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Canes bs Tigers - ACC Championship - 2pm ESPNU/ACCN

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WanderFranco said:
He was using the results of this weekend to talk about next weekend. You misinterpreted what he was saying. Not the end of the world.

This weekend showed that we can't afford to go to a game four. And we definitely can't lose game one or two and turn it into a five game weekend.
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Actually I have been talking about. It is also imperative we win the first 2 games next weekend. We would also get a day off. After that we can win a 4th game because whomever we play is in real trouble.

This tournament's format sucks and really sucks for us in our current situation. Clemson's staff was rested. Darden is their Sunday starter. You have to get good outings out of your starters. We did not.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
What does Wake have to do with Miami? Nothing.

Walt got 7 outs on Thursday. Would’ve been no issue for him to try to get 9 today if he wouldn’t have thrown Friday and Saturday. You also would’ve had all the other options for the 7th, that pitched friday, if they wouldn’t have.

You keep quoting numbers of pitches, but fail to take into account warmups. If you’ve thrown 2-3 straight days and only throw 30 pitches total, you’ve actually thrown 60-80. You should never bring in someone 4 straight days.
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Oh good lord, "warmups". THAT is your new argument (which you've never made before). "Warmups".

I've already said that I thought we used Walters too early on Thursday. Other than that, we did a **** good job of handling the pitching.

But, yeah, you're inventing some nonsense about Walters starting the 7th today, IF ONLY HE HADN'T THROWN SO MANY WARMUPS.

What a joke. I've made it incredibly clear that if we had better hitting with men on bases, we don't have any close games and we may not even have to use the bullpen as much.

But sure, "don't" pitch a guy for an elimination game so that he can go extra-long for a game you never play if you don't win the elimination game.

Just when I think I've heard every stupid argument ever made, you shock me.
 
WanderFranco said:
You don’t have to come back if you still have the lead.
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Sure, winning every game 10-0 after scoring 10 runs in the first inning is always ideal. But it doesn't always happen.

We were behind earlier in the game. We came back and took the lead.

But, sure, if you want to argue that was impossible to do, that it was IMPOSSIBLE to erase a 2-run deficit with 2 men on in the eighth and 3 men on in the ninth...

Look, you're the one making all the surrender-monkey arguments. We should have thrown the Friday game and we couldn't possibly come back from 2 runs down today...

Sad.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
He was not, and is not, "being supportive". He said nothing about supporting Arteaga or DiMare after he had already personally attacked another poster nearly ten times.

Don't post that I need to work on my reading when you refuse to acknowledge the actual words that WERE said and the ones that were NOT said.

Feel free to provide all those "supportive" posts. You can't. You won't.
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I know it's hard for you to admit, but you are wrong. Own it, bad bad look for you.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
Actually I have been talking about. It is also imperative we win the first 2 games next weekend. We would also get a day off. After that we can win a 4th game because whomever we play is in real trouble.

This tournament's format sucks and really sucks for us in our current situation. Clemson's staff was rested. Darden is their Sunday starter. You have to get good outings out of your starters. We did not.
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No, we won’t get a day off next weekend. It’s a three day battle. Win three games in three days is the plan.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
It’s amazing the arguments that are being made on here. Just admit you wanted to beat Duke more than you wanted to win the tourney and be done with it.
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Uhhh...no...because it isn't true. It's actually bizarre.

I want to win every game. I'm not a ***** who advocates for throwing a game, because we are soooooo weak we can't possibly handle throwing ONE pitcher for 4 and 1/3 innings when we could have "saved him".

I don't give two ***** about beating Duke "more than" any other goal. I just want to compete. If we lose to Duke, so be it, but I don't want to lose because we started some noodle-arm to "save" Gallo for later.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Sure, winning every game 10-0 after scoring 10 runs in the first inning is always ideal. But it doesn't always happen.

We were behind earlier in the game. We came back and took the lead.

But, sure, if you want to argue that was impossible to do, that it was IMPOSSIBLE to erase a 2-run deficit with 2 men on in the eighth and 3 men on in the ninth...

Look, you're the one making all the surrender-monkey arguments. We should have thrown the Friday game and we couldn't possibly come back from 2 runs down today...

Sad.
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Sure, we could have come back. We also could have not needed to come back. We chose to beat Duke instead.

