Coker..Shannon..Golden

[Category81]

Considering the sad state of affairs our team is in I'm curious to get opinions, do you guys think we would of been better off keeping one of the previous two coaches over Al?

I know they each had their various shortcomings its just hard for me to imagine them doing that much worse than Al and his Temple crew.

 

[Tad Footeball]

We would have been better off shutting down the program for a decade.

 

[SFbayCane]

No.

The critical mistakes made by UM management were as follows:

* Giving away the store to Larry Coker in his contract extension in 2004. Many of us here were questioning if Coker was the right man to take the program forward, yet all we heard from UM was that Larry is the man. They offered him a buyout clause that was counter to UM's best interests.

* Not firing coker after the 2005 season. At that point it was evident to EVERYONE paying attention that UM needed to make a change. It was donna's decision to give larry another year.

* hiring Randy. Im still blown away by this one. HAs anyone here ever heard Randy Shannon speak? Could you imagine being alone in an interview with him and coming away thinking that he is the right person to be the face of UM football?? This was vintage donna. She loves her some yes-men. Just a horrible hire.

* Giving away the store to al golden in his contract extension. Why?? The guy had no other offers and limited market value, yet donna chose to give him a ten year extension with a large buyout clause. Just bad business by UM. Such a mom and pop operation.

* Not firing golden after the 2014 season. - Do you see a pattern beginning to emerge here?

 

[drifters1234]

in hindsight, keeping Randy for at least one more year would have made us better, bc we likely would have pulled Teddy Bridgewater. A stud like that can mask a lot of deficiencies.

But the bottom line, both Shannon and Golden are epically horrific D1 head coaches. They are flat out incompetent. I just didn't think anyone could be worse than Shannon, and Golden has proven me wrong.

 

[Category81]

Point well received SFbay

 

[jaxtheknife]

Larry was a better oc than faildone and Randy was a better dc than faildone so there's that...faildone is better at face stuffing and stupid catch phrases

 

[CANE4LIFE]

For me the killer was hiring Shannon. Shannon was simply not qualified and was a mistake. It set the program back tremendously, and Golden was just a continuation of that mediocrity. UM was coming off a monster run when Coker was let go. He obviously was not up to the task of maintaining an elite program. But instead of going out and hiring a top gun coach, at a time when UM was paying pretty well, someone like Gary Patterson, who would have been a MONSTER at Miami, and could have been had back then, they went with the cheap and easy pick. Yes he was a former Cane, and had the heart warming "hard knock life" story and all that, but there was NOTHING Shannon had ever exhibited to suggest he was HC material. Even as a DC, he was reclusive, weird with the media, his recruiting was questionable, he had no real strong pedigree beyond bouncing around a few places as a position coach. Wasn't like he had been Jimmy Johnson's right hand man, or learned at the right hand of a top coach.

They gambled on Shannon, hoping that it was all a matter of a local/Miami former Cane who could keep the local recruits home and it would all work out. Instead Shannon had no ability to recruit quality assistants, was lost as an HC, his recruiting beyond his one big class was uneven and got progressively worse, and it just dug us deeper and deeper into the hole. By the time he was canned, UM had been out of the "Elite Spotlight" for so long, that getting a big fish to bite on the job was probably a long shot, so they had to go with the "up and coming young HC" route.

All told Golden seemed on paper to be a decent choice. Obviously he has failed miserably. But not having replaced Coker with a top notch HC to keep the program running strong is what really dug the hole. Golden has been a total continuation of the Shannon mess. I mean its been almost identical in terms of results. Only difference is Golden is better with the media, in public and speaking, and the Shapiro mess got him a deeper extension that has obviously made it harder to can him.

 

[SFbayCane]

Point well received SFbay

Thanks.

Please note that I do NOT include Coker's hiring as a mistake. Hiring Coker was the right move. It was the extension and more to the point, the terms of the extension that hurt UM. It factored into why he was kept for 2006.


