Do we need guys like Thomas?

[Foreman]

So you advocate catering to divas and allowing them to be disrespectful just because they are good? You think Saban would allow his kids to show up late to team functions without reprocussions and lip off to coaches? Absolutely not.

I can't pass judgement on individual actions or decisions because I wasn't there and I don't know all of the facts. I don't know if jeff is a diva or a frustrated kid who hasn't been coached properly .It's entirely possible that the coaching staff was 100% justified and made the right call when it comes to Jeff Thomas.

What I do know is one side of the ball has had a crap ton of player suspensions, poor perfomance and turmoil. This points to bad management.

Somehow our defensive coaches and other coaching staffs around the ncaa have managed to take players from the same generation and mindset and turned them into committed student-athletes and productive players. If the guys on the offensive staff can't make it work with today's player we need to find a new staff.

 

[Hurricane23]

Well it is a difference between getting in off the field trouble, and straight up disrespecting a coach, not only that disrespecting him as a man, if that’s what Thomas did.

 

[1mg of Epi]

You dont know that. How do you know this hadnt been festering for a long time well before this final incident? Most signs point to the fact it had been. They disciplined him the week prior for being late and having a bad attitude by not starting him in Blacksburg. Yet he comes back and does the same **** the following week. You don't let a player, ANY PLAYER!, disrespect coaches and call then personal insults. Period. Its amazing how many of you are making excuses for JT4.

Dude I’m not talking about JT4 or why he did what he did. I’m talking about the reaction of other teammates when a player leaves.

 

[1mg of Epi]

I can't pass judgement on individual actions or decisions because I wasn't there and I don't know all of the facts. I don't know if jeff is a diva or a frustrated kid who hasn't been coached properly .It's entirely possible that the coaching staff was 100% justified and made the right call when it comes to Jeff Thomas.

What I do know is one side of the ball has had a crap ton of player suspensions, poor perfomance and turmoil. This points to bad management.

Somehow our defensive coaches and other coaching staffs around the ncaa have managed to take players from the same generation and mindset and turned them into committed student-athletes and productive players. If the guys on the offensive staff can't make it work with today's player we need to find a new staff.

Agreed.. and does that mismanagemt relate In some way to JTs teammates not having any issue w his leaving?

 

[Go Canes!!]

Wow, he should definitely be kicked off the team and publicly humiliated for those violent, criminal transgressions.

Come on Go Canes, these are 18-22 year old kids. They think they know everything. They think they are the center of the universe. You need a coach and a staff that knows how to deal with them. Not every single player responds to the dictator-type socratic method of coaching.

All indications are that he bailed, then was kicked off the team? I seriously doubt they didn’t try everything they possibly could to keep him.

He kid has a history of doing exactly what he apparently just did. And you’re right they are 18-22 year olds. For that very reason you have to have at least some type of rule structure in place don’t you?

 

[Go Canes!!]

I can't pass judgement on individual actions or decisions because I wasn't there and I don't know all of the facts. I don't know if jeff is a diva or a frustrated kid who hasn't been coached properly .It's entirely possible that the coaching staff was 100% justified and made the right call when it comes to Jeff Thomas.

What I do know is one side of the ball has had a crap ton of player suspensions, poor perfomance and turmoil. This points to bad management.

Somehow our defensive coaches and other coaching staffs around the ncaa have managed to take players from the same generation and mindset and turned them into committed student-athletes and productive players. If the guys on the offensive staff can't make it work with today's player we need to find a new staff.

One thing that may be a factor is our defense is loaded with senior leaders while we have up to half a dozen true or RS freshmen lining up on any given offensive play

 

[For_The_U]

Dude I’m not talking about JT4 or why he did what he did. I’m talking about the reaction of other teammates when a player leaves.

I was replying to your assertion that Dugans didn't handle it right. You dont know that to be a fact at all.

 

[For_The_U]

All indications are that he bailed, then was kicked off the team? I seriously doubt they didn’t try everything they possibly could to keep him.

He kid has a history of doing exactly what he apparently just did. And you’re right they are 18-22 year olds. For that very reason you have to have at least some type of rule structure in place don’t you?

Bingo.

 

[1mg of Epi]

I was replying to your assertion that Dugans didn't handle it right. You dont know that to be a fact at all.

Sorry dude disregard my last reply... thought I was in another thread.

We do know that Dugans went off on jt in front of his teammates, and we know JTs reaction was to leave the team.

Based on those facts, I feel comfortable saying that Dugans didn’t handle The situation well. Unless the goal was kick him off the team, Dugans handled it exactly wrong.

Nobody won here.

 

[For_The_U]

Sorry dude disregard my last reply... thought I was in another thread.

We do know that Dugans went off on jt in front of his teammates, and we know JTs reaction was to leave the team.

Based on those facts, I feel comfortable saying that Dugans didn’t handle The situation well. Unless the goal was kick him off the team, Dugans handled it exactly wrong.

