Butch Davis question

[am1640]

The team's play was subpar. Playcalling, scheme, game/roster management was all over the place

Yeah, I'm sure you could have done a better job with all of the scholarship losses that he had to deal with. He had to nvent ways of getting talented, unheralded guys on the roster, like Santana.

Plus, he improved as he went along and the players never quit on him.

I guess Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick suck too because they once had losing NFL teams and made several coaching blunders. Including Carroll in last year's Super Bowl.

Is that you, Tammy?

Someone asked why Butch was not well liked at one point in time and I answered.

His team's were plagued with these issues before the sanctions took effect all the way through even the beginning of the 2000 season. If you don't remember this, then you have amnesia or were too young to remember.

**** are you talking about?

Washington was our only loss in 2000, with a redshirt freshman QB making his first road start. Washington was highly ranked and had a very good dual-threat QB.

After that, we cleaned house.

Also, in 1999, we ended the season by upsetting 3rd ranked and heavily favored UCLA at the Orange Bowl. Edge ran for over 300 yards and Scott Covington had a big game as well.

I've been watching the Canes since before you were probably born, young buck.

I'm just not gonna bash a guy that had to face the **** that he did without being realistic about it.

Dorsey wasn't a redshirt Fr and although he didn't start he played the lion share of the VT game on the road his freshman season so the whole first true road test excuse at UW is way overblown.

 

[RBhurricane87]

UM fan expectations were much higher back then. Now, UM fans are so starved for crumbs they just want to produce draft picks and line up excuses as to why Butch shouldn't be expected to win the crappy Coastal.

Been a very dramatic change in UM fans over the years. It's gone from "we expect to compete for NCs every year" to "hey, he's better than Mario".

I'm curious, which coaches (realistically) would be on your "short list" if you had to make the hire?

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

 

[deleted3746]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

He's also responsible for losing to inferior teams, and quitting on Miami 1 week before NSD. How soon you forget. Works both ways.

 

[Consigliere]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

Do we bring up UNC?

I think the people who love Butch tend to overlook the obvious. I think those that are skeptical (myself) are concerned with his most recent performance and his gap in employment (among other things).

This hiring, if it goes down, makes me skeptical of the future.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

He's also responsible for losing to inferior teams, and quitting on Miami 1 week before NSD. How soon you forget. Works both ways.

Yeah, his first tenure as a head coach he coRched up a **** load of games. But the fact that 5 of the top 30 most talented teams of all time are directly attributed to him gives him a LOT of leeway IMO. Additionally, he was on staff for two more. Those 7 teams are the only ones from Miami, I might add.

Spoiler

Do I think he's a slam dunk? NO. Do I have concerns? **** yeah. Do you know who our AD is? With that in mind, getting Butch would be a ******* coup. I'm under no illusion that with Butch we're on track to win a title in 2-3 years. But the same would hold true with just about any other coach out there. Urban I could see doing it in a couple years, maybe Saban. Bottom line though, we don't know how Golden has left the program. Seems to be in shambles. Maybe worse. I do know this, you won't have a team or staff full of gossipy *****es like we've had the past 5 years.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

Do we bring up UNC?

I think the people who love Butch tend to overlook the obvious. I think those that are skeptical (myself) are concerned with his most recent performance and his gap in employment (among other things).

This hiring, if it goes down, makes me skeptical of the future.

If I were a UNC fan and if he was potentially going back to UNC I'd give a ****. But I'm not and he's not, so I don't.

I look at what he did at Miami. That's it. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

I'm sure this has been covered at some point, so be gentle. But I'm not that familiar with the real history...

What was the deal last time around that led to flying the "Fire Butch Davis" banner?

I'm trying to understand what the fan sentiment was like, as well as the country/media's perspective. And curious how that situation compares to the recent "Fire Al Golden" movement. Did it seem like a small crowd didn't want him or was it overwhelming like with Al?