I always suggest that people learn about a man named Tom Jurich. He is the Athletic Director at the University of Louisville. He's widely regarded as the best AD in college athletics. His line of coaching hires since his arrival at UL in 1997 has been legendary. What's most critical IMO about Jurich is his public insistence that no coach gets a buyout clause in their contract. He's been quoted several times saying (in regard to buyout clauses in coaching contracts), "Why should we have to pay to get rid of a guy who isn't doing his job?"

Just as college coaches clinic with each other in the off season, perhaps blake james should spend some time with Tom Jurich and see what he can learn from the man.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Not for nothing, but U of L is hardly a school you can compare with UM. UL is a glorified commuter school that has basically sold its soul and put all its chips into becoming a major player in big time college athletics. They don't really seem to care about much else other than doing whatever it takes to become and remain relevant in big time sports. The university itself seems to have made that its top priority, and that's where a ton of its resources go.

UM is not that school.

You can debate whether that's a good thing or not, that's not what Im here to argue. But U of L and UM do not share the same priorities.

 

[Category81]

When Golden gets canned, I mean its inevitable at this point I would hope. Do you guys feel he's leaving the cupboard in decent shape for the next coach or are we looking at a similar situation to the dumpster fire Shannon left behind?

 

[SFbayCane]

Not for nothing, but U of L is hardly a school you can compare with UM. UL is a glorified commuter school that has basically sold its soul and put all its chips into becoming a major player in big time college athletics. They don't really seem to care about much else other than doing whatever it takes to become and remain relevant in big time sports. The university itself seems to have made that its top priority, and that's where a ton of its resources go.

UM is not that school.

You can debate whether that's a good thing or not, that's not what Im here to argue. But U of L and UM do not share the same priorities.

Even though I'd like to debate your assessment of The Ville, its not really pertinent to the discussion here. I only mention UL because of Tom Jurich and his policy of not agreeing to buyout clauses in coaching contracts. Are you suggesting that UM could not have gotten coker, shannon or golden to agree to a contract without a buyout? Each of them took the UM gig as a promotional move. Wasnt that enough for UM to offer?

 

[SFbayCane]

When Golden gets canned, I mean its inevitable at this point I would hope. Do you guys feel he's leaving the cupboard in decent shape for the next coach or are we looking at a similar situation to the dumpster fire Shannon left behind?

Golden does a lot of things well. He runs a pretty good program, develops players and recruits hard. Really, about the only thing al doesnt do is...... well, ..... win. Its very strange to see a guy who is sooooo good at the process and is horrible in generating results. Yet his entire career proves this out. (he's entering year 10 as a head coach)

But to answer your question - the program will be better off when golden is let go after the 2015 season than it was after Coker or Randy departed.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Not for nothing, but U of L is hardly a school you can compare with UM. UL is a glorified commuter school that has basically sold its soul and put all its chips into becoming a major player in big time college athletics. They don't really seem to care about much else other than doing whatever it takes to become and remain relevant in big time sports. The university itself seems to have made that its top priority, and that's where a ton of its resources go.

UM is not that school.

You can debate whether that's a good thing or not, that's not what Im here to argue. But U of L and UM do not share the same priorities.

Even though I'd like to debate your assessment of The Ville, its not really pertinent to the discussion here. I only mention UL because of Tom Jurich and his policy of not agreeing to buyout clauses in coaching contracts. Are you suggesting that UM could not have gotten coker, shannon or golden to agree to a contract without a buyout? Each of them took the UM gig as a promotional move. Wasnt that enough for UM to offer?

Oh I have absolutely been a proponent of tough/low buyouts for our HCs. There was NO F*CKING reason Coker should have had such a sweet deal. There was NO ONE about to poach him away. I have always agreed on that issue and it was a horrible mistake. Same with Shannon, although honestly, we don't know what the terms of his buyout was, and it was not reputed to be very big.

Golden, unfortunately, had us by the balls. I mean big media was talking "death penalty" back then, and his agent cut him a sweet deal. UM obviously panicked, and ****** made out like a bandit. Otherwise I don't think the terms would have been nearly as onerous, and he would probably have been gone by now.

 

[SFbayCane]

Golden, unfortunately, had us by the balls. I mean big media was talking "death penalty" back then, and his agent cut him a sweet deal. UM obviously panicked, and ****** made out like a bandit. Otherwise I don't think the terms would have been nearly as onerous, and he would probably have been gone by now.

