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Domino Effect (Conversation Thread)

Martycane said:
Schiano would have been a good pick. He did an incredible job at Rutgers, almost making it nationally relevant. Look at what happened to Rutgers after he left. He failed in the pros but so did Butch, Saban, etc...Never understood the hatred for him on this board...
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IIRC Schiano was rumored to actually be the guy had Richt not been fired at UGA. That would not have been a bad choice IMO.
 
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MainLineCane said:
2002 was the 2nd year since Butch had left us. After winning the Championship in 2001, that 2002 last minute Robbery took a lot out of us.

It certainly ruined our feeling of invincibility

Still in 2003 we went 11-2 and finished 5th in the AP and beat FSU a second time in the Orange Bowl,
  • 9-3 in 2004 beating UF 27-10 in the Peach,
  • 9-3 in 2005 losing to LSU 40-3 in the Peach,
  • before falling to 7-6 in 2006
We were still relevant until we were thrashed by LSU. That is the loss that sent us into a death spiral and still to this day its one of the lowest feelings I've ever had as a Cane
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Truth. That’s why I’ve always felt since that moment, we lost our mystique. We must thrash LSU to swing the mojo back in the right direction...
 
NYCCANE said:
I sometimes wonder who was truly the worst/most destructive of Coker, Shannon, and Golden. They all damaged the program in their own special way. If only Butch had stayed....
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They all had their issues, but solely based on the lack of experience I have to say Shannon, because he had never been the top guy as a result a lot of things were not in place that you would assume would have been. He had no idea how to run a program.
KevinCaneFace said:
I agree but Butch may have embraced Nevin to such a degree we wouldn’t have a football team any more.
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I don't doubt that for a minute Butch is shady as ****, he was when he was at Miami and continued to be at UNC.
 
MainLineCane said:
2002 was the 2nd year since Butch had left us without a doubt things would have been different had he stayed.
BUT After winning the Championship in 2001, that 2002 last minute Robbery took a lot out of us.

It certainly ruined our feeling of invincibility

Still in 2003 we went 11-2 and finished 5th in the AP and beat FSU a second time in the Orange Bowl,
  • 9-3 in 2004 beating UF 27-10 in the Peach,
  • 9-3 in 2005 losing to LSU 40-3 in the Peach,
  • before falling to 7-6 in 2006
We were still relevant until we were thrashed by LSU 40-3. That is the loss that sent us into a death spiral ....and to this day its still one of the lowest feelings I've EVER had as a Cane
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It's simple.

We started running out of Butch Davis players.
 
NYCCANE said:
I sometimes wonder who was truly the worst/most destructive of Coker, Shannon, and Golden. They all damaged the program in their own special way. If only Butch had stayed....
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For me its Coker tbh. Looking back, dare I say it, Shannon and Golden did some ok things. At the time it was awful bc they couldn't win. But Shannon did clean up the free for all no accountability nonsense that Coker created, and Golden did manage to make it through the Shapiro/NCAA b.s.. Coker self destructed pretty much everything the program created from both the 80/90s and 00s teams. (The 02 game certainly didn't help.) I don't hate him though, he did win #5, he just wasn't qualified to be HC. But it went downhill FAST under him.
 
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amanan28 said:
Yeah but what if right? I mean that 2008 class just by rankings alone was ridiculous. All the top players from the #1 HS in the country and then some. What could have been...
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That class being ranked number #1 had a lot to do with our big numbers. No doubt we signed some crazy studs in that class but it was real top heavy. A bunch of meh second half of that class. Unlike last year where everyone is a stud.
 
Also, the Fiesta bowl didn’t have anything to do with our demise. It was all the admin failing us and to a large extent B Berlin not being as good as advertised. With some decent QB play, we play in the title game against OU and probably win. After that it would have went down hill anyway you cut it. Coker wasn’t capable of doing ****.
 
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QuatroCane said:
IIRC Schiano was rumored to actually be the guy had Richt not been fired at UGA. That would not have been a bad choice IMO.
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Schiano is notorious for being a prick. He is a good x and o coach, but he would not be able to land the elite recruits (maybe a couple, but definitely not clean up south Florida). Basically a rich man's Coach Kool. As I said when Richt was hired, you will see the payoff in year 4-5 because he is a master of the recruiting game (make rounds in Pop Warner, etc). Takes a few years to build that pipeline, especially since the previous staffs destroyed it. Coker proved that a Miami team filled with elite talent can win championships with a dunce of a head coach.

Richt is a better recruiter than Butch (with the recruiting services you rarely find hidden gems so have to go head to head with the Sabans) AND is a competent head coach. The only thing that can hold Miami back from winning more rings is Richt himself. Is he willing to change his system to suit the talent or will he insist a la Golden? I think he should switch from RPO to a Lincoln Riley style Air Raid - no team would have a chance of slowing Miami down. Will he show loyalty to Diaz like Donofrio or realize that he needs a better DC? If Richt can/is willing to adapt he wins MULTIPLE championships here.
 
LSU in the bowl game was the tipping point. That’s when everyone saw the team was weak and we were headed the wrong direction.

