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CJ Bailey needs to come home

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Canedude08 said:
We also see how overrated Mendoza is(He's going to get an NFL GM and coach FIRED), and how many of you are so desperate to be "Right", you'll overlook everything to the contrary. The young man is a very good collegiate QB that won a Heisman in the weakest Heisman field in two generations.

There are far too many superior QBs on the market, who are proven difference makers, for Miami to settle on Bailey, especially coming off of a CFP run, where Miami will have a ton of leverage due to proof of concept FINALLY COMING THROUGH. Miami has built a legit program, this isn't a case where Miami will have to pay the "Suck Tax", this is a "You are the missing piece, look at how it worked out for Cam and Carson" situation.
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Problem is there aren’t a lot of superiors QBs on the market. Some talent, but no one without a flaw or two. Programs are gonna overpay & take gambles.
 
DMoney said:
We heard the same thing about Mendoza. Then he jumped in the Portal and immediately got a big rating from 247. The national opinion was higher than the local view.

This board has a weird thing with local guys. This time last year, people wanted to push Fletcher out for Oregon’s sixth-string running back. They said Bryce Fitzgerald was “too slow” and a Columbus special. It sounds absurd, but the threads are all there. That’s not even getting to the Cuban Emory.

If someone from Texas had Bailey’s same numbers and measurables at 19, everyone would love him. There is a perception of local bias that has no basis in reality.
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I appreciate your response. Couple of thoughts:

I am not “the board”, you are not “the board”. Where a quarterback comes from is completely irrelevant to me. However, as you stated, the board tends to slant when it comes to locality — but in both directions. There are a lot of voices, you chief among them, who champion local guys. I don’t have a problem with that, in fact, I think it’s pretty freaking great.

The problem is when being from South Florida is treated as an attribute by itself. It is not, nor is it a detractor. Once again: it is utterly irrelevant where they come from, all that matters is what they can do.

Mendoza is an interesting comparison, especially because he was not all that highly sought after. The guy ended up at Indiana, which in hindsight looks like he’s desired by one of the best programs in the country. Last December that was not the case. Was IU somewhat well respected for their best season in decades, of course. But nobody was going, “oh no, Cignetti the QB whisperer got Mendoza, my God what did we miss?” In hindsight he was better than Beck, but it was not tht obvious a year ago.

Bailey will not be highly coveted nationally, not with the number of talented arms in the portal this cycle. Not that I really care about what everyone else thinks, I am going purely off of the facts of this player to form my opinion. He isn’t good enough to where this program has gotten.

I would invite you to respond to the other aspects of his game I mentioned, which are far more substantive and concerning. I’m not inviting you to agree with me, but your perspective on those will speak a lot louder than your perspective on where he’s from.

Because that doesn’t matter.
 
Canedude08 said:
We also see how overrated Mendoza is(He's going to get an NFL GM and coach FIRED), and how many of you are so desperate to be "Right", you'll overlook everything to the contrary. The young man is a very good collegiate QB that won a Heisman in the weakest Heisman field in two generations.

There are far too many superior QBs on the market, who are proven difference makers, for Miami to settle on Bailey, especially coming off of a CFP run, where Miami will have a ton of leverage due to proof of concept FINALLY COMING THROUGH. Miami has built a legit program, this isn't a case where Miami will have to pay the "Suck Tax", this is a "You are the missing piece, look at how it worked out for Cam and Carson" situation.
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Who are these superior difference maker QBs that are slam dunks? They all have issues. Cam Ward ain’t out there.
 
Jonnyblaze said:
Who are these superior difference maker QBs that are slam dunks? They all have issues. Cam Ward ain’t out there.
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No one is a slam dunk. Hoover (who I have championed since game 1 this year) has thrown too many picks in his career. But he's thrown far more TDs. He's accurate. He's got a ton of starts. He'd be playing behind a much better line here. He'd likely have better, deeper skill players.

It's fairly easy to make the argument that his INTs would be reduced here, and that he'd be throwing just as many TDs, while asked to do less in terms of winning a game by himself.

While not a slam dunk, a guy like Hoover is a **** good bet to succeed at Miami.
 
IndayArtHauz said:
I appreciate your response. Couple of thoughts:

I am not “the board”, you are not “the board”. Where a quarterback comes from is completely irrelevant to me. However, as you stated, the board tends to slant when it comes to locality — but in both directions. There are a lot of voices, you chief among them, who champion local guys. I don’t have a problem with that, in fact, I think it’s pretty freaking great.

The problem is when being from South Florida is treated as an attribute by itself. It is not, nor is it a detractor. Once again: it is utterly irrelevant where they come from, all that matters is what they can do.

Mendoza is an interesting comparison, especially because he was not all that highly sought after. The guy ended up at Indiana, which in hindsight looks like he’s desired by one of the best programs in the country. Last December that was not the case. Was IU somewhat well respected for their best season in decades, of course. But nobody was going, “oh no, Cignetti the QB whisperer got Mendoza, my God what did we miss?” In hindsight he was better than Beck, but it was not tht obvious a year ago.

