Butch Davis' North Carolina Years

[MIATL]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

No, it's not.

That's like saying Kehoe should coach our OL really well today because of how well the OL played 15 years ago.

What Butch did 15 years ago at Miami is ancient history, the same as what Fulmer did at UT.

What's most relevant is what's most current, IMO.

 

[duke4heisman]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

No, it's not.

That's like saying Kehoe should coach our OL really well today because of how well the OL played 15 years ago.

What Butch did 15 years ago at Miami is ancient history, the same as what Fulmer did at UT.

What's most relevant is what's most current, IMO.

You are DBC status comparing NC to Miami. Butch would rape college football at Miami. PERIOD.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

No, it's not.

That's like saying Kehoe should coach our OL really well today because of how well the OL played 15 years ago.

What Butch did 15 years ago at Miami is ancient history, the same as what Fulmer did at UT.

What's most relevant is what's most current, IMO.

Lol u mad as **** doe


Why

We know u disagree already. The masses say butch is a beast and the 2% say hes not. The resume says otherwise and this discussion goes on and on. Just search umfararcher and read away, nothing u say will change our minds and nothing we say will change yours.

 

[MarshallCane]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

I've been thinking about this a lot... Not sure why it seems people believe that what happened at UNC is what we should expect here at Miami...

Why don't you compare him with what he did before here? Same Guy same school... Like comparing him to Fedora.. Same school right? What's the difference.. The time period? If the time period doesn't matter with Fedora and Butch.. Then why should the time period between Butch and Butch matter..

Donna Shalala herself would be proud of you guys in the anti Butch campaign. It's gotten ridiculous.

And I was at the LSU-UNC game In Atlanta. Butch should've beat that LSU team that night... One of the most exciting comebacks I've seen live..

 

[LuCane]

I'll preface this by saying I have a few candidates ahead of him at this point, but I see him getting stomped on for his work at North Carolina and I think it's a bit unwarranted.

Butch Davis took over a program that John Bunting had successfully turned into one giant tackling dummy.



The 9 seasons at UNC before Butch:

- Average win total 4.7
- They won 8 or more games only ONE time in 9 seasons
- 10 total draft picks selected in the first 3 rounds of the draft
- Just 3 winning seasons
- Average total defense: 74th


Just 4 seasons under Butch Davis:

- Increases the average win total to 7
- He wins 8 or more games 3 times in 4 years, something their program accomplished only once in nearly a decade before
- 13 total draft picks selected in the first 3 rounds of the draft
- 3 straight winning seasons
- Average total defense: 34th


So in his first season at the dumpster fire, Butch wins just 4 games. He then turns around and rattles off three straight 8 win seasons. Of course, in 2010, Butch had his most talented team at UNC ever. A lot of draft picks would come off that roster and this was primed to be his "over-the-hump" season. As we all know, it was completely derailed by suspensions, many of them being starters and future NFL players. He had 5 players dismissed that season, and several suspended. It plagued his entire season.

This was highlighted by 13 players being held out against their opener against an LSU team.

Thirteen North Carolina Tar Heels players won't play vs. LSU Tigers in opener



So, Butch Davis takes over a dumpster dwelling program and quickly gets them to back-to-back 8 win seasons as he builds his roster. More success than they've had in the near decade before his arrival. Once he finally finishes BUTCHING the roster and loading it with talent, primed to make a run, the NCAA destroys their hopes in 2010. This is why I can't rag on him the way many are. Perhaps it's just natural pushback against some of the overzealous Butch supporters? I don't know.

Appreciate your willingness to not give a **** about how you feel and just collect facts on both sides.

The answer you'll get, and what I already received, is that he was apparently loaded with NFL talent during his 4 win season. The reality is that his QB was a Frosh playing for the first time. All of his producing RBs were Frosh. His most productive WR was a true Soph known for his inconsistency. He played some teams close, but I concede that's not enough. And, the team the year before got its 3 wins from Furman, Duke and NC State. All hapless during that year.

None of that saves Butch from what was ultimately a terrible OC hire and having obvious gameday coaching issues. Those are relevant gripes to our situation. He'd need to show who he's bringing in here as an OC and the decision-maker(s) would need to take that into consideration. His gameday coaching, unless he has a wunderkind on his staff, would still make me nervous.

I'd then put that side by side with our other options - whoever those may be. Hopefully, an actual shot at someone like Patterson (maybe he's tired of being stuck). More likely, I'd compare it to what Herman plans to do.

Anyway, the Butch portion of the debate has become stale.

 

[nwFL Griz]

UNC would've beat L$U by 10+ pts if not for the suspensions.

I don't know. The break down of the scoring per quarter tells a different story. Looks like LSU was up 30-10 at the half. Maybe they took their foot off the gas in the second half. How many players were suspended for UNC?

Hopefully it formatted correctly.



LSU (1-0) vs. North Carolina (0-1)
Date: Sep 4,2010 Site: Atlanta, Georgia Stadium: Georgia Dome
Attendance: 68919

Score by Quarters 1 2 3 4 Score
----------------- -- -- -- -- -----
LSU................. 7 23 0 0 - 30
North Carolina...... 0 10 0 14 - 24

LSU absolutely stopped playing in the 2nd half.

