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Butch Got Blown Out A Bunch of Times Too

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Emilioooooh said:
The talent level is higher under Manny than it has been in a long time. Our blue chip ratio is trending upwards just like it was under Butch (see below). You gotta give credit where credit is due.

Manny is clearly in over his head. But you can't judge the guy for losing against Bama. Everyone loses against Bama (last year they averaged 48+ points). I'm giving him until the end of the season to show improvement. If we win 10 games or 9 games, including a bowl win, and bring in another solid recruiting class, he will have earned a pass.

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Source: @GojiraCane
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Richt got us the ITF and no sanctions.
Yes, recruiting has been promising as of lately
he also had the portal which no other previous coach had
it is what we doing with the talent and how we are showing vs the big dawgs ..we still cant tackle

we are as far as the top right now as we were under golden
 
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Butch never our coaches anyone while here. What he did do was assemble a massive amount of talent because he was a great evaluator, then surround himself with great assistants who developed it.
 
Miami no longer competes for titles and is unable to win its conference.

The answer to that? Butch Davis gets blown out too
 
SFbayCane said:
@Emilioooooh - We all get the point you're trying to make but comparing the 96-98 teams to any other team is kinda silly. Those teams were partial rosters that were in the process of overcoming NCAA's near-death sentence to UM football.
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Im aware of that but the sanctions speak to the cause of the lack of talent. With that said, the program in both eras lacked talent, albeit for different reasons. And in both eras the team was blown out, usually by ranked teams. And in both eras the fanbase clamored to fire the coach stat (imagine if CIS existed in 98 LOL).

All I'm saying is Manny deserves to be judged for the 2021 season once all the games are played, not after one game vs the best team in all the land. And the reason for that is because we have seen objective improvements, especially in the talent department.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
Butch never our coaches anyone while here. What he did do was assemble a massive amount of talent because he was a great evaluator, then surround himself with great assistants who developed it.
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You can make the argument that Manny is following Butch's blueprint. Our freshmen and sophomores look legit. His recruiting schtick appears to be working. Let him fill the cupboard and then hand over the keys to Urban Meyer in early 2023 or 2024. Look at what Urban did with Zook's recruits.
 
YUMU said:
it was not a bad team. It was a bad coached team with a sick coach... most players recruited by him as DC

then Manny made his best move and brought us Mr Dan Enos.
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LOL that is some serious revisionist history right there.
 
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Emilioooooh said:
Im aware of that but the sanctions speak to the cause of the lack of talent. With that said, the program in both eras lacked talent, albeit for different reasons. And in both eras the team was blown out, usually by ranked teams. And in both eras the fanbase clamored to fire the coach stat (imagine if CIS existed in 98 LOL).

All I'm saying is Manny deserves to be judged for the 2021 season once all the games are played, not after one game vs the best team in all the land. And the reason for that is because we have seen objective improvements, especially in the talent department.
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Certainly reasonable counter points on your end.

I will say that I've often felt that Butch would have gotten much LESS hatred if the internet existed back then. We would have been able to see further into the program that what the Sunday Miami Herald articles told us. We would have seen and heard more about the growing amount of talent on the roster and the way things were progressing behind the scenes.
 
SFbayCane said:
Certainly reasonable counter points on your end.

I will say that I've often felt that Butch would have gotten much LESS hatred if the internet existed back then. We would have been able to see further into the program that what the Sunday Miami Herald articles told us. We would have seen and heard more about the growing amount of talent on the roster and the way things were progressing behind the scenes.
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Much LESS?

No way man.
 
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Let me see if I have your "reasoning" understood. So, because Butch had some wretched losses in his early seasons, then every coach who comes after him should be assumed to be doing Butch-like things in the background and to necessarily be just around the corner from having college football's next monster program? GTFOH with this nonsense. What Butch did, and how he did it, never happened before and will never happen again. And Manny Diaz (nor anyone else) ain't no Butch of the 90's. And CFB is completely different now, nearly thirty years on.

