Does it generally take more than 1 year to turn around a sinking program?

[RVACane]

Kill this troll!

He’s been under suspicion before. It’s a good debate for the thread.

I’ve been on an Adam and the Ants binge lately because of you. Lol

 

[TheEye]

No. Let’s not forget Toledo. Diaz was left with a talented roster on both sides of the ball. Year 1 Diaz wins 6 and Saban wins 9. End of comparison.

 

[PredaCane]

Again another slapdick bringing up Saban and his first year struggles. Manny will never come close to what Saban and Dabo have done.

I think he should've done much better too but in his defense he'll never come close to the bags at those coaches' disposal either.

 

[Brains]

Manny needed more time to prepare for UNC.

Manny needed more time to prepare for VT.

Manny needed more time to prepare for FIU.

Manny needs more time to turn this program around.

Get ******* lost you clueless apologists.

 

[Ethnicsands]

That's what you call "false inference".....

What i'm pointing out is simply this: even coaches destined to become the GOAT HC of CFB had struggles to develop their craft...

NOT ONE HC in CFB history ever started with major winning records immediately when they became HC....

IF it took Saban 5 years to learn how to develop at winning program.... why is Diaz or ANY coach held to a different standard?

Really? You write this falsehood on this board and expect what, exactly?\

 

[MotoSniper]

Absolutely no excuse for Manny not going AT LEAST 9-3 this season. Sure, 11-1 was overly ambitious based on our track record as of late, but 9-3 with wins against GT, FIU, Duke should not have been overly demanding by us fans. I have never seen a coach and team do less with more in my life across any sport.

Sad thing is, the statement "Miami should never lose to X Team" used to hold so much weight back in the day. Like when Miami lost to GT in 2005 essentially ending our national championship chances. I was extremely disgusted and shocked at the loss since we had a very talented team and were much better than GT that year. We had set a precedence of always beating the teams that we should. Fast forward to present day, the GT and FIU losses are disgusting just the same, but I can't honestly say that with the current state of the program, UM should never lose to these teams. The fact that most of us feel that LT is going to whoop us in the bowl game blows my mind, but I don't necessarily disagree and it wouldn't surprise me...**** sad

 

[4thdown]

Define sinking?

Bc Urban came in and turned OSU around immediately, and honestly, was robbed of a championship bc of a bowl ban.

To be fair to Manny, I’m sure that Jim Tressel left behind a much more talented roster than Mark Richt did.

The previous OSU team wasn’t good because it was emotionally hard after the preseason scandal where Tressel got fired. Acting like Meyer took over a typical 6-7 team at OSU is pretty absurd.

 

[4thdown]

Absolutely no excuse for Manny not going AT LEAST 9-3 this season. Sure, 11-1 was overly ambitious based on our track record as of late, but 9-3 with wins against GT, FIU, Duke should not have been overly demanding by us fans. I have never seen a coach and team do less with more in my life across any sport.

Sad thing is, the statement "Miami should never lose to X Team" used to hold so much weight back in the day. Like when Miami lost to GT in 2005 essentially ending our national championship chances. I was extremely disgusted and shocked at the loss since we had a very talented team and were much better than GT that year. We had set a precedence of always beating the teams that we should. Fast forward to present day, the GT and FIU losses are disgusting just the same, but I can't honestly say that with the current state of the program, UM should never lose to these teams. The fact that most of us feel that LT is going to whoop us in the bowl game blows my mind, but I don't necessarily disagree and it wouldn't surprise me...**** sad

That GT team went 7-5. Not that they were particularly good, but they weren’t the trash that this year’s GT team is.

 

[MotoSniper]

That GT team went 7-5. Not that they were particularly good, but they weren’t the trash that this year’s GT team is.

Totally agree, and even more to the point that back then, losing to a 7-5 GT team was unacceptable and a bit shocking...those times are long gone.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

The author is well respected. He explained his methodology in detail, including the weighting by year. He describes how he works on improving the formula every season. There is no apparent bias in the formula, nothing like adding a half star for this conference and subtracting from another.

