Counting Football Scholarships Forward

Assuming that the reports that the Canes are at their scholarship limit are accurate, then we should also expect there to be some current Canes hitting the transfer Portal soon as they learn that the prospects for real playing time is slim.

If recent past history is any indication, I expect at least three more transfers by Fall camp

We arent close to the 85 limit. We are full for 2020 IC with Walker transfering in. People leaving do not open up ICs. I wish they did but they dont.
 
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When we just put all the walk-ons on scholarship, Did they eat into our ability to get somebody like the Houston OT? Or do they count against several years ago?


Since the CIS geniuses have guaranteed us that we can take as many transfers as we want this fall (and count them against 2021, regardless of what the NCAA rules say), then we are definitely screwed by the 4 scholarships awarded to walk-ons, as that takes away 4 more transfers we could have signed for Fall 2020.
 
Since the CIS geniuses have guaranteed us that we can take as many transfers as we want this fall (and count them against 2021, regardless of what the NCAA rules say), then we are definitely screwed by the 4 scholarships awarded to walk-ons, as that takes away 4 more transfers we could have signed for Fall 2020.

Yesu, people are going to believe you. Can you explain how us giving one year scholarships to walk-ons doesn’t affect anything as far as being able to get transfers or sign recruits. People don’t seem to want to believe that.
 
There is a different section that covers walkons and being on campus for a year before being granted a football scholarship. The section I referenced is something different entirely. Read the rules, before adding 2cents.

15.5.6.3.5 Aid First Awarded After First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least one academic year may receive athletically related financial aid for the first time without such aid counting as an initial award, provided the aid falls within the overall grant limitation.

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So now you're going to pull your snide BS on me? I know the rules far better than you ever will.

I am very clearly stating that you can't beat the IC rules by letting a kid walk on for a SEMESTER, and then giving him a scholarship.

And I am correct.
 
Yesu, people are going to believe you. Can you explain how us giving one year scholarships to walk-ons doesn’t affect anything as far as being able to get transfers or sign recruits. People don’t seem to want to believe that.

Yeah, I was trying to be sarcastic, but I guess some people believe even the joke posts.

Scholarships are 1-year and renewable. Walk-ons who have been at UM for one year don't count as ICs.

Thus, if we are under 85 scholarships, we can give a 1-year scholarship to a walk-on, which has no impact on the IC rules (and we don't have to renew the scholarship after a year).

It's a $75K gift that doesn't limit us at all. In fact, it helps us get to 85 scholarship players, which allows us to use the mid-year replacement exception.
 
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IMHO, they need a waiver from the NCAA for Asa Martin or they won't be able to get around the 25 IC rule with Williams. Do we really want the NCAA back up in our **** again?
 
Yeah, I was trying to be sarcastic, but I guess some people believe even the joke posts.

Scholarships are 1-year and renewable. Walk-ons who have been at UM for one year don't count as ICs.

Thus, if we are under 85 scholarships, we can give a 1-year scholarship to a walk-on, which has no impact on the IC rules (and we don't have to renew the scholarship after a year).

It's a $75K gift that doesn't limit us at all. In fact, it helps us get to 85 scholarship players, which allows us to use the mid-year replacement exception.

Thank you. Other than the cost, it’s a win-win
 
Thank you. Other than the cost, it’s a win-win


Yes sir.

And yet another reason to realize...Manny is aware that he has HARD limitations on the IC numbers. Otherwise, there is no way in **** he gives out 4 walk-on scholarships in the spring. We gain NOTHING from giving walk-ons these 2020-2021 scholarships in January when we could just as easily do so in August...

Unless you KNOW that you could not possibly exceed the IC numbers by "counting forward".
 
So now you're going to pull your snide BS on me? I know the rules far better than you ever will.

I am very clearly stating that you can't beat the IC rules by letting a kid walk on for a SEMESTER, and then giving him a scholarship.

And I am correct.

