Defensive Scheme vs Talent

[rok]

I disagree, I think the "agendas" started because someone who was beloved by few was fired and he was a DC at Miami. I think people with legitimate gripes about the defense, and people are right to have these, should voice their opinions.

I don't know about all of that. Nobody in their right mind could defend Shannon for anything other than the defense he ran. You're talking about Nites and like one other person on this planet. The people with legitimate gripes about the current defense have them because the current defense sucks.

Agree to disagree.

You're living in a fantasy world if you don't think that 99% of Canes fans who are unhappy with the current defense are unhappy with it because it has stunk for 2 seasons.

99% of fans? Really? You think 99% of the people upset about the defense don't have an agenda. Did you see that total defense thread? There is a gaggle of porsters in there with agendas. But again, agree to disagree.

FYI...Here is a post you made in this thread:

If we match our 2011 scoring D we'll be in business

I assume you meant in business in a good way?

If we match our 2011 scoring defense then we'll win a lot of games.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Yes. Now that the talent is in place, let's see what happens. I think it's safe to assume that we'll see a marked improvement. I still don't know what Randy Shannon has to do with anything. Able, could you help explain that to me?

It's taken time to clean up thanks comma Randy's mess.

When Golden got here, he said he was shocked that he was seeing a lot of the problems he had at Temple.

I'm aware of the mess he inherited. I just don't agree with the notion that the people who don't like the current defense have some sort of Randy-loving agenda.

I don't know about an agenda, but I think some are biased.

When the most ardent supporters are proven wrong, it's only natural for them to be highly skeptical of the next coach. I think we've seen a lot of that.

Also, I'm surprised that so many people are in a hurry to go back to the "Miami 4-3" after people HATED HATED HATED the scheme even when it was churning out top 10 units.

Bottom line: people want a great defense. The personnel just isn't there yet, but I expect us to be a lot better this year.

 

[rok]

Blows my mind how anyone can still defend Shannon, but I hear you.

I personally don't care what scheme we run, just stop the other team and I'm good.

 

[Consigliere]

I don't know about all of that. Nobody in their right mind could defend Shannon for anything other than the defense he ran. You're talking about Nites and like one other person on this planet. The people with legitimate gripes about the current defense have them because the current defense sucks.

Agree to disagree.

You're living in a fantasy world if you don't think that 99% of Canes fans who are unhappy with the current defense are unhappy with it because it has stunk for 2 seasons.

99% of fans? Really? You think 99% of the people upset about the defense don't have an agenda. Did you see that total defense thread? There is a gaggle of porsters in there with agendas. But again, agree to disagree.

FYI...Here is a post you made in this thread:

If we match our 2011 scoring D we'll be in business

I assume you meant in business in a good way?

If we match our 2011 scoring defense then we'll win a lot of games.

I respect your opinion Rok, I have just seen this from porsters for a ton of years now. People base their opinions sometimes on preconceived connotations and not on facts.

Agree to disagree that people are starting from the same point when basing their opinions.

 

[rok]

Agree to disagree.

You're living in a fantasy world if you don't think that 99% of Canes fans who are unhappy with the current defense are unhappy with it because it has stunk for 2 seasons.

99% of fans? Really? You think 99% of the people upset about the defense don't have an agenda. Did you see that total defense thread? There is a gaggle of porsters in there with agendas. But again, agree to disagree.

FYI...Here is a post you made in this thread:

If we match our 2011 scoring D we'll be in business

I assume you meant in business in a good way?

If we match our 2011 scoring defense then we'll win a lot of games.

I respect your opinion Rok, I have just seen this from porsters for a ton of years now. People base their opinions sometimes on preconceived connotations and not on facts.

Agree to disagree that people are starting from the same point when basing their opinions.

Fair enough.

 

[Da_U_85]

For the people who don't care about yards. How is the defense supposed to succeed if it's constantly giving up 80 yard drives. By the time the 4th quarter hits, they would presumably be useless. Keep in mind that the offense will/would be scoring in 2mins. So essentially the defense is on the field more than it should be. No one doesn't see that being a problem? I can see with that philosophy why we can lose games we shouldn't and why we can be easily beaten by the better teams.

 

[Newkirk]

For the people who don't care about yards. How is the defense supposed to succeed if it's constantly giving up 80 yard drives. By the time the 4th quarter hits, they would presumably be useless. Keep in mind that the offense will/would be scoring in 2mins. So essentially the defense is on the field more than it should be. No one doesn't see that being a problem? I can see with that philosophy why we can lose games we shouldn't and why we can be easily beaten by the better teams.

A defense that gives up alot of yards sucks and unless the offense is good enough to make up for it, the team most likely sucks. .500 or worse.

 

[FullyERicht]

For the people who don't care about yards. How is the defense supposed to succeed if it's constantly giving up 80 yard drives. By the time the 4th quarter hits, they would presumably be useless. Keep in mind that the offense will/would be scoring in 2mins. So essentially the defense is on the field more than it should be. No one doesn't see that being a problem? I can see with that philosophy why we can lose games we shouldn't and why we can be easily beaten by the better teams.

A defense that gives up alot of yards sucks and unless the offense is good enough to make up for it, the team most likely sucks. .500 or worse.

Didn't realize they handed out points for yards accumulated.

Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick disagree with you. I'll take their word over that of Uncle Luke or Xavier Shannon (whichever of the two you actuall are, Nights).