We went 3-1 either way.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Oh good lord, "warmups". THAT is your new argument (which you've never made before). "Warmups".

I've already said that I thought we used Walters too early on Thursday. Other than that, we did a **** good job of handling the pitching.

But, yeah, you're inventing some nonsense about Walters starting the 7th today, IF ONLY HE HADN'T THROWN SO MANY WARMUPS.

What a joke. I've made it incredibly clear that if we had better hitting with men on bases, we don't have any close games and we may not even have to use the bullpen as much.

But sure, "don't" pitch a guy for an elimination game so that he can go extra-long for a game you never play if you don't win the elimination game.

Just when I think I've heard every stupid argument ever made, you shock me.
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There is no point in arguing if you can’t understand throwing somebody 3-4 days in a row is not smart bc they only threw 10 pitches a day. That’s only half of what they’re actually doing.
 
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txcanes said:
I know it's hard for you to admit, but you are wrong. Own it, bad bad look for you.
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I'm actually not wrong. And you still haven't re-read his crappy porsts to realize that he said NOTHING in defense of our coaching staff, and ONLY went after the poster on personal grounds, having nothing to do with the merits of our pitching decisions.

And it's beyond obvious that NOW he is attacking the staff for their decisions.

I know the loss sucked, but acknowledge that we stranded too many baserunners all tournament long. We had one bad inning of pitching, having NOTHING to do with whether we used Gallo against Duke.

You need to own what actually happened on the field. Men left on bases FAR TOO MANY TIMES for four consecutive games.

You've been a far better and more accurate poster in the past. This is a terrible look for you, not acknowledging the stranding of runners, and defending posters who blame an UNAVOIDABLE OUTCOME on pitching Gallo on Friday.

Sad.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Uhhh...no...because it isn't true. It's actually bizarre.

I want to win every game. I'm not a ***** who advocates for throwing a game, because we are soooooo weak we can't possibly handle throwing ONE pitcher for 4 and 1/3 innings when we could have "saved him".

I don't give two ***** about beating Duke "more than" any other goal. I just want to compete. If we lose to Duke, so be it, but I don't want to lose because we started some noodle-arm to "save" Gallo for later.
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There’s nothing wrong with that mindset as long as you recognize that it makes you weaker on day four.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'm actually not wrong. And you still haven't re-read his crappy porsts to realize that he said NOTHING in defense of our coaching staff, and ONLY went after the poster on personal grounds, having nothing to do with the merits of our pitching decisions.

And it's beyond obvious that NOW he is attacking the staff for their decisions.

I know the loss sucked, but acknowledge that we stranded too many baserunners all tournament long. We had one bad inning of pitching, having NOTHING to do with whether we used Gallo against Duke.

You need to own what actually happened on the field. Men left on bases FAR TOO MANY TIMES for four consecutive games.

You've been a far better and more accurate poster in the past. This is a terrible look for you, not acknowledging the stranding of runners, and defending posters who blame an UNAVOIDABLE OUTCOME on pitching Gallo on Friday.

Sad.
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So I am “attacking” again.

Lots of projecting going on in your posts.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Uhhh...no...because it isn't true. It's actually bizarre.

I want to win every game. I'm not a ***** who advocates for throwing a game, because we are soooooo weak we can't possibly handle throwing ONE pitcher for 4 and 1/3 innings when we could have "saved him".

I don't give two ***** about beating Duke "more than" any other goal. I just want to compete. If we lose to Duke, so be it, but I don't want to lose because we started some noodle-arm to "save" Gallo for later.
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This way of thinking is why Clemson scored 11 runs today.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
It’s amazing the arguments that are being made on here. Just admit you wanted to beat Duke more than you wanted to win the tourney and be done with it.
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How about admitting if we threw the game against Duke we most likely don't have the same team that came out yesterday? Under no circumstances going 1-2 was a favorable outcome. I wouldn't have thrown Walters yesterday but he wasn't coming into the 7th today.

How about we wanted to beat Duke to keep momentum going into the Wake game?

How about they had confidence in Rafe getting through 3-4-5?

So who you throwing after Rafe? Lecq?

We can run hypotheticals all we want but the results are in and it worked out very well.for us.