I am glad you know the rules better than what I directly quoted, so then apparently the NCAA written rules are merely suggestions since you don't agree with what quoted okay duly noted. An based on the scenario I quoted yes you can use the loophole but it is an extremely risky endeavor for both the school and player since the staff can't confirm the players measurable or health in person and the school could renege on the unwritten offer for the player to be put on scholarship.

Go Canes
 
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I am glad you know the rules better than what I directly quoted, so then apparently the NCAA written rules are merely suggestions since you don't agree with what quoted okay duly noted. An based on the scenario I quoted yes you can use the loophole but it is an extremely risky endeavor for both the school and player since the staff can't confirm the players measurable or health in person and the school could renege on the unwritten offer for the player to be put on scholarship.

Go Canes


Look, parrotnose, you don't know what you are talking about.

There is no "loophole". Stop trying to act smarter than you actually are.
 
There is been a lot of debates on how this can be done. Here is the rules from the NCAA handbook for FY2019-2020 that define what a recruit is and a non recruited Student-Athlete. This rule could be applied to Houston oline grad transfer Jarrid Williams as long he doesn't OV Miami, meet with coaches in person, nor gets a NLI from Miami. I am thinking he comes as a walk on and is immediately put on scholarship after his 1st day of fall practice.

15.02.9 Recruited Student-Athlete.
For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, Revised: 4/25/18) (a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus; (b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s family members); or (c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.


15.5.6.3.3 Nonrecruited Student-Athlete Receiving Institutional Financial Aid During First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete not recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.9) by the institution who receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) after beginning football practice during the first year of enrollment becomes a counter but need not be counted as an initial counter until the next academic year if the institution has reached its initial limit for the year in question. However, the studentathlete shall be considered in the total counter limit for the academic year in which the aid was first received.

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It's technically possible, but imo risky. He'd have to have had no contact, and no financial aid offer. He could then apply and then walk-on and get a scholarship after walking on. But how does he do that over an offer from another school? All on the basis of King whispering to him. Very borderline. Is he even allowed to apply as a PWO?
 
Look, parrotnose, you don't know what you are talking about.

There is no "loophole". Stop trying to act smarter than you actually are.

It's called BlueShirting schools have been doing for a while and continue to do it. Look it up then STFU mr. TOC

Lol kick his ***

@Mklein13 You can go along for the ride with the Mr. Tik TOC also.

I am merely posting info to the board for conversation and ya'll are gonna come at me sideways, not today partner!


Go Canes
 
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It's technically possible, but imo risky. He'd have to have had no contact, and no financial aid offer. He could then apply and then walk-on and get a scholarship after walking on. But how does he do that over an offer from another school? All on the basis of King whispering to him. Very borderline. Is he even allowed to apply as a PWO?

WVU did it with 3 grad transfer players this year as Blue Shirts.

Go Canes
 
It's called BlueShirting schools have been doing for a while and continue to do it. Look it up then STFU mr. TOC



@Mklein13 You can go along for the ride with the Mr. Tik TOC also.

I am merely posting info to the board for conversation and ya'll are gonna come at me sideways, not today partner!


Go Canes
Oh relax tightass I’m just ******* with you
 
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It's called BlueShirting schools have been doing for a while and continue to do it. Look it up then STFU mr. TOC



@Mklein13 You can go along for the ride with the Mr. Tik TOC also.

I am merely posting info to the board for conversation and ya'll are gonna come at me sideways, not today partner!


Go Canes


Here, let me walk you through this, parrotnose.

You think you've found gold. You think you've figured out blueshirting. But you haven't. You don't understand the ramifications, and you don't understand what I've posted previously.

I have been clear all along. I have always referenced LOIs and FAAs as being subject to the IC rules. And I realize that you think you are some kind of genius who is proposing that Miami could thread the blueshirt needle.

I've never denied that blueshirting exists. But the reason why state schools like New Mexico and Tennessee can try to utilize the rule is because they are state schools with relatively easy admissions requirements. So let's review the impediments to blueshirting anyone (which, of course, is NOT the same as signing a guy to an LOI/FAA and "counting forward", which you cannot do).