 

[Aliveguy]

The scheme calls for shoulder to shoulder gap control. Essentially, it means hat-on-hat should be at least effective against teams that like to spread & run.

That being said, the Dorito scheme doesn't work if the linemen are being put on skates and the defensive secondary is crap. ****, nobody has a scheme that would work when both pass and run defenses are ****ty.

In that KSU game, I would've loaded up against the run and taken a chance with Klein who is a streaky passer at best. Miami did it the year before and almost won the game if it wasn't for some soft *** play in the redone on that final drive.

THIS. Against teams with bad passing qbs... we should have better cbs than they have wrs and should put them on an island against their wrs. Then the other guys bring pressure up front...stopp the run and pressure hte pass.

 

[Newkirk]

For the people who don't care about yards. How is the defense supposed to succeed if it's constantly giving up 80 yard drives. By the time the 4th quarter hits, they would presumably be useless. Keep in mind that the offense will/would be scoring in 2mins. So essentially the defense is on the field more than it should be. No one doesn't see that being a problem? I can see with that philosophy why we can lose games we shouldn't and why we can be easily beaten by the better teams.

A defense that gives up alot of yards sucks and unless the offense is good enough to make up for it, the team most likely sucks. .500 or worse.

Didn't realize they handed out points for yards accumulated.

Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick disagree with you. I'll take their word over that of Uncle Luke or Xavier Shannon (whichever of the two you actuall are, Nights).

If your giving up alot of yards chances are your also giving up alot of points and your team most likely sucks. I don't need bill parcels to tell me 5 wins vs div 1 teams vs 6 losses is a great season. 5-6 means you suck but hey it was a successful season according to golden showers because the scoring defense was top 20.

One thing about is golden showers is he hasn't been able to pint out one tangible accomplishment golden has made on the field thus far. Figures.

 

[WhatTheHell]

Well than sound like it because so far your BS theories don't hold weight. This Dorito bashing circle jerk that a few of you subscribe to is based on stupidity.

Just back and let some real coaches show you how it's done corch.

Get your frequently-bobbing-head out of your ***, little boy. I'm not "bashing" D'Onofrio. I've been completely objective in everything I've ever said.

All of my points are valid and make perfect sense. And none of my opinions (or concerns) are definite, they're just questions and/or concerns. I've never once said "this, this and this will or won't happen".

Your whole "thing" is to call people idiots every time they make a point that you don't agree with. You don't actually debunk anything anybody says, EVER. You don't like my "BS theories" but you've never once said anything to debunk them, you just throw around insults like an angry little girl.

You said players in South FL don't fit the 3-4 scheme. I mentioned Wilfork being the best NT to play in a 3-4 and you said "Players like Wilfork don't grow on trees". I then reminded you that Wilfork grew from a South FL tree. I said I could on and on and you asked me to but I don't have time to put together a list of all of the South FL talent that have played or are playing in a 3-4 defense in the NFL. It would take to long and I wouldn't want to here all of the excuses as to how those types of players don't grow on trees.

Like I said, your BS theory that South FL talent can't play a 3-4 defense is just that. But you already know that because you ran one correct? Keep making sense bruh...

First of all...

Didn't say they "can't" play in a 3-4.

Second...

You don't have time, my ***. You just can't think of anybody else. You don't have time to list some more players but you have time to constantly talk **** on here post after post? Gimme a fvckin' break.

Your dumb *** is talkin' about the NFL. Well ****, EVERYBODY that goes to the NFL can play in a 3-4. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE IN THE NFL!!! They draft the best-of-the-best. We're talkin' about Miami grabbing kids from South Florida, not the NFL grabbing the best-of-the-best from around the country.

FACT: Most South Florida high school kids don't play in the 3-4.
FACT: Most South Florida high school kids aren't accustomed to engaging blockers and/or 2-gapping.
FACT: Most South Florida high school kids play in speed-based penetration schemes.
FACT: South Florida is a speed region, not a brute strength region.
FACT: What we're doing on defense is an adjustment from what the kids in South Florida have been doing their whole life.

Do all of these things mean that what Golden and D'Onofrio are doing WON'T work? Not at all. However, most likely it means that kids will take longer to contribute once they get here.

And in my opinion, it also makes evaluations more difficult. If you're watching countless South Florida high school Defensive Lineman shoot gaps, how are you able to get a real idea of whether he can play in your more physical scheme or not? You've never seen him do what YOU are asking him to do.

I'm not saying it can't work, or will never work, all I'm saying is that it's like Wisconsin trying to run a speed-based offense.

Let me tell you something, if Bama can run a hybrid 3-4 defense then Miami can most certainly run a 3-4 defense. Sounds like you have all of these doubts because no one has given you any proof to be positive. Do you really want me to produce a list of players that play in the NFL that are from the state of Miami? You saying that of course those players can play in a 3-4 because they're in the NFL is straight up ******* stupid. The state of Miami produces more NFL talent than any region in the entire USA. Again, this conjured up BS theory that South FL talent can't play in a 3-4 defense is BS. You yourself already stated you ran a 3-4?

Now how about some info I've been keeping back just to allow enough rope for you Dorito haters to hang yourself? You keep talking about South FL talent? I guess you haven't figured out that at any point in time where Miami has dominated they've done so because they have recruited well nationally? This idea that South FL recruiting makes or breaks Miami is just another load of BS from people who don't get it. Get it corch?

Like I said, sit back and relax and watch real coaches coach corch.

Nice call.