Nobody won here.

But that assumes Dugans elevated it to that level / JT4 didn't 100% get it to that point himself. Though none of us know exactly what happened, what seems to be the accepted set of facts we know is...

He was late the week of VT game.
He did not start as a result.
He was late again this week.
Clearly either didnt learn his lesson or doesnt give a sh-t about team rules.
He has had a bad attitude for weeks now.
I would 100% EXPECT his positional coach to reprimand him for this.
JT lipped off to the staff and hurled personal insults and between the two it degraded into dropping F bombs and he stormed out.

Your assumption is Dugans elected to just go nuts on him in front of the team. It dismisses the possibility that JT is the one who took it there. And if thats the case, what is Dugans supposed to do? Treat him with kid gloves, tell him everything is ok, pat him on the back and tell him to go have a few days off and come back to peaches and cream? Of course not, man, insubordination like that is a cancer to any organization with hierarchal leadership, especially one that consists of other impressionable young kids. You simply cannot allow that to fester. Period.

Again, you dont know Dugans handled it wrong. And based on JT's past, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. A very respected coach like Dugans isnt eager to be an ******* to his players and go at them aggressively for no one reason. In fact, I'd submit it would probably take a whole ******* lot to get Dugans to that point.

That's all Im saying. To paint a narrative that the staff mismanaged this situation and is responsible for this is guessing at best and most likely simply excuse making for JTs diva behavior.

 

[Foreman]

One thing that may be a factor is our defense is loaded with senior leaders while we have up to half a dozen true or RS freshmen lining up on any given offensive play

cager, Jahair Jones, Trayone Gray,Malik,Tyree St Louis, Tyler Gauthier, Hayden Mahoney, Travis Homer are all upper classmen, and let's not forget that many of our defensive players saw the field young and still performed. Redwine, JJ, Joe Jack, the three (at the time) freshmen linebackers never went through these kinds of poor stretches and turmoil.

 

[KLCane]

All indications are that he bailed, then was kicked off the team? I seriously doubt they didn’t try everything they possibly could to keep him.

He kid has a history of doing exactly what he apparently just did. And you’re right they are 18-22 year olds. For that very reason you have to have at least some type of rule structure in place don’t you?

It's either 1 of 2 things, the "rule structure" is too rigid and isn't relatable to the modern day student athlete, or the staff has recruited and failed to develop an inordinate amount of superstar athletes into men.

 

[1mg of Epi]

But that assumes Dugans elevated it to that level / JT4 didn't 100% get it to that point himself. Though none of us know exactly what happened, what seems to be the accepted set of facts we know is...

He was late the week of VT game.
He did not start as a result.
He was late again this week.
Clearly either didnt learn his lesson or doesnt give a sh-t about team rules.
He has had a bad attitude for weeks now.
I would 100% EXPECT his positional coach to reprimand him for this.
JT lipped off to the staff and hurled personal insults and between the two it degraded into dropping F bombs and he stormed out.

Your assumption is Dugans elected to just go nuts on him in front of the team. It dismisses the possibility that JT is the one who took it there. And if thats the case, what is Dugans supposed to do? Treat him with kid gloves, tell him everything is ok, pat him on the back and tell him to go have a few days off and come back to peaches and cream? Of course not, man, insubordination like that is a cancer to any organization with hierarchal leadership, especially one that consists of other impressionable young kids. You simply cannot allow that to fester. Period.

Again, you dont know Dugans handled it wrong. And based on JT's past, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. A very respected coach like Dugans isnt eager to be an ******* to his players and go at them aggressively for no one reason. In fact, I'd submit it would probably take a whole ******* lot to get Dugans to that point.

That's all Im saying. To paint a narrative that the staff mismanaged this situation and is responsible for this is guessing at best and most likely simply excuse making for JTs diva behavior.

Good points actually.

You’re right, we don’t know if JT escalated the situation or not. We do know that it went to a point the player walked out on the team.

So let’s say JT escalated it... isn’t it up to the coach to not match the players level of lunacy? Don’t we expect more out of the coaching staff than from a fragile player?

I totally get your points, and honestly can’t say that you’re wrong... but I just gotta think the staff should be smarter than to let the player control the situation, which the player did if he goaded Dugans into screaming.

JT needed to be disciplined.. no doubt. In fact, maybe he should’ve been kicked off the team. But the staff lost the power to do that, but being goaded into a yelling match. If that’s in fact what happened.

JT is to blame for his actions, but the staff shouldn’t have allowed the situation to get here.

 

[For_The_U]

Good points actually.

You’re right, we don’t know if JT escalated the situation or not. We do know that it went to a point the player walked out on the team.

So let’s say JT escalated it... isn’t it up to the coach to not match the players level of lunacy? Don’t we expect more out of the coaching staff than from a fragile player?