Bailey will not be highly coveted nationally, not with the number of talented arms in the portal this cycle. Not that I really care about what everyone else thinks, I am going purely off of the facts of this player to form my opinion. He isn’t good enough to where this program has gotten.

I would invite you to respond to the other aspects of his game I mentioned, which are far more substantive and concerning. I’m not inviting you to agree with me, but your perspective on those will speak a lot louder than your perspective on where he’s from.

Because that doesn’t matter.
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The question is "Is Mendoza significantly better than Beck?" I don't think people watch tape, nor look at the overall picture, they just jerk themselves off on statlines. Don't forget that a majority of Mendoza's production came against pure trash, he was middling, to awful against decent teams. Beck outperformed Mendoza in every major passing category this year, AGAINST RANKED TEAMS. Mendoza was a steadier hand, but the difference between the two isn't nearly as wide as one would believe, once you move beyond the stats.

That said, what hurt Beck was that when things went sideways, they really went sideways. You look at Beck's season, outside of the SMU and Louisville games(Where he was turnover prone), he was fine, and is starting to peak, now that the run game is showing signs of consistent life.
 
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CJ is not my first choice I just don’t think Soresby is truly available so he’s out. Mestemaker would be the next logical #2 but again I assume he’s going to OKSTATE. If those two are gone, Leavitt is gone through summer or around summer and Raiola seems like he may be heading to Oregon. If Hoover is also going to Indiana you really are banking on Leavitt’s foot being OK or Rocco Becht not following his coach to a better program in PSU.

- Soresby TTU
- Hoover IU
- Mestemaker OSU
- Becht - PSU
- Raiola - Oregon
If those 5 things happen who are we waiting on?
 
Jonnyblaze said:
Who are these superior difference maker QBs that are slam dunks? They all have issues. Cam Ward ain’t out there.
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There's issues and there's legit limitations. Even when Cam came to Miami, he had flaws, no one is saying that there's a perfect QB out there. That said, I would prefer Miami go after someone with a higher floor, because with the talent returning next year, and the likely portal additions, you need someone that you can depend on, not someone that may be something. Mestemaker, Leavitt(Provided the medicals are good), Sorsby, even Hoover and Byrum Brown are SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bailey. Bailey is a solid "Well, we struck out with the high end guys, this is a legit fallback option" choice. You don't go after him as your first choice.
 
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Brains said:
No one is a slam dunk. Hoover (who I have championed since game 1 this year) has thrown too many picks in his career. But he's thrown far more TDs. He's accurate. He's got a ton of starts. He'd be playing behind a much better line here. He'd likely have better, deeper skill players.

It's fairly easy to make the argument that his INTs would be reduced here, and that he'd be throwing just as many TDs, while asked to do less in terms of winning a game by himself.

While not a slam dunk, a guy like Hoover is a **** good bet to succeed at Miami.
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I like Hoover, seems to be a quality dude and he has the talent. He's a pure air raid guy and that's what I want for Dawson. Let Dawson really work this system, let him cook with a guy that is comfortable in the system.
 
Lance Roffers said:
I typically stay out of debates but I love ball, so I'll bite here.

Any chance you can tell me why you feel this way? I'm not looking to play gotcha, I'm looking to understand why so many feel this way and you seem like a good representative of the group.
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Lance, thank you, but i dount im a good representative of the group. Im just a fan. There are 3 qbs i like better. Sorsby, Leavitt and Mestermaker. Thats just my personal opinion. Bailey would be in my top 5. Id have the Hoover kid in there as well. Again Lance, im just a fan and im in no way is my opinion based on a deep dive.
 
IndayArtHauz said:
If he was from any other place in the country, he’s not even on our radar.

Multi-pick games against Duke, ND, and Miami. In two of those three games he threw 3 of them.

He was absolute trash against us, managing an unplayable 16.7 QBR. Half the season he was in the 60s or lower.

He is very accurate against bad or mediocre teams. Well, except Memphis and Pitt. Or of course the teams that he threw the ball to multiple times.

We would be inserting a steel-reinforced ceiling above our heads if this is who we choose as our QB1 next year. With Miami’s level of resources he should not be in the conversation.
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We got our guy! SMU won’t know what hit them!
 
After Mendoza last year and me taking a hard stance of **** that it’s just a Columbus mafia strong arming the staff to get their boy to be the QB…

Yeah **** it if Bailey wants to come home do it… maybe not for 4mill but a good deal. He can sling the rock he proved that in HS and he has in college too… he looked decent with an actual weapon in Conception running routes but this year he looked to have a bad oline and no real weapons.

Bonus points he can scoot… I feel like that’s been a missing dynamic we haven’t had since King was here. Keeping defenses honest with RPO and option runs.
 
IndayArtHauz said:
I appreciate your response. Couple of thoughts:

I am not “the board”, you are not “the board”. Where a quarterback comes from is completely irrelevant to me. However, as you stated, the board tends to slant when it comes to locality — but in both directions. There are a lot of voices, you chief among them, who champion local guys. I don’t have a problem with that, in fact, I think it’s pretty freaking great.