You didn't like the bottom line, so you relied instead on a simplistic term like blue chip. That is so typical of the ignorant logic around here. You want Miami to be adding a 1 to the blue chip category time after time, while other ACC Coastal programs are adding 0.

That type of moronic thinking is what lends to the annual stupidity of looking at the schedule and proclaiming one birthrighted victory after another. We are 1 and they are 0. What could possibly go wrong? Your 34/20 and 34/15 ratios are fully representative of the braindead perspective. Posters around here including many moderators and administrators prefer to believe that Miami has twice as much talent as the division rivals.

Meanwhile it is a fractional advantage. The numerical scouting reports like Ourlads that break it down to the hundredth of a point often have Miami players at 3.63 range while a North Carolina player might be 3.42. I have mentioned that many times because it is glaring. It falls in line with those recruiting rankings per year. The 3.63 player might be drafted 6th round while the 3.42 is undrafted free agent. That allows posters who rely on NFL numbers to similarly use the 1 vs 0 garbage...drafted vs. undrafted.

Nobody wants to accept how modest and therefore fragile the advantage is. The conference results of 15 seasons scream that it is fractional. Otherwise it would be the greatest outlier of all time if the talent level consistently dictated one direction while the results consistently pointed in another direction.

The sample size is more than sufficient. We have no claim and no margin for error at #16 recruiting level. If we remain there, then the next coach will quickly be savaged here and name whined toward a banner. As I've emphasized, #16 to #8 is worth a full touchdown per game. That turns the close defeats into victories.

The author is not a respected writer. Just because he writes out his logic, does not make it correct.

Saying we have double the blue chips, is not a small difference. You know who has double the blue chips of us? Bama. The difference between Bama and Miami is massive.

 

[supersaiyanshel]

To be fair to Manny, I’m sure that Jim Tressel left behind a much more talented roster than Mark Richt did.

The previous OSU team wasn’t good because it was emotionally hard after the preseason scandal where Tressel got fired. Acting like Meyer took over a typical 6-7 team at OSU is pretty absurd.

And acting like Manny took over a 6-6 team capable of losing to FIU is also absurd. Richt resigned a tear removed from winning the Coastal. This wasnt a rebuild.

That Meyer OSU team went undefeated w a guy who they eventually punted to the WR room at Qb..

 

[4thdown]

And acting like Manny took over a 6-6 team capable of losing to FIU is also absurd. Richt resigned. This wasnt a rebuild.

That Meyer OSU team went undefeated w a guy who they eventually punted to the WR room at Qb..

3 of the 6 losses were inexcusable. And Manny’s responsible for half the roster.

Although I have a suspicion that Richt resigned in part because he didn’t think this team was very talented.

 

[VaCanesFan88]

How long does it take to turn around a program that has been sunken for more then 10 years with the worst coaching staff in history of NCAA.

 

[Deleted member 23667]

Just asking for a friend....

Because it seems the belief system at CIS is that unless you turn a sinking program around in 8 months, you are automatically a **** coach who needs to be fired immediately...

I've posted this several times and NOT ONE DIAZ HATER had the NUTS to address it honestly with me:

Nick Saban's HC coaching career started this way:

View attachment 105720

Forget the 1990 Toledo because he took over a "loaded" and previously well coached team for that conference.

Michigan State is where you see the history of a "young HC" taking over a pathetic program. It took him FIVE years to recruit, make coaching adjustments and improve his craft before he achieved a winning record.

Now let's look at his time at LSU:

View attachment 105721

Year 1 was ok...

Year 2 looks great-- but he lost a bunch of seniors to the draft in 2001 (CANES WIN BIG that year anyways)

Year 3--- HOLY ****-- the CIS haters would have been flying "FIRE SABAN" banners for an 8-5 yr for sure... But this is what happens when you lose experienced seniors to the draft...