Your premise that somehow every coach who has dreadful losses should be given a pass and permitted to carry on (apparently forever) simply because Davis accomplished a near-miracle two and a half decades ago is laughably illogical and stupid.
 
False equivalency.

The Pell Grant scandal crippled the program.

We were using guys that were on baseball and track scholarships, grey shirts to try to be competitive.

The sad thing is, those late 90's teams probably would've been competitive against the 2021 squad. Those guys weren't neccessarily the most talented, but they were **** tough and fought hard on the football field.
 
SFbayCane said:
Certainly reasonable counter points on your end.

I will say that I've often felt that Butch would have gotten much LESS hatred if the internet existed back then. We would have been able to see further into the program that what the Sunday Miami Herald articles told us. We would have seen and heard more about the growing amount of talent on the roster and the way things were progressing behind the scenes.
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I got to see it up close...people don't understand what Butch had to deal with behind the scenes...he was scrutinized beyond belief by the entire BOT minus Dimare and Stewart Miller...the majority of the BOT didn't like Butch..and the feeling was mutual. They literally nit-picked him to Death...Wasn't bad enough that he had the Sanctions thrown in his lap..and then Sports Illustrated's damning cover...Add in Marlin Barnes Murder on campus and it was real tough times...
 
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SFbayCane said:
Certainly reasonable counter points on your end.

I will say that I've often felt that Butch would have gotten much LESS hatred if the internet existed back then. We would have been able to see further into the program that what the Sunday Miami Herald articles told us. We would have seen and heard more about the growing amount of talent on the roster and the way things were progressing behind the scenes.
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That's an interesting viewpoint. At first I was taken aback by it but in a way the reason I'm ok with giving Diaz until the end of the season to evaluate him is precisely because of the things we've seen behind the scenes, especially as of late. I believe in our young players, I believe the talent level is increasing, I believe we have some good assistants, and I believe he is creating a competitive culture that the kids are buying into. If I also see us winning again this year, and if he can continue to bring in good recruits, I'm gonna be OK--not thrilled--with giving him 1 more year.
 
Emilioooooh said:
1996 vs. ECU - 31 - 6 (AT THE OB!)

1997 vs. FSU - 47-0

1998 vs. McNabb - 66-13

1999 vs. Vick - 43-10

Then what happened?
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Butch got a team on probation and had 14 scholarship recruits for a year. Butch played young players and took those blowout losses to get them game ready. We are getting our *** kicker with 6yr seniors
 
Emilioooooh said:
That's an interesting viewpoint. At first I was taken aback by it but in a way the reason I'm ok with giving Diaz until the end of the season to evaluate him is precisely because of the things we've seen behind the scenes, especially as of late. I believe in our young players, I believe the talent level is increasing, I believe we have some good assistants, and I believe he is creating a competitive culture that the kids are buying into. If I also see us winning again this year, and if he can continue to bring in good recruits, I'm gonna be OK--not thrilled--with giving him 1 more year.
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Not one of Manny's assistants (including Manny) would have been on Butch's staff.....NONE....
Besides his unmatched ability to Evaluate and recruit, his ability to put together a Grade A staff was as impressive...
 
The canesman said:
If Butch got the gig instead of manny last night would have been very different.
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I was on grassy listening to our genius fan base lambasting “Botch” for making horrible game time decisions. In fact, it was asserted that he kept us from winning championships. Apparently, after his departure, the talent was able to shine through and we were allowed to dominate.
I stood by Coach Davis at that time and I’ll stand by Coach Diaz now. We were clearly outmatched yesterday, but we have also clearly improved from previous years. Furthermore, Diaz is recruiting at a high level. Recruiting is the life-blood of college football programs and Diaz excels at it. This will translate to more wins over time. As long as he keeps increasing our blue-chip ratio, I’ll keep supporting Manny.
 
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