Really, I'm looking for some in-depth thoughts from peeps who followed closely back at that time (I was a mere young'n). Just curious. I don't have a good point of reference for that stuff, except for surface-level commentary. It's certainly an interesting and relatively rare circumstance, I think, to want a guy back so badly who was at one point apparently being run out of town.

And for the record, I'm good with Butch coming back if that's the decision.

He's an Avg. coach that was getting below avg. results, losing to less talented opponents. Terrible gameday coach. That's why they flew the banner then.....and why they'll more than likely be flying again in three years.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

He's also responsible for losing to inferior teams, and quitting on Miami 1 week before NSD. How soon you forget. Works both ways.

Yeah, his first tenure as a head coach he coRched up a **** load of games. But the fact that 5 of the top 30 most talented teams of all time are directly attributed to him gives him a LOT of leeway IMO. Additionally, he was on staff for two more. Those 7 teams are the only ones from Miami, I might add.

Spoiler

View attachment 34052

Do I think he's a slam dunk? NO. Do I have concerns? **** yeah. Do you know who our AD is? With that in mind, getting Butch would be a ******* coup. I'm under no illusion that with Butch we're on track to win a title in 2-3 years. But the same would hold true with just about any other coach out there. Urban I could see doing it in a couple years, maybe Saban. Bottom line though, we don't know how Golden has left the program. Seems to be in shambles. Maybe worse. I do know this, you won't have a team or staff full of gossipy *****es like we've had the past 5 years.

Seems to be in shambles? They're 8-4 genius. Trying to create Butch excuses already I see.

 

[Consigliere]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

Do we bring up UNC?

I think the people who love Butch tend to overlook the obvious. I think those that are skeptical (myself) are concerned with his most recent performance and his gap in employment (among other things).

This hiring, if it goes down, makes me skeptical of the future.

If I were a UNC fan and if he was potentially going back to UNC I'd give a ****. But I'm not and he's not, so I don't.

I look at what he did at Miami. That's it. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

Illogical, great.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

Do we bring up UNC?

I think the people who love Butch tend to overlook the obvious. I think those that are skeptical (myself) are concerned with his most recent performance and his gap in employment (among other things).

This hiring, if it goes down, makes me skeptical of the future.

If I were a UNC fan and if he was potentially going back to UNC I'd give a ****. But I'm not and he's not, so I don't.

I look at what he did at Miami. That's it. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

Illogical, great.

Yes, your argument certainly is.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

He's also responsible for losing to inferior teams, and quitting on Miami 1 week before NSD. How soon you forget. Works both ways.

Yeah, his first tenure as a head coach he coRched up a **** load of games. But the fact that 5 of the top 30 most talented teams of all time are directly attributed to him gives him a LOT of leeway IMO. Additionally, he was on staff for two more. Those 7 teams are the only ones from Miami, I might add.

Spoiler

View attachment 34052

Do I think he's a slam dunk? NO. Do I have concerns? **** yeah. Do you know who our AD is? With that in mind, getting Butch would be a ******* coup. I'm under no illusion that with Butch we're on track to win a title in 2-3 years. But the same would hold true with just about any other coach out there. Urban I could see doing it in a couple years, maybe Saban. Bottom line though, we don't know how Golden has left the program. Seems to be in shambles. Maybe worse. I do know this, you won't have a team or staff full of gossipy *****es like we've had the past 5 years.

Seems to be in shambles? They're 8-4 genius. Trying to create Butch excuses already I see.

Yes. Our team is soft as ****. We've got an AD who has PUBLICLY stated that we are now going to focus more on football and give it the support it needs. You wonder why top notch coaches aren't beating down the door? There's a reason.

And EL ******* EL at 8-4. You were probably one of those mouth breathers who touted Mario's "success" at FIU with his 8 wins.

8 ******* WINS!!! WOO HOO!!! WE BACK!!! GTFOH

 

[mirednmediocrity2]

Miami had been on a massive winning streak and had clearly been the top team in the country for awhile.