Reality and true history of Nick Saban -- i hate the guy... but you can't deny he's the best HC in the modern era of CFB.

If Saban needed FIVE years to establish his FIRST winning season at Michigan State... to eventually become the GOAT of CFB HC's...

How is it that Diaz needs to be fired in his FIRST year at Miami?

Don't throw your mindless hate.... give me some LOGICAL arguments based on some FACTS.

If you hate Diaz, show my with some facts how that position is justified against the example of Nick Saban in his first 5 years at a young HC...

Is your friend Manny Diaz? Lol. Seriously though, we've been hearing the same garbage for 15 years.

You aren't even comparing apples to oranges. Look below at MSU's record that year. Do you see any losses to a clearly inferior school like FIU??? A school that wishes it had the recruits we have and with a HC that earns less then our good for nothing OC!

MSU's worst losses in 95 were to Wisconsin and Purdue (a tie is basically a loss IMO)--two teams in the same conference with comparable strengths and recruiting patterns. But they also beat Lloyd Carr's Wolverines, an in-state rival who won a natty 2 years later.

And MSU is not located in arguably the most fertile recruiting ground in the nation at a school that no matter what is almost always in the top 3 in recruiting in their conference.

Clearly Saban was on a different level than Diaz from day 1.

1995-Michigan State (Big Ten)​
9/9​	vs.	Nebraska (12-0)	L	10​	50​
9/16​	@	Louisville (7-4)	W	30​	7​
9/23​	@	*Purdue (4-6-1)	T	35​	35​
9/30​	vs.	Boston College (4-8)	W	25​	21​
10/7​	vs.	*Iowa (8-4)	L	7​	21​
10/14​	@	*Illinois (5-5-1)	W	27​	21​
10/21​	vs.	*Minnesota (3-8)	W	34​	31​
10/28​	@	*Wisconsin (4-5-2)	L	14​	45​
11/4​	vs.	*Michigan (9-4)	W	28​	25​
11/11​	@	*Indiana (2-9)	W	31​	13​
11/25​	vs.	*Penn State (9-3)	L	20​	24​
12/29​	vs.	Louisiana State (7-4-1)	L	26​	45​	@ Shreveport, LA	Independence Bowl
	6-5-1​		287	338

 

[Antcane]

Is your friend Manny Diaz? Lol. Seriously though, we've been hearing the same garbage for 15 years.

You aren't even comparing apples to oranges. Look below at MSU's record that year. Do you see any losses to a clearly inferior school like FIU??? A school that wishes it had the recruits we have and with a HC that earns less then our good for nothing OC!

MSU's worst losses in 95 were to Wisconsin and Purdue (a tie is basically a loss IMO)--two teams in the same conference with comparable strengths and recruiting patterns. But they also beat Lloyd Carr's Wolverines, an in-state rival who won a natty 2 years later.

And MSU is not located in arguably the most fertile recruiting ground in the nation at a school that no matter what is almost always in the top 3 in recruiting in their conference.

Clearly Saban was on a different level than Diaz from day 1.

1995-Michigan State (Big Ten)​
9/9​	vs.	Nebraska (12-0)	L	10​	50​
9/16​	@	Louisville (7-4)	W	30​	7​
9/23​	@	*Purdue (4-6-1)	T	35​	35​
9/30​	vs.	Boston College (4-8)	W	25​	21​
10/7​	vs.	*Iowa (8-4)	L	7​	21​
10/14​	@	*Illinois (5-5-1)	W	27​	21​
10/21​	vs.	*Minnesota (3-8)	W	34​	31​
10/28​	@	*Wisconsin (4-5-2)	L	14​	45​
11/4​	vs.	*Michigan (9-4)	W	28​	25​
11/11​	@	*Indiana (2-9)	W	31​	13​
11/25​	vs.	*Penn State (9-3)	L	20​	24​
12/29​	vs.	Louisiana State (7-4-1)	L	26​	45​	@ Shreveport, LA	Independence Bowl
	6-5-1​		287	338

There's your facts OP and he didn't lose to anyone with a losing record and actually upset someone in
Michigan and it was against Bo so.......