Credit to UNC for playing until the end, but the story of that game would have been, "LSU lost that game", not "UNC won that game", IMO.

This is a complete lie. LSU did not quit playing. UNC made adjustments and started clicking. If there's 5 more minutes in that game, UNC wins.

 

[MIATL]

UNC would've beat L$U by 10+ pts if not for the suspensions.

I don't know. The break down of the scoring per quarter tells a different story. Looks like LSU was up 30-10 at the half. Maybe they took their foot off the gas in the second half. How many players were suspended for UNC?

Hopefully it formatted correctly.



LSU (1-0) vs. North Carolina (0-1)
Date: Sep 4,2010 Site: Atlanta, Georgia Stadium: Georgia Dome
Attendance: 68919

Score by Quarters 1 2 3 4 Score
----------------- -- -- -- -- -----
LSU................. 7 23 0 0 - 30
North Carolina...... 0 10 0 14 - 24

LSU absolutely stopped playing in the 2nd half.

Credit to UNC for playing until the end, but the story of that game would have been, "LSU lost that game", not "UNC won that game", IMO.

This is a complete lie. LSU did not quit playing. UNC made adjustments and started clicking. If there's 5 more minutes in that game, UNC wins.

You're right. They didn't "stop playing" ... They "stopped playing well".

LSU vs. North Carolina - Game Recap - September 4, 2010 - ESPN

LSU appeared headed for an easy win after scoring 23 straight points over the final 8:06 of the first half. But the Tigers nearly let it slip away, which would have been a devastating blow to coach Les Miles and a program that's trying to show it's still a powerhouse in the Southeastern Conference.

Three years removed from a national championship, LSU has lost eight SEC games over the last two seasons and watched Florida and Alabama claim the dominant roles.

"We won a football game tonight in very sloppy fashion," Miles said. "If we just play efficient football, this game is not even close. We've got to tie up some loose ends right now."

Trying to run out the clock, Stevan Ridley fumbled and the Tar Heels recovered, getting one more shot to pull it out.

"We were hitting on all cylinders in the first half," Jefferson said. "In the second, we made a lot of mistakes and had a lot of penalties."

Miles did what Miles does ... Went into a shell, and tried to run the clock out.

As I said, credit to UNC for not quitting. But if LSU would have lost that game after being up 20 at the half, the story would have been about them blowing it, not UNC winning it, IMO.

 

[MIATL]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

No, it's not.

That's like saying Kehoe should coach our OL really well today because of how well the OL played 15 years ago.

What Butch did 15 years ago at Miami is ancient history, the same as what Fulmer did at UT.

What's most relevant is what's most current, IMO.

You are DBC status comparing NC to Miami. Butch would rape college football at Miami. PERIOD.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I doubt we'll find out if your opinion is accurate, but you're entitled to it. LOL

 

[MIATL]

Good post. And while the North Carolina years are relevant, what he did at Miami is much more relevant to what he would do at Miami.

No, it's not.

That's like saying Kehoe should coach our OL really well today because of how well the OL played 15 years ago.

What Butch did 15 years ago at Miami is ancient history, the same as what Fulmer did at UT.

What's most relevant is what's most current, IMO.

Lol u mad as **** doe


Why

We know u disagree already. The masses say butch is a beast and the 2% say hes not. The resume says otherwise and this discussion goes on and on. Just search umfararcher and read away, nothing u say will change our minds and nothing we say will change yours.

LOL

I'm not mad.

We all want the best for Miami. At least, I think we do??

If Butch gets hired and wins, I'll be happy. If Butch doesn't get hired, and someone else comes in and wins, I'm guessing the BBB crowd will be happy.

These message board debates just kill time until we can be excited about the on-field product, again.

And when that happens, we'll all be united behind the same coach.

 

[kendallcanes]

Give the man a 3 year contract. He has already been here and done well. He can recruit and develop like the best. There is less risk with his hire compared to anyone else and his upside is building the greatest team ever assembled.

He's has stockpiled NFL talent with us in the late 90s. He did it again at UNC in the 2000s. He will do it again with us in the 2010s. Just hire the man and let him start recruiting.

 

[WhatTheHell]

I'll preface this by saying I have a few candidates ahead of him at this point, but I see him getting stomped on for his work at North Carolina and I think it's a bit unwarranted.

Butch Davis took over a program that John Bunting had successfully turned into one giant tackling dummy.



The 9 seasons at UNC before Butch:

- Average win total 4.7
- They won 8 or more games only ONE time in 9 seasons
- 10 total draft picks selected in the first 3 rounds of the draft
- Just 3 winning seasons
- Average total defense: 74th


Just 4 seasons under Butch Davis:

- Increases the average win total to 7
- He wins 8 or more games 3 times in 4 years, something their program accomplished only once in nearly a decade before
- 13 total draft picks selected in the first 3 rounds of the draft
- 3 straight winning seasons
- Average total defense: 34th


So in his first season at the dumpster fire, Butch wins just 4 games. He then turns around and rattles off three straight 8 win seasons. Of course, in 2010, Butch had his most talented team at UNC ever. A lot of draft picks would come off that roster and