I begrudgingly agree to an extent. Golden did have a bit more "hand" in his negotiations. That said, donna and kirby holcutt once again acted from a position of weakness. A ten year extension???? Are you ******* kidding me?? How many D1 coaches stay in one university for a decade?? I'd guess less than 7%.

 

[mdhhdm]

Shannon hiring was the turning point. He was our football version of Perry Clark. Just awful and remember his OC of Pat Nix. Brutal.

 

[Roe 15th]

No.

The critical mistakes made by UM management were as follows:

* Giving away the store to Larry Coker in his contract extension in 2004. Many of us here were questioning if Coker was the right man to take the program forward, yet all we heard from UM was that Larry is the man. They offered him a buyout clause that was counter to UM's best interests.

* Not firing coker after the 2005 season. At that point it was evident to EVERYONE paying attention that UM needed to make a change. It was donna's decision to give larry another year.

* hiring Randy. Im still blown away by this one. HAs anyone here ever heard Randy Shannon speak? Could you imagine being alone in an interview with him and coming away thinking that he is the right person to be the face of UM football?? This was vintage donna. She loves her some yes-men. Just a horrible hire.

* Giving away the store to al golden in his contract extension. Why?? The guy had no other offers and limited market value, yet donna chose to give him a ten year extension with a large buyout clause. Just bad business by UM. Such a mom and pop operation.

* Not firing golden after the 2014 season. - Do you see a pattern beginning to emerge here?

I agree with most of everything you said except the speaking part on Randy.....what that has to do with coaching?? Al can speak very well.....

 

[Muecane]

When Golden gets canned, I mean its inevitable at this point I would hope. Do you guys feel he's leaving the cupboard in decent shape for the next coach or are we looking at a similar situation to the dumpster fire Shannon left behind?

Golden does a lot of things well. He runs a pretty good program, develops players and recruits hard. Really, about the only thing al doesnt do is...... well, ..... win. Its very strange to see a guy who is sooooo good at the process and is horrible in generating results. Yet his entire career proves this out. (he's entering year 10 as a head coach)

But to answer your question - the program will be better off when golden is let go after the 2015 season than it was after Coker or Randy departed.

Agree with your assessment somewhat. Golden's main 2 problems that's keeping him from being a great coach is not firing his assistant and position coaches when needed and not trusting his players and letting them do what the do best. Oh and a 3rd would be he is too conservative and plays not to lose.

 

[kccanefan]

Hiring Shannon. In addition to that Donna hired a consultant for the coaching search to only hire within a failed regime. She has been the real problem. Sickening what she has done to our program.

 

[TC7D]

When Golden gets canned, I mean its inevitable at this point I would hope. Do you guys feel he's leaving the cupboard in decent shape for the next coach or are we looking at a similar situation to the dumpster fire Shannon left behind?

Golden does a lot of things well. He runs a pretty good program, develops players and recruits hard. Really, about the only thing al doesnt do is...... well, ..... win. Its very strange to see a guy who is sooooo good at the process and is horrible in generating results. Yet his entire career proves this out. (he's entering year 10 as a head coach)

But to answer your question - the program will be better off when golden is let go after the 2015 season than it was after Coker or Randy departed.

100% correct. It's strange because he really does build a lot of these guys into NFL caliber players with his program. He is a good guy too, he runs a real clean program. To be honest, he's really only a defense scheme and real coordinator (and some position coaches) change away from competing for ACC titles and maybe more. Such a shame that he's so hard headed and reluctant to change. It will cost him big in the end.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

in hindsight, keeping Randy for at least one more year would have made us better, bc we likely would have pulled Teddy Bridgewater. A stud like that can mask a lot of deficiencies.

But the bottom line, both Shannon and Golden are epically horrific D1 head coaches. They are flat out incompetent. I just didn't think anyone could be worse than Shannon, and Golden has proven me wrong.

Bridgewater was wavering long before Shannon got fired. He was not coming here. Firing Randy was the right move. Hiring Golden was not.