 

[Twhizman]

A quick turnaround depends A lot on talent that's on the team and how coaches use teams strengths to over shadow the weaknesses.our problem has been below par oline production.it's been a problem last several years and this position the oline is not a quick turnaround.until that is fixed we will struggle to win the coastal.

 

[Silver King]

It's been 15 years and we haven't turned the stinking program around - nothing to show but half a conference title, and running off the coach who got us that.

 

[Snoopzel]

Just asking for a friend....

Because it seems the belief system at CIS is that unless you turn a sinking program around in 8 months, you are automatically a **** coach who needs to be fired immediately...

I've posted this several times and NOT ONE DIAZ HATER had the NUTS to address it honestly with me:

Nick Saban's HC coaching career started this way:

View attachment 105720

Forget the 1990 Toledo because he took over a "loaded" and previously well coached team for that conference.

Michigan State is where you see the history of a "young HC" taking over a pathetic program. It took him FIVE years to recruit, make coaching adjustments and improve his craft before he achieved a winning record.

Now let's look at his time at LSU:

View attachment 105721

Year 1 was ok...

Year 2 looks great-- but he lost a bunch of seniors to the draft in 2001 (CANES WIN BIG that year anyways)

Year 3--- HOLY ****-- the CIS haters would have been flying "FIRE SABAN" banners for an 8-5 yr for sure... But this is what happens when you lose experienced seniors to the draft...

Reality and true history of Nick Saban -- i hate the guy... but you can't deny he's the best HC in the modern era of CFB.

If Saban needed FIVE years to establish his FIRST winning season at Michigan State... to eventually become the GOAT of CFB HC's...

How is it that Diaz needs to be fired in his FIRST year at Miami?

Don't throw your mindless hate.... give me some LOGICAL arguments based on some FACTS.

If you hate Diaz, show my with some facts how that position is justified against the example of Nick Saban in his first 5 years at a young HC...

Preach!!!!!

 

[Canesq]

Nobody would be calling for Diaz's head in year 1 if we didn't lost to teams we had no business losing to.

Losing to GTech, FIU, Duke & UNC was inexcusable, the Va Tech loss was bad too but not as bad as those other L's.

That's why people have no faith in Diaz turning it around, even as a first year HC he could've easily gone 8-4 with this schedule, Chris Klieman who was a FCS coach won 8 games this year at K-State in year 1.

Obviously no coach gets fired in year 1, but the reason why people aren't buying that he's suddenly going to turn into Saban next year is because he's shown no signs he has what it takes to turn it around, he's compounding all his mistakes by doubling down on them & not changing anything, which will only result in more inexplicable & inexcusable losses.

He's digging his own grave, not us. Manny would have bought himself more leeway had he fired guys like Enox, Barry, Patke etc, but acting as if nothing is wrong & all our problems are just because "we're young" just spells out he doesn't get it & is headed down the same quick firing pathway that Taggart blazed.

Exactly. At this point we fans are experts at recognizing bad coaches. We know how this is going to end so might as well cut the cord now.

This off season is going to be miserable. Anything short of a major changes in his coaching staff there is nothing Diaz can do to make this off season exciting.

That’s the consequence of this TNM bs, crashing coaching clinics, and the portal circus. When you have this bad a season you are exposed as a clown and fraudster and have zero credibility.

His best bet is to STFU and fix it and produce early wins and dramatic improvement next season or it will really start to get uncomfortable.

 

[sdaly12]

for every nick saban there are three randy shannons, two Al Goldens, and a burnt to a crisp mark richt.

Manny Diaz is a nobody zero of a coach who outside of ONE year never fielded a top ten defense.

You slurpers are unreal stupid.

Lazy search should cost Blake and Carol their jobs as well