Recruiting - Miami has recruited Walker. Miami has recruited Moise. There is no way in **** that you can ever argue that Walker or Moise could ever blueshirt. So then we move on to Williams and/or Tag-along. Clearly, Williams was not recruited by Miami 4 years ago, and it's possible that Richt never was hosted by the Tag-along family. So let's assume you could get over the "prior recruiting" hump with those two. Then you would need to make sure that you do not recruit them going forward. This is much more likely with Taulia, as his family is moving to Miami soon, and if he is dead-set on coming to Miami, then he likely won't entertain the recruiting efforts of other schools. Jarrid Williams is a different story, though, his reasons for coming to Miami would hinge on things like coaching and scheme that are the kinds of things discussed on in-person visits.

Admissions - Taulia is an undergrad transfer. However, Jarrid Williams is a grad transfer, and one of the things you have to do is to pursue a graduate degree that is not offered at his current school. Furthermore, because neither Taulia nor Jarrid would have a signed LOI/FAA, they would have to apply to UM AND BE ACCEPTED on their own academic merits. Put in another way, they can't "Aunt Becky" their way into UM, that is, get preferential academic treatment because they are recruited/scholarship-offered athletes. There is a reason why nearly every Division I-A football program has special handling for recruited football players - most of them would never be admitted to the university UNLESS they were scholarship football players. And when UM takes grad transfers, our Athletic Department works with those recruited grad transfers to find the right grad program and assist with completing the paperwork necessary to get the ELIGIBILITY of the grad transfer established. So, if you want to assume that Taulia and Jarrid are straight-A students who can get into UM on their own merits, without the promise of an athletic scholarship (which goes a looooong way to offsetting academic deficiencies), and that Jarrid can figure out the grad programs on his own without the Athletic Department assisting him, then maybe you get past another obstacle.

Summer closures - Again, UM is largely shut down for Summer 2020, including Admissions, which largely wrapped up its work for the 2020-2021 school year before Covid-19 quarantines began. Again, there is a REASON why the Athletic Department can "move an application along" when UM has already set its freshman and/or transfer and/or grad admissions classes in stone. And you undervalue the importance that the LOI/FAA has on the process. Without the written scholarship agreement, there is no rationale for Admissions to give special treatment to the applicant, either in considering a VERY late application for admission, or in applying "separate" academic vs. athletic criteria to the application. And with UM pretty much shut down (on the Admin side) for the summer, this year is probably the WORST year ever to attempt any sort of "blueshirt" ploy. When Joaquin Gonzalez applied to UM for an academic (not athletic) scholarship, he was a legitimate academic candidate, he had been admitted to an Ivy League university. That's the reason why the NCAA didn't attack Miami for an obvious attempt to evade the probation scholarship sanction limitations. At this late date, and without Athletic Department assistance, it seems very unlikely that either Taulia or Jarrid would be able to apply to UM and be accepted on their academic, not athletic, merits. Plus, Jarrid would need to take the GRE/GMAT/LSAT/MCAT for whatever program to which he applies.

Payment - Assuming Miami could prove that it did NOT recruit Taulia or Jarrid, and assuming they both got into UM on their academic merits, they would still have to begin the payment process, without the assistance of athletic financial aid. So, deposits and other payments would need to be made in advance of the reporting deadline. Clearly, this would not be a problem for Taulia.

Practical impact - Over the past several years, Miami has had a rash of transfers-out, washouts, ill-advised-early-NFL-entrants, and other forms of attrition. Miami is so far below 85 that we were able to give out FOUR walk-on scholarships and we are STILL below 85. The biggest limitation on Miami is the IC rule limitation of 25 per year. So the argument is that Miami is going to use an IC slot that could go to a recruit who could be at Miami for 5 years...on (a) a player who has 1 year to play 1, and/or (b) a player who has 3 years to play 2, and will almost certainly not play in 2020 due to transfer rules and/or D'Eriq King...and then cut your (potentially loaded) 2021 signing class to 23 (by which time Jarrid Williams would be gone)...well, if you think Manny is going to do that, then you are free to believe that.

