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[Canesfan1899]

Came to this thread to say what we apparently already communicated over Twitter.

Worse yet, that state traditionally (maybe less now than 15-20 years ago) overvalues players in their sophomore and junior years (actually, something I'm beginning to see in Florida, as well). There's tremendous opportunity in identifying "late bloomers." We're talking about 16-18 year old kids.

Look at a kid like DJ Ivey, really skinny DB, got to Miami and looks completely different from year 1 to year 2. Kid was a 3* low 4* prospect that has a chance to play a lot or start as a Sophomore and likely has still a lot of room to develop. I don't feel like you see that as much from Texas schools.

 

[HSFC]

I totally disagree. Florida, particularly South Florida, is better. A 3 star from SoFla is better than any 4 star, and a lot of 5 star players wherever they're from. Forever I've held that Texas players aren't all they're cracked up to be. Forever, UTex dominated recruiting in Tx, including back when we embarrassed them in the bowl game. I've always felt that the really good Tx players are those who go elsewhere. Case in point, a certain Cane linebacker.

Talent in Florida as rich as anywhere, development of the players lack, particularly in Miami Dade

 

[QuattroCane]

"there's no better developed player than a Texas high school football player"

What part of this escapes some of you? Where does it say Texas athletes are better than Florida?

 

[Silver King]

...But there's no state recruited harder than Florida. Texas is always playing for 2nd or 3rd place with California

Plus, go to the U.S. Census and look at how many high school aged kids Texas and Cali have compared to the retirement state of Florida. With all those extra numbers, Florida is still the best high school football state.

 

[TruCane81]

The way the system is moving, players begin testing at an earlier and earlier age. It benefits the player who grew to be 90% percentile in height, weight, speed by the 9th or 10th grade. They get on the radar sooner. They get more offers. They even may get more training opportunities.

Yet, by the time they're seniors, let's say Player A is 80% of what you project him to be at the college level. But, there's a "late bloomer" (I'm hesitant to use that term for a 17 year old), Player B, who grew late or even still has room to grow in their senior season and in college. Player B may have the same or even higher potential than Player A, but we're late to the offer party or never offer at all.

Sure, perhaps because Player B had a huge Senior season the Star Ranking system covered their asses by making him a late rising 4 star or leave him as a 3 star, but we (the Canes) didn't focus on that kid enough. I'm not saying you can make an entire roster this way, because of the risk involved, but there should be specific room made for these types. One of the first times I found this process bizarre was watching Texas "lock up" their recruiting classes almost a year in advance about 20 years ago.

Now, I see this process happening in Florida more often. Especially with early signing period playing a role in today's process. Zion Nelson is a positive example of us projecting out a kid. Even if he doesn't become a contributor this year, he projects as one next year or at least in his career.

If I were running a college player personnel department, I'd keep a database of guys who (a) switched sports late (especially basketball to football), (b) didn't test at a camp till late, (c) had some unusual growth spurt after 10th or 11th grade, (d) switched positions or project to a totally different position (e.g. Florida QBs who'd make better Safeties or WRs), etc., etc. I'd try to beat the bag teams by unearthing as many late blooming gems as I could find. Even if they don't become significant contributors till they're RS Sophomores, you can balance that out with the more polished recruits.

The way the system is moving, players begin testing at an earlier and earlier age. It benefits the player who grew to be 90% percentile in height, weight, speed by the 9th or 10th grade. They get on the radar sooner. They get more offers. They even may get more training opportunities.

Yet, by the time they're seniors, let's say Player A is 80% of what you project him to be at the college level. But, there's a "late bloomer" (I'm hesitant to use that term for a 17 year old), Player B, who grew late or even still has room to grow in their senior season and in college. Player B may have the same or even higher potential than Player A, but we're late to the offer party or never offer at all.

Sure, perhaps because Player B had a huge Senior season the Star Ranking system covered their asses by making him a late rising 4 star or leave him as a 3 star, but we (the Canes) didn't focus on that kid enough. I'm not saying you can make an entire roster this way, because of the risk involved, but there should be specific room made for these types. One of the first times I found this process bizarre was watching Texas "lock up" their recruiting classes almost a year in advance about 20 years ago.

Now, I see this process happening in Florida more often. Especially with early signing period playing a role in today's process. Zion Nelson is a positive example of us projecting out a kid. Even if he doesn't become a contributor this year, he projects as one next year or at least in his career.

If I were running a college player personnel department, I'd keep a database of guys who (a) switched sports late (especially basketball to football), (b) didn't test at a camp till late, (c) had some unusual growth spurt after 10th or 11th grade, (d) switched positions or project to a totally different position (e.g. Florida QBs who'd make better Safeties or WRs), etc., etc. I'd try to beat the bag teams by unearthing as many late blooming gems as I could find. Even if they don't become significant contributors till they're RS Sophomores, you can balance that out with the more polished recruits.

Excellent stuff, Lu. I appreciate the response

It always bothered me how we would strike out on the top guys then make last minute offers to guys who were interested at first, but took offense to how we ignored them to the last minute. They proceed to stick with lesser programs who showed them love early and the had gotten in their mind to play for.