The problem is when being from South Florida is treated as an attribute by itself. It is not, nor is it a detractor. Once again: it is utterly irrelevant where they come from, all that matters is what they can do.

Mendoza is an interesting comparison, especially because he was not all that highly sought after. The guy ended up at Indiana, which in hindsight looks like he’s desired by one of the best programs in the country. Last December that was not the case. Was IU somewhat well respected for their best season in decades, of course. But nobody was going, “oh no, Cignetti the QB whisperer got Mendoza, my God what did we miss?” In hindsight he was better than Beck, but it was not tht obvious a year ago.

Bailey will not be highly coveted nationally, not with the number of talented arms in the portal this cycle. Not that I really care about what everyone else thinks, I am going purely off of the facts of this player to form my opinion. He isn’t good enough to where this program has gotten.

I would invite you to respond to the other aspects of his game I mentioned, which are far more substantive and concerning. I’m not inviting you to agree with me, but your perspective on those will speak a lot louder than your perspective on where he’s from.

Because that doesn’t matter.
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Points are well stated & with merit. That said, Indiana had established itself this time a year ago in part on the back of another portal QB. So Cignetti had credibility & clearly knew what he was doing.
As for the current portal group, it’s a bunch of decent yet flawed characters. Programs desperate for a QB are going to vastly overpay & take chances.
It’s accurate that folks twist themselves into knots on the South Florida thing. So Bailey or Mendoza being local should be irrelevant. That’s where you have to trust the OC & staff to identify best QB for our system. Hit home runs with Ward & Beck, so ultimately riding with them over opinions of folks on a message board - though appreciate the insights & banter.
 
Everyone so vehemently opposed to Bailey needs to say what realistic alternative we have.


Tier 1
1. Sorsby: Likely TT or NFL
2. Mestmaker: Likely OKst
3. Sam Leavitt: injury concern but I'd take the gamble

Tier 2
4. Josh Hoover: likely indiana
5. CJ Bailey: we'd be the clear cut favorite
6. Dylan Riaola: no idea where the smoke if for him. also no thanks

Tier 3 - from here down no one is worthy imo
7. Rocco Becht
8. DJ Lagway
9. Beau Pribula
10. Byrum Brown

Tier 4
11. Kenny Minchey
12. Adien Chiles
13. Colton Joseph
14. Aaron Philo
 
OrangeSlidez said:
Leavitt put up 80 yrds again miss st with 2 picks. Sorsby put up 60 yrds & a pick against Nebraska. It happens, and against far worse teams
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I don’t think people have accepted how mediocre college QBs are and will be moving forward.

We got spoiled because CFB had access to a plethora of 7th year guys due to COVID for a 3 year period basically. Those days are done.

We need to accept the fact we won’t have access to that type of talent depth + experience ever again.

Last year was the first real year of noticing the mediocrity. The selection pool is going to be vastly different moving forward.
 
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Canedude08 said:
There's issues and there's legit limitations. Even when Cam came to Miami, he had flaws, no one is saying that there's a perfect QB out there. That said, I would prefer Miami go after someone with a higher floor, because with the talent returning next year, and the likely portal additions, you need someone that you can depend on, not someone that may be something. Mestemaker, Leavitt(Provided the medicals are good), Sorsby, even Hoover and Byrum Brown are SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bailey. Bailey is a solid "Well, we struck out with the high end guys, this is a legit fallback option" choice. You don't go after him as your first choice.
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Those guys you list are “significantly” better based on what? Eye test? It’s a projection either way. You never really know. Before the season started the vast majority of people nationwide would have said Arch and Klubnick were “better” than all of them.

I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong btw. There probably are better options than Bailey. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I just don’t think you can make definitive statements on who is better because none of them have ever played in the conditions we currently have.
 
IndayArtHauz said:
I appreciate your response. Couple of thoughts:

I am not “the board”, you are not “the board”. Where a quarterback comes from is completely irrelevant to me. However, as you stated, the board tends to slant when it comes to locality — but in both directions. There are a lot of voices, you chief among them, who champion local guys. I don’t have a problem with that, in fact, I think it’s pretty freaking great.

The problem is when being from South Florida is treated as an attribute by itself. It is not, nor is it a detractor. Once again: it is utterly irrelevant where they come from, all that matters is what they can do.

Mendoza is an interesting comparison, especially because he was not all that highly sought after. The guy ended up at Indiana, which in hindsight looks like he’s desired by one of the best programs in the country. Last December that was not the case. Was IU somewhat well respected for their best season in decades, of course. But nobody was going, “oh no, Cignetti the QB whisperer got Mendoza, my God what did we miss?” In hindsight he was better than Beck, but it was not tht obvious a year ago.

Bailey will not be highly coveted nationally, not with the number of talented arms in the portal this cycle. Not that I really care about what everyone else thinks, I am going purely off of the facts of this player to form my opinion. He isn’t good enough to where this program has gotten.

I would invite you to respond to the other aspects of his game I mentioned, which are far more substantive and concerning. I’m not inviting you to agree with me, but your perspective on those will speak a lot louder than your perspective on where he’s from.

Because that doesn’t matter.
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I’m happy for you.

Or, sorry that happened.
 
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