This is what Miami fans were used to (even though we had lost the past 3 bowl games under Erickson).

Butch inherited a team that wasn't terribly talented, but most fans may not have been aware of the holes that existed.

The Pell Grant scandal created a massive issue and a loss of a lot of scholarships.

However, Miami fans wanted the job to get done regardless of these rather large obstacles.

The Canes didn't do well the first few years under Butch and in.....maybe 1997 had a losing season, 5-6. This was the first losing season since the 70s, I think....

That was a major shock to what Canes fans were used to.

That has a lot to do with the early negative sentiment with Butch.

By the end of his tenure, it was obvious that he knew what he was doing....A couple years after that, everyone understand that Butch was really, really good at evaluation and development of players...

From what I recall, that was the long and short of it....

I'm sure this has been covered at some point, so be gentle. But I'm not that familiar with the real history...

What was the deal last time around that led to flying the "Fire Butch Davis" banner?

I'm trying to understand what the fan sentiment was like, as well as the country/media's perspective. And curious how that situation compares to the recent "Fire Al Golden" movement. Did it seem like a small crowd didn't want him or was it overwhelming like with Al?

Really, I'm looking for some in-depth thoughts from peeps who followed closely back at that time (I was a mere young'n). Just curious. I don't have a good point of reference for that stuff, except for surface-level commentary. It's certainly an interesting and relatively rare circumstance, I think, to want a guy back so badly who was at one point apparently being run out of town.

And for the record, I'm good with Butch coming back if that's the decision.

Remember that banner. That was really unfair and I thought so at that time. Davis had so little to work with then. Fact is, he did very well despite the sanctions for all but one year when they hit hard enough (lack of good players and any depth) to cause a losing, miserable season. That's why I wanted him to have another chance, but these tightasses on this damned Board are not going to let that happen. They will hire a hack like Greg Schiano (Why this guy keeps getting interviews for HC amazes me. Good DC and that's it.) before they let Butch in the door again.

 

[Osirus96]

Butch had no depth to speak of at all. Imo it's the reason he lost as many games as his teams did his first couple of years. Say what you want though the man is a genius for finding and developing talent. Look at his years at unc had the most players invited to the combine

 

[Big Sky Cane]

We went to four straight BCS bowls, winning three. And it was all because of Butch. How soon we forget.

He's also responsible for losing to inferior teams, and quitting on Miami 1 week before NSD. How soon you forget. Works both ways.

Yeah, his first tenure as a head coach he coRched up a **** load of games. But the fact that 5 of the top 30 most talented teams of all time are directly attributed to him gives him a LOT of leeway IMO. Additionally, he was on staff for two more. Those 7 teams are the only ones from Miami, I might add.

Spoiler

View attachment 34052

Do I think he's a slam dunk? NO. Do I have concerns? **** yeah. Do you know who our AD is? With that in mind, getting Butch would be a ******* coup. I'm under no illusion that with Butch we're on track to win a title in 2-3 years. But the same would hold true with just about any other coach out there. Urban I could see doing it in a couple years, maybe Saban. Bottom line though, we don't know how Golden has left the program. Seems to be in shambles. Maybe worse. I do know this, you won't have a team or staff full of gossipy *****es like we've had the past 5 years.

Seems to be in shambles? They're 8-4 genius. Trying to create Butch excuses already I see.

Yes. Our team is soft as ****. We've got an AD who has PUBLICLY stated that we are now going to focus more on football and give it the support it needs. You wonder why top notch coaches aren't beating down the door? There's a reason.

And EL ******* EL at 8-4. You were probably one of those mouth breathers who touted Mario's "success" at FIU with his 8 wins.

8 ******* WINS!!! WOO HOO!!! WE BACK!!! GTFOH

No I'm must stating a FACT that any 8 win team isn't "in shambles", ******. We def. need an overhaul on attitude and have some depth issues but this program isn't in shambles....far from it. Typical Butch fanboy trying to lower expectations for his inept gameday coaching ability.