I know resource wise, we can’t find every hidden gem, but our approach still seemed off. Shannon, Golden, or Richt it didn’t matter. Always seemed like they were picky as **** then be making excuses about a lack of quality depth at positions Florida produces in abundance.

You can’t have it both ways. It’s like those guys all overrated their philosophies and recruiting abilities, then got indignant about needing more time.

The fans are always promoting talented guys on the boards who UM ignores, and become impatient when these guys ball out for lesser teams at positions we are lacking. It’s hard for a coach to get the benefit of the doubt when they do that over and over.

Yeah the services are better and it is not easy to find the hall of game quality hidden gems like Butch did, but the system has open space for staffs that are willing to put in the work and trust in their evaluations.

Richt worked reasonably hard, but he wasn’t burning the midnight oil Butch style. ****, he had grandkids, damnit. Rings collect dust anyway.

I am hoping Manny is the young, hungry coach who can turn this around. He has proven himself developing state of Miami players on defense.

 

[TruCane81]

If the state of Florida spent the amount of money that Texas does on high school football, You'd never recruit anybody form any other state ever again. Public school coaches in Texas actually make money unlike public school coaches in Florida. A majority of the coaches at Florida public schools, outside of the head coach are volunteers. That's why there's so many incredibly talented but raw kids coming out of Florida, especially south Florida.

You still have to be a school board employee to head coach in Florida, right?

If we ran our programs like businesses the way Texas and Georgia does, there would be no argument for who develops the best players.

 

[DTP]

You still have to be a school board employee to head coach in Florida, right?

If we ran our programs like businesses the way Texas and Georgia does, there would be no argument for who develops the best players.

Yes, the head coach has to be employed by the school in some full time capacity. Assistants don't.

 

[The U Code]

I totally disagree. Florida, particularly South Florida, is better. A 3 star from SoFla is better than any 4 star, and a lot of 5 star players wherever they're from. Forever I've held that Texas players aren't all they're cracked up to be. Forever, UTex dominated recruiting in Tx, including back when we embarrassed them in the bowl game. I've always felt that the really good Tx players are those who go elsewhere. Case in point, a certain Cane linebacker.

Go back and read Herman’s comments, he chose his words carefully, hard to argue with what he said. Texas has the best coaching and facilities in all of h.s football.

 

[TruCane81]

Yes, the head coach has to be employed by the school in some full time capacity. Assistants don't.

That is a HUGE disadvantage.

Makes Florida’s talent production even more remarkable.

 

[ItsAUThing.com]

Speaking to a collection of Texas high school coaches, the Head Coach at The University of Texas complimented the development of Texas athletes.

Could there possibly be anything less noteworthy?

Seriously. Graduated from University of Texas. Grad assistant for the Longhorns a year later. Coached at Rice and Houston before landing back at his alma mater. In a room full of Lone Star State head coaches—UT's head coach praises high school football in Texas and player development. Hardly earth shattering "news".

 

[ItsAUThing.com]

I totally disagree. Florida, particularly South Florida, is better. A 3 star from SoFla is better than any 4 star, and a lot of 5 star players wherever they're from. Forever I've held that Texas players aren't all they're cracked up to be. Forever, UTex dominated recruiting in Tx, including back when we embarrassed them in the bowl game. I've always felt that the really good Tx players are those who go elsewhere. Case in point, a certain Cane linebacker.

Miami dominated Texas in that bowl game 29 years ago. That has zero relevancy in today's game.

Herman's point is accurate. He complimented the DEVELOPMENT of Texas high school football players—he didn't say that Texas had the best talent in the country; just that they're system is better in regards to getting kids ready to play at the next level. He's absolutely on point.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Miami dominated Texas in that bowl game 29 years ago. That has zero relevancy in today's game.

Herman's point is accurate. He complimented the DEVELOPMENT of Texas high school football players—he didn't say that Texas had the best talent in the country; just that they're system is better in regards to getting kids ready to play at the next level. He's absolutely on point.

So Texas didn't have HS coaches when we bust UT's @$$es in the Cotton Bowl?...or when we bust TAMU's @$$es in 07' & 08'?

 

[Dwinstitles]

First round KO

facts

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I totally disagree. Florida, particularly South Florida, is better. A 3 star from SoFla is better than any 4 star, and a lot of 5 star players wherever they're from. Forever I've held that Texas players aren't all they're cracked up to be. Forever, UTex dominated recruiting in Tx, including back when we embarrassed them in the bowl game. I've always felt that the really good Tx players are those who go elsewhere. Case in point, a certain Cane linebacker.

How are the South Florida 3 stars working out for FAU and FIU?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

So Texas didn't have HS coaches when we bust UT's @$$es in the Cotton Bowl?...or when we bust TAMU's @$$es in 07' & 08'?

That is not what hes saying.

Hes saying Texas HS's have the best weight rooms, coaches, etc. etc.

Its kind of like when you see the rich catholic school kids in HS that dominate because there parents paid for 1 on 1 coaching since they were 4 years old. Been eating great diets since they were born. Started getting one on one weight lifting coaches since the age of 11. etc. etc. Then you have a kid from the hood who never had any of that, but when they get to college. All things equal they dominate those rich kids, because they had the talent, but the rich kids had the training advantage.