And nothing that I've mentioned even factors in whether Jarrid or Taulia would be willing to (a) play a massive trust game and (b) forego all other opportunities for an unknown (at least on the ADMISSIONS side of UM). Of course, that calculus changes the MINUTE that a recruit signs an LOI/FAA. And maybe Taulia has the resources to navigate all of this, which is why I have always maintained that he could do it (particularly with the fallback position of Tua stroking a check for $75K, which, by the way, would take Taulia out of EVER needing to be an IC). Jarrid Williams is a different situation, though, and with Miami being a small school whose largest grad programs are Med and Law (neither of which I believe he would be applying for), I find it very unlikely that Jarrid Williams would (in such a short time period and with a summertime "Covid-19" schedule at UM) be able to take the GRE/GMAT, apply for a grad program at UM, and be admitted on his own academic merits with no athletic consideration whatsoever...

and that all of that could occur when other schools could offer Jarrid and/or Taulia (but especially Jarrid) with the kinds of assurances that would be necessary within a short time-frame, namely the security and priority afforded to athletes who sign an LOI/FAA with a university.

So, sure, let's all drink the Kool-Aid and talk about what a simple analysis it is to blueshirt Jarrid Williams and/or Taulia.

There's a reason that this is done almost exclusively at state schools, and with incoming freshmen.

There's a reason why Miami has NEVER pulled off a blueshirt.

But, yeah, let's just copy-and-paste NCAA rules and act like it could/should happen.

I could see something like this happening with Taulia. I have never cast doubt on our ability to get Taulia (though I'm not sure if it is worth it). I would FAR prefer to see Tua cut a check for $75K, then Miami puts Taulia on scholarship in 2021 AND MOST IMPORTANTLY TAULIA WOULD NEVER BE AN IC IN THAT CASE, NOT FOR 2020, NOT FOR 2021, NOT EVER.

But for Jarrid Williams? It seems next to impossible, there are so many moving parts and I'm sure he will have solid LOI/FAA offers from other universities. You would be asking a kid to trust Miami, and I'm sure the Moise family might have some opinions on that.
 
You wrote all of that just to back track on your original statement, . Let's revisit in OP i was referring to the possibility of counting grad transfer Jarrid Williams forward. You unequivocally stated this was not possible because you knew the ncaa rules better then I ever would and the ncaa doesn't allow it. So when I post an article about how WVU counted 3 grad transfers forward to their 2020 class who played in 2019. Apparently WVU is lying. Everyone but you is wrong and to prove it you threw in distracting statements about Walker and Taulia both of whom were not in my OP and one of which was clearly classfied as a recruit (Walker).

In the end hopefully UH grad transfer olinemen Jarrid Williams blueshirts at UM helping our offense in 2020 and let's move on from this argument.

Go Canes
 
You wrote all of that just to back track on your original statement, . Let's revisit in OP i was referring to the possibility of counting grad transfer Jarrid Williams forward. You unequivocally stated this was not possible because you knew the ncaa rules better then I ever would and the ncaa doesn't allow it. So when I post an article about how WVU counted 3 grad transfers forward to their 2020 class who played in 2019. Apparently WVU is lying. Everyone but you is wrong and to prove it you threw in distracting statements about Walker and Taulia both of whom were not in my OP and one of which was clearly classfied as a recruit (Walker).

In the end hopefully UH grad transfer olinemen Jarrid Williams blueshirts at UM helping our offense in 2020 and let's move on from this argument.

Go Canes


Look, don't be mad at everyone else because you don't know the difference between "counting forward" (which is impermissible) and blueshirting.

You are ignorant of the rules, and you can't even articulate your own thoughts. But, hey, congrats for posting an article about West Virginia.

You have been a consistently weak porster, very little knowledge, terrible analysis, so maybe you should leave the discussion of the NCAA rules to the adults, you're not built for this.

You are the Scott Burrell of porsters.
 
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