I totally get your points, and honestly can’t say that you’re wrong... but I just gotta think the staff should be smarter than to let the player control the situation, which the player did if he goaded Dugans into screaming.

JT needed to be disciplined.. no doubt. In fact, maybe he should’ve been kicked off the team. But the staff lost the power to do that, but being goaded into a yelling match. If that’s in fact what happened.

JT is to blame for his actions, but the staff shouldn’t have allowed the situation to get here.

Well said, man. You make great points as well. And perhaps the most important thing you said earlier was "nobody won in this". Thats correct for sure, and losing JT4 is a big big blow to this team. Hands down without question the best weapon the team had.

So i get what youre saying, and I do agree to some extent. Either way, it freakin sucks. What a dumpster fire this season has been! Ugh.

Always enjoy the dialogue with you, Epi. Cheers!

 

[1mg of Epi]

Well said, man. You make great points as well. And perhaps the most important thing you said earlier was "nobody won in this". Thats correct for sure, and losing JT4 is a big big blow to this team. Hands down without question the best weapon the team had.

So i get what youre saying, and I do agree to some extent. Either way, it freakin sucks. What a dumpster fire this season has been! Ugh.

Always enjoy the dialogue with you, Epi. Cheers!

 

[The Franchise]

So you advocate catering to divas and allowing them to be disrespectful just because they are good? You think Saban would allow his kids to show up late to team functions without reprocussions and lip off to coaches? Absolutely not.

It looks like whatever Sabag is doing is working. His players either are never late or out of line because he’s signing the right guys and/or leading them in the right direction. Or he’s handling their transgressions in a way that he’s not constantly suspending or firing players.

 

[The Franchise]

Sorry dude disregard my last reply... thought I was in another thread.

We do know that Dugans went off on jt in front of his teammates, and we know JTs reaction was to leave the team.

Based on those facts, I feel comfortable saying that Dugans didn’t handle The situation well. Unless the goal was kick him off the team, Dugans handled it exactly wrong.

Nobody won here.

And Rumph castigated CJ Henderson for being a diva at an all star game. According to everyone in the know, CJ was set to come to UM prior to Rumph going off on him. So far, he’s done pretty well at UF hasn’t he?

 

[The Franchise]

But that assumes Dugans elevated it to that level / JT4 didn't 100% get it to that point himself. Though none of us know exactly what happened, what seems to be the accepted set of facts we know is...

He was late the week of VT game.
He did not start as a result.
He was late again this week.
Clearly either didnt learn his lesson or doesnt give a sh-t about team rules.
He has had a bad attitude for weeks now.
I would 100% EXPECT his positional coach to reprimand him for this.
JT lipped off to the staff and hurled personal insults and between the two it degraded into dropping F bombs and he stormed out.

Your assumption is Dugans elected to just go nuts on him in front of the team. It dismisses the possibility that JT is the one who took it there. And if thats the case, what is Dugans supposed to do? Treat him with kid gloves, tell him everything is ok, pat him on the back and tell him to go have a few days off and come back to peaches and cream? Of course not, man, insubordination like that is a cancer to any organization with hierarchal leadership, especially one that consists of other impressionable young kids. You simply cannot allow that to fester. Period.

Again, you dont know Dugans handled it wrong. And based on JT's past, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. A very respected coach like Dugans isnt eager to be an ******* to his players and go at them aggressively for no one reason. In fact, I'd submit it would probably take a whole ******* lot to get Dugans to that point.

That's all Im saying. To paint a narrative that the staff mismanaged this situation and is responsible for this is guessing at best and most likely simply excuse making for JTs diva behavior.

Problem with your explanation is you’re painting the picture in a way that Dugans/Rick had no choice but to escalate the beef publicly with Thomas. You don’t know that any more than the guys you’re criticizing for blaming Dugans/Rick. Your “facts” are slanted toward Dugans having no choice but to publicly escalate the beef with Thomas.

Good leadership doesn’t allow this situation to fester to the point where your best offensive player winds up out the door. Good leaders see this situation building and festering and step in and try to fix it before it turns into WWIII, and then you feel like you have to kick him off the team for public insubordination.

Rick has a storied history of attrition at UbaGA and here. So he’s either signing the wrong guys or not reaching them properly with his message and brand of leadership.

 

[The Franchise]

It's either 1 of 2 things, the "rule structure" is too rigid and isn't relatable to the modern day student athlete, or the staff has recruited and failed to develop an inordinate amount of superstar athletes into men.

Yep. And there’s a 15 year history of these suspensions/expulsions that predates Rick’s time here.

 

[k9cane]

It looks like whatever Sabag is doing is working. His players either are never late or out of line because he’s signing the right guys and/or leading them in the right direction. Or he’s handling their transgressions in a way that he’s not constantly suspending or firing players.

well, leadership matters, bottom line

Saban is much more respected on many levels

But his rings do collect dust