 

[CaneDog66]

The way the system is moving, players begin testing at an earlier and earlier age. It benefits the player who grew to be 90% percentile in height, weight, speed by the 9th or 10th grade. They get on the radar sooner. They get more offers. They even may get more training opportunities.

Yet, by the time they're seniors, let's say Player A is 80% of what you project him to be at the college level. But, there's a "late bloomer" (I'm hesitant to use that term for a 17 year old), Player B, who grew late or even still has room to grow in their senior season and in college. Player B may have the same or even higher potential than Player A, but we're late to the offer party or never offer at all.

Sure, perhaps because Player B had a huge Senior season the Star Ranking system covered their asses by making him a late rising 4 star or leave him as a 3 star, but we (the Canes) didn't focus on that kid enough. I'm not saying you can make an entire roster this way, because of the risk involved, but there should be specific room made for these types. One of the first times I found this process bizarre was watching Texas "lock up" their recruiting classes almost a year in advance about 20 years ago.

Now, I see this process happening in Florida more often. Especially with early signing period playing a role in today's process. Zion Nelson is a positive example of us projecting out a kid. Even if he doesn't become a contributor this year, he projects as one next year or at least in his career.

If I were running a college player personnel department, I'd keep a database of guys who (a) switched sports late (especially basketball to football), (b) didn't test at a camp till late, (c) had some unusual growth spurt after 10th or 11th grade, (d) switched positions or project to a totally different position (e.g. Florida QBs who'd make better Safeties or WRs), etc., etc. I'd try to beat the bag teams by unearthing as many late blooming gems as I could find. Even if they don't become significant contributors till they're RS Sophomores, you can balance that out with the more polished recruits.

And compliment it with Portal players as well. With kids changing their minds like the wind these days, it would behoove us to remain diligent in this new realm. If we can snag 1-2yr players who are moving due to playing time or other reasons, why not? Think of it like a redshirt situation with them sitting out a year due to not already having a degree. Or, go after immediate eligible players via the Portal to augment the recruiting class you just signed. Manolo is going to have to be super creative given the high dollar bag game we are fighting against.

 

[CaneDog66]

If the state of Florida spent the amount of money that Texas does on high school football, You'd never recruit anybody form any other state ever again. Public school coaches in Texas actually make money unlike public school coaches in Florida. A majority of the coaches at Florida public schools, outside of the head coach are volunteers. That's why there's so many incredibly talented but raw kids coming out of Florida, especially south Florida.

And a good reason they steer kids to certain schools. They’re getting kickbacks to do so from those aligned to certain universities. Perhaps if they were paid for performance their focus would be on developing and improving their players as such that when they got to college there wouldn’t be, in some cases, huge disparities in players at similar positions.

 

[DTP]

How are the South Florida 3 stars working out for FAU and FIU?

Pretty well. Both programs are experiencing success at previously unheard of levels. TBH, their best recruits are on the low end of the 3 star range. They're picking the leftovers after the big 3, UCF/USF, and pretty much every P5 team get their fill. Most of their teams consists of 2 star players or lower. I believe FAU has two 4 star guys on their roster, FIU has three.

A three star south Florida kid isn't better than a 5 star kid from another state for the most part but I'd bet more 3 star kids from Florida make it to the league than any other state.

 

[DTP]

And a good reason they steer kids to certain schools. They’re getting kickbacks to do so from those aligned to certain universities. Perhaps if they were paid for performance their focus would be on developing and improving their players as such that when they got to college there wouldn’t be, in some cases, huge disparities in players at similar positions.

A lot of "random dudes from the neighborhood" who are buddies with the head coach get assistant coaching positions at some of these schools. Make of that what you will.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Pretty well. Both programs are experiencing success at previously unheard of levels. TBH, their best recruits are on the low end of the 3 star range. They're picking the leftovers after the big 3, UCF/USF, and pretty much every P5 team get their fill. Most of their teams consists of 2 star players or lower. I believe FAU has two 4 star guys on their roster, FIU has three.

A three star south Florida kid isn't better than a 5 star kid from another state for the most part but I'd bet more 3 star kids from Florida make it to the league than any other state.

Well if you consider missing a bowl or losing to ******* Indiana as "pretty well" then we have different definitions of the term. I guess if that is your goal then sure getting mainly 3 stars from Florida will certainly have us perform "pretty well". The majority of FAU and FIUs players are 3 and 4 stars. They make up more than half of their team composite rankings.

If you want to talk UCF and USF. USF was barely bowl elligible last year and got man handled by a ton of G5 teams.
UCF beats all the G5 teams and a handful of bottom feeder P5 teams. If you want the highlight of our season to be beating Pitt or beating an Auburn team that doesn't want to be playing a G5 team that has a ton of talent sitting. Then sure lets stack the squad with florida 3 stars.

I have no idea if you are right with your last statement, but I wouldn't bet against it. However, that really isn't the point. The point is if you stack a team full of florida 3 stars and go against a team stacked with 4 stars the 3 star team is going to lose.