs Vandy.

 

[Consigliere]

The guy is 40 years old and he has done what he has done. He is not done learning but he may have a lot more. The reason you take Herman is because you think he is going to be the guy. You're satisfied with the track record and think he can replicate that at Miami.

Is there risk involved? Absolutely.

But let me say this, someone is going to take Herman (this year or next year). That program is going to be much better than Houston. Do we at Miami want to be the ones that take the risk?

Herman isn't my top choice but he would be on my top 3-5. If we want a young guy with successful HC experience then Herman's fits those wants.

 

[Consigliere]

I like him, never said he was our guy, but just punching little holes in your arguments

Being able to beat Tulane and having a QB who throws for 247 yards per game against some of the worst defenses known to man isn't really punching holes in any argument.

Vandy has a good D (13th Scoring D/22nd Total D). If they dominate a P5 team, does that change anything for you?

I would say yes, if they go in and move it at will against Vandy, that would be equally as impressive as what they did against Louisville. I would think that they need to get Ayers involved to keep the offense multi-dimensional.

Let's see.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

There extremely balanced already. Don't see why that would change vs Vandy.

What I meant was that Ward probably won't be able to run it around by himself the way he does against SMU and Tulane.

 

[Loafers]

Art briles at Houston
7-5
3-8
6-6
9-3
8-4

A anyone want to hire him after that. . Stop just looking at records. Jimmy had an average record at ok ie St. Saban through 4 yrs at msu was 3games over 500 0-3in bowl. Games.

 

[Dingaan1828]

Gotta say this is one of the more interesting threads in about 3 years. Who knew the AAC schedule would be in the spotlight for us?

 

[Notsince1985]

Briles and Sumlin also coached Houston when they were in Conference USA, not the AAC

 

[Canemang]

Yall dig deep as **** to counter our best candidate lmao

Not the best! Butch is the best! Herman just doesn't have HC experience.

Neither did Butch Davis in 1995

 

[Big Sky Cane]

I am actually glad that people are properly vetting these candidates because I don't believe our BOTs will do the same as they already hired Chuck Nienas for help.

Comparing him to Golden: I understand the concern. People don't want to get burned again by a coach coming from inferior competition and having poor results at Miami. What Golden taught us (some of us) is that you need to find someone that not only elevates the program but dominates the competition at that level. Golden never won the conference and he certainly never dominated it. In fact, he regressed in conference in year 5. One other thing you look for is when given the chance how did they perform against better competition (i.e. P5 teams). Golden's best two years (2009-2010), he beat 1 BCS team (Conn 8-5). In fact he lost to FCS Villanova at home.

In 2009, he played UCLA (7-6) and Penn State (11-2).
In 2010, he played UConn (8-5) and Penn State (7-5).

Combined records 33-18
Combined margin of victory/defeat: -9, -25, +14 and -9 = Average Loss of 7.25
Combined record: 1-3 [If you include all 5 seasons, he was 1-12 against BCS teams]

Golden also lost the only bowl game he ever played in at Temple

So to review:

1. How did he perform in conference? Did he dominate? Did he win the conference?

=> Golden never won the conference, he had a 20-12 and nothing special

2. How did he perform against better competition?

=> 1-12 Overall, 1-3 during 2009-10 and an average loss of 7.25 PG

3. How did he do in the post season?

=> 0-1

It is easy to see that Golden wasn't prepared for a program like Miami.

where did you read that? I just did a search and couldn't confirm. If so.....**** me.

 

[Consigliere]

Art briles at Houston
7-5
3-8
6-6
9-3
8-4

A anyone want to hire him after that. . Stop just looking at records. Jimmy had an average record at ok ie St. Saban through 4 yrs at msu was 3games over 500 0-3in bowl. Games.

Let me say a few things on Art Briles.

1. Does anyone know who the coach before Art Briles was at Baylor? His name was Guy Morriss. He was awful and so was Baylor. He went 18-40 (7-33) Before Morriss it was the KEVIN STEELE. He went 9-36 (1-31).

2. The coach of Houston before At Briles was Dana Dimel went 8-26 (5-17). Houston was also in bad shape.

3. Art Briles was able to do amazing things at Houston. He won the conference, 10 games and took them out of the bottom of the conference. Baylor made an excellent move hiring him. Baylor was utter trash and they jumped on a pretty good coach.