Not sure winning the national title in 2002 changes anything. We relied too much on recruiting rankings and the country club lifestyle allowed players to get comfortable and not think they had to work for their positions. Kids lost that dog that we have been searching for over the last 15 years. Feel like we have finally started to build depth and competition back to the point where guys are going to be fighting to stay on the field because they don’t want to lose their job.
 
Im so dissapointed at myself that I got excited and was hopeful when the Golden hire was hyped up to us the fans. I really thought we had found a sleeper. Turns out it was the worst coach we could've hired that year. Anyone else got juked? Looking back at it there was no chance a guy with his resume would be successful in turning around a program like Miami in the shape it was.
 
Coker, the worst coach ever to win a national title... and the guy nearly won two

Thats how loaded and good those squads were..
 
TimeB0mb said:
Schiano is notorious for being a prick. He is a good x and o coach, but he would not be able to land the elite recruits (maybe a couple, but definitely not clean up south Florida). Basically a rich man's Coach Kool. As I said when Richt was hired, you will see the payoff in year 4-5 because he is a master of the recruiting game (make rounds in Pop Warner, etc). Takes a few years to build that pipeline, especially since the previous staffs destroyed it. Coker proved that a Miami team filled with elite talent can win championships with a dunce of a head coach.

Richt is a better recruiter than Butch (with the recruiting services you rarely find hidden gems so have to go head to head with the Sabans) AND is a competent head coach. The only thing that can hold Miami back from winning more rings is Richt himself. Is he willing to change his system to suit the talent or will he insist a la Golden? I think he should switch from RPO to a Lincoln Riley style Air Raid - no team would have a chance of slowing Miami down. Will he show loyalty to Diaz like Donofrio or realize that he needs a better DC? If Richt can/is willing to adapt he wins MULTIPLE championships here.
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I’ll challenge your statement about Butch for a second:

If Butch stays, no doubt Miami cleans up in the 2000’s. It’ll be the 80’s all over again. Butch wouldn’t need to recruit; all he would have to do is sit down and say “Hi, I’m Butch Davis of the defending National Champions, and I get players to the league making 1st round money.” Kids would be cut throating their way here.
 
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QuatroCane said:
IIRC Schiano was rumored to actually be the guy had Richt not been fired at UGA. That would not have been a bad choice IMO.
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A little off subject, but they were literally rioting in the streets @ UTK when they offered Shiano the HC job there because of his supposed - and unfounded - knowledge of the perversion going on @ pedostate.
 
423Hurricane said:
A little off subject, but they were literally rioting in the streets @ UTK when they offered Shiano the HC job there because of his supposed - and unfounded - knowledge of the perversion going on @ pedostate.
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They just didn’t want Shiano because they really believed they could get Gruden. The fans clinged to made up crap about Pedo St. I wouldn’t want Shiano either but that was messed up what they did
 
Hate to rain on the "Butch was a Gawd" parade BUT I'll take the hit.

I lived thru the Butch coaching period and recall that he left much to be desired as a game day coach. Great recruiter unquestioned and done under some extreme circumstances without a doubt, but as a gameday coach Meh!!

IF there were any Miami coach that I'd play "woulda, coulda, shoulda" with, in my mind , that would unquestionably be our greatest HOF Coach Howard Schnellenberger. He was truly legendary. He started the "State of Miami" recruiting theme and instilled the "Refuse to Lose" play ethic that served us so well over the years. Before him we never knew the heights we could rise to and most importantly, he continued his program development by taking a invisible Louisville program into a force, and after that turning FAU into a winner. He was truly a coach who could turn any program into a winner.

After Schnelly, I put the legendary Jimmy Johnson, who proved his Championship coaching chops both here and at Dallas. Some may not recall that Dallas was going thru a losing spell before JJ.

While I liked Butch a lot, and was glad he was here when he was, I realized his limitations as a great coach as he completely failed to meet his follow up challenges at Cleveland and at UNC. We'll see how he does at FIU. Maybe there he can get his mojo back.

So sure if we had to play "What IF" with any Miami coaches, ...What IF regrets go a lot further with me, if we're looking at us possibly repeatedly winning N.C.'s, they go a lot further with our actual championship winning coaches Schnelly or Johnson, both of whom left us too soon. Now if we'd stayed under either of those two, Bama would be known as just another stepping stone on our way to an unending wave of Championships.
 
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MainLineCane said:
2002 was the 2nd year since Butch had left us without a doubt things would have been different had he stayed.
BUT After winning the Championship in 2001, that 2002 last minute Robbery took a lot out of us.

It certainly ruined our feeling of invincibility

Still in 2003 we went 11-2 and finished 5th in the AP and beat FSU a second time in the Orange Bowl,
  • 9-3 in 2004 beating UF 27-10 in the Peach,
  • 9-3 in 2005 losing to LSU 40-3 in the Peach,
  • before falling to 7-6 in 2006
We were still relevant until we were thrashed by LSU 40-3. That is the loss that sent us into a death spiral ....and to this day its still one of the lowest feelings I've EVER had as a Cane
Click to expand...
Payback against LSU is coming
 
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