Most of the folks on here argued the ACC tournament is meaning. Now it matters. Very funny.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'm actually not wrong. And you still haven't re-read his crappy porsts to realize that he said NOTHING in defense of our coaching staff, and ONLY went after the poster on personal grounds, having nothing to do with the merits of our pitching decisions.

And it's beyond obvious that NOW he is attacking the staff for their decisions.

I know the loss sucked, but acknowledge that we stranded too many baserunners all tournament long. We had one bad inning of pitching, having NOTHING to do with whether we used Gallo against Duke.

You need to own what actually happened on the field. Men left on bases FAR TOO MANY TIMES for four consecutive games.

You've been a far better and more accurate poster in the past. This is a terrible look for you, not acknowledging the stranding of runners, and defending posters who blame an UNAVOIDABLE OUTCOME on pitching Gallo on Friday.

Sad.
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Oh I am not defending the stranding of runners, poor baserunning and bad substitutions! Just felt the guy I have bashed for years was posting differently. I will take the time to read again!
 
Pentagon Cane said:
How about admitting if we threw the game against Duke we most likely don't have the same team that came out yesterday? Under no circumstances going 1-2 was a favorable outcome. I wouldn't have thrown Walters yesterday but he was coming into the 7th today.

How about we wanted to beat Duke to keep momentum going into the Wake game?

How about they had confidence in Rafe getting through 3-4-5?

So who you throwing after Rafe Lecq?

We can run hypotheticals all we want but the results are in and it worked out very well.for us.

Most of the folks on here argued the ACC tournament is meaning. Now it matters. Very funny.
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Oh, I’m still not in the camp that the tournament matters. I’ve seen teams win their conference tournament and get bounced 0-2 one week later. And I’ve seen teams not show up for their tournament and make a run in Omaha. Don’t think that I’m suggesting that the tournament matters all of a sudden. But if you’re going to play it, there’s a smart way and there’s a way to eat up all your arms in three days.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
How about admitting if we threw the game against Duke we most likely don't have the same team that came out yesterday? Under no circumstances going 1-2 was a favorable outcome. I wouldn't have thrown Walters yesterday but he wasn't coming into the 7th today.

How about we wanted to beat Duke to keep momentum going into the Wake game?

How about they had confidence in Rafe getting through 3-4-5?

So who you throwing after Rafe? Lecq?

We can run hypotheticals all we want but the results are in and it worked out very well.for us.

Most of the folks on here argued the ACC tournament is meaning. Now it matters. Very funny.
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I’ve always said the ACCT matters. There’s no telling what happens yesterday if the Duke game is a loss. I have a hard time believing that beating Duke got this team over the jump to beat Wake though. In reality it was getting Ligon back and Rosario being really good.

Again all of that stuff is great, I’m not arguing that it’s not. I’m saying it was a choice. And that choice is why Clemson scored 11 runs today and raised the trophy.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
There is no point in arguing if you can’t understand throwing somebody 3-4 days in a row is not smart bc they only threw 10 pitches a day. That’s only half of what they’re actually doing.
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And there's no point in hypothesizing if you can't understand that TORRES was not overused, and WALSH was not overused (and would have had no impact if Villegas catches the ball).

Sure, you're going to keep beating the Gallo/Walters drum. Though Gallo would have been out of the game in the 7th and Walters would not have even been in the game in the 7th.

Keep inventing false equivalencies and hypotheticals that have no meaning.

Torres ****ed up. Villegas ****ed up. Neither of those things have anything to do with pitching Gallo on Friday.

And stop insulting our intelligence with "warmups".

Rafe pitched 2/3 of an inning on Thursday, 1 and 1/3 on Friday, and 1/3 on Saturday.
Laquerica pitched 1 and 1/3 on Thursday, 1/3 on Friday, and 1/3 on Saturday.
I've already acknowledged that Walters pitched too long on Thursday, but he only went 1 inning on Friday and 1 inning on Saturday.

It is ridiculous for you to inflate their pitch counts AS IF THEY ARE STARTERS WHO GO 4 OR 5 INNINGS.

Rafe, Laquerica, and Walters only went longer than one inning ONCE EACH from Thursday to Saturday. Stop acting like they threw 30 or 40 extra warmup pitches because "ups and downs". Stop acting like a pitcher can only throw once a week, or two at most. Stop acting like there were no other options.
 
Ouch. If you can’t understand the impact of warming up day after day after day……
Some things you just keep to yourself.
 
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