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DAILY DEBATE: Who is the best LB in Miami history?

DTP said:
Cool but that’s got nothing to do with you comparing Dan Morgan to Xavier Restrepo. Morgan is, at worst, the second best linebacker at Miami ever. Restrepo is a great player but he’s not even a top 5 Miami receiver.
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No the point is using stats as the basis for argument. Instead of saying Dan has the numbers just say he played the position better if that’s what you believe. Using X was to provide comparison the he also has the stats but him having the stats should not be the basis of saying he’s the best.

If the stats are why Dan is the best LB then…
Dorsey is the best QB
X is the best receiver
Otis is the best RB

Why only look to stats for one position but be ready to factor in other things for another position.

Dan balled TF out while he was here but his stats alone don’t tell the whole story. No more than Brandon Meriweather having more tackles than any other Safety who’s ever played at UM. Saying he had the most tackles at the position without providing that he played here 4 full seasons and 3 games from another (medical redshirt) provides different context.
 
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I think there’s good consensus/arguments at the top. More interesting… who was the best post Dan Morgan?
 
From a Miami only perspective, I’d have to go with Dan Morgan.

Four year starter, no? All-time leading tackler. Won all the awards he could his senior year, except Heisman. Only thing missing is a NC, but that wasn’t his fault. Miami would’ve kicked Oklahoma’s ***.

Ray Lewis is right behind him, as a three year starter. At least he started most of his freshman year, so I will count that season.

After that, you could put Nate, Barrow, Armstead, Darrin Smith, Marley, Vilma, Beason, Perryman, Spence, and DJ in any order do you want. Perryman and Spence played on far lesser teams so imagine what they could’ve done on the great teams. Both would’ve dominated.
 
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I love Dan….but it’s Ray

I still remember watching the 1993 game at Colorado

That’s where Ray Lewis showed up….and there was a massive fight
 
Morgan. But him or ray on this years unit make it a top ten unit… absolutely dominating players with aura
 
DTP said:
Cool but that’s got nothing to do with you comparing Dan Morgan to Xavier Restrepo. Morgan is, at worst, the second best linebacker at Miami ever. Restrepo is a great player but he’s not even a top 5 Miami receiver.
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I understand that everyone has an opinion about what a "top 5 Miami receiver" is, looks like, or should be.

But it is inarguable that Xavier Restrepo is the #1 UM WR of all time in both receptions and yardage. And he is #4 in TD receptions.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
I understand that everyone has an opinion about what a "top 5 Miami receiver" is, looks like, or should be.

But it is inarguable that Xavier Restrepo is the #1 UM WR of all time in both receptions and yardage. And he is #4 in TD receptions.
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It’s all subjective. Not the numbers of course but where you might rank a player. Especially when comparing players in the modern game to guys in the past when it was a much different game. The passing game alone is miles beyond where it was 20 years ago. Quarterbacks and receivers today are going to statistically crush guys from 20-30 years ago.

Comparing numbers from two linebackers who played in the same era is a little more realistic though.
 
FuriousStyles said:
Were his stats unmatched because he played here 4 years vs Ray playing here 3 yrs… or he played the position better overall while here?
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Ray Lewis - for his 3-year career had total tackles and assists of 393 (81 total as a freshman, 152 as a sophomore, 160 as a junior).

Dan Morgan - number one all-time in total tackles and assists at 532 (105 total as a freshman, 150 as a sophomore, 139 as a junior, 138 as a senior).

Strictly by averages, Ray averaged 131 total tackles over 3 years and Dan averaged 133 tackles over 4 years. However, Ray's numbers went up each year, while Dan's best year was his sophomore year. In order to beat Dan's career record, Ray would have needed 140 tackles as a senior, and since he recorded 152 and 160 in the two preceding years, it is not crazy to think that Ray might well have the career record if he had stayed for his senior year.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Ray Lewis - for his 3-year career had total tackles and assists of 393 (81 total as a freshman, 152 as a sophomore, 160 as a junior).

Dan Morgan - number one all-time in total tackles and assists at 532 (105 total as a freshman, 150 as a sophomore, 139 as a junior, 138 as a senior).

Strictly by averages, Ray averaged 131 total tackles over 3 years and Dan averaged 133 tackles over 4 years. However, Ray's numbers went up each year, while Dan's best year was his sophomore year. In order to beat Dan's career record, Ray would have needed 140 tackles as a senior, and since he recorded 152 and 160 in the two preceding years, it is not crazy to think that Ray might well have the career record if he had stayed for his senior year.
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See… that’s why I like you @TheOriginalCane, lol.

But seriously, I already looked and saw those numbers. And I wasn’t trying to be a d*ck and diminish Dan to lift up Ray because I’m a fan of both and they are both Canes. It’s just the argument of Dan having better numbers which is why he was the better LB wasn’t jiving with me for the exact reasons you laid out. Let the argument for Dan be about him playing the position better based on what people saw… watched with their own eyes. And if that’s what anyone believes then just say that. But comparing numbers for two LBs who played 3 yrs vs 4 yrs would be no different than comparing a WR who played here 5 yrs vs the others who played either 3 or 4 years.
 
DTP said:
It’s all subjective. Not the numbers of course but where you might rank a player. Especially when comparing players in the modern game to guys in the past when it was a much different game. The passing game alone is miles beyond where it was 20 years ago. Quarterbacks and receivers today are going to statistically crush guys from 20-30 years ago.

Comparing numbers from two linebackers who played in the same era is a little more realistic though.
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Nope. Not buying into that nonsense about how you can't compare passing games from 20-30 years ago. Using 2024 as the baseline, 20 years ago was 2004 and 30 years ago was 1994.

First, the QBs. We can all agree that Cam Ward, for all purposes, is a statistical outlier in his one year at Miami, in every sense of the word.

I'm using yards per game to eliminate differentials between years-played and games-played-per-year. Yards per game is a good measure of the production of each QB across a career.

But look who is #3. Bernie Kosar. From 40 years ago. #6 is Ken Dorsey, from 25 years ago. #8 is Brock Berlin, from 20 year ago. So to say that these "recent" guys (Cam Ward excluded, of course) would "crush" the older guys is wrong.

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Then look at WRs. Unfortunately, I don't have per-game averages, but we can still draw some valid conclusions.

Of the Top 20 all-time Miami receivers, 18 are WRs and 2 are TEs.

Once you get past Xavier, the next FOUR are "old-timers" who played 25-40 years ago. So if we WERE ABLE TO COMPUTE the yardage-per-game stats, Santana and Reggie and Michael and Lamar would likely BENEFIT, as they played before the 12-game regular season was implemented in 2006.

And the same is true for Andre Johnson and Downtown Eddie Brown and Wesley Carroll and Larry Brodsky and Randal Thrill Hill and Chris T. Jones (not to be confused with Chris C. Jones).

That means that 10 of the top 18 all-time UM WRs by yardage are old-timers.

So, no, I'm not going to downgrade Xavier for "cheap stats" or "cheap records". Yes, last year he played with a statistical outlier (Cam Ward). But Xavier put up his numbers with QBs good (Cam) and bad (everyone else). He did most of his statistical damage over 2 years (as many old-timey WRs did). So I'm not going to pretend that Xavier's stats "crush" everyone else's over time. It is a very fair comparison to look at Xavier side-by-side with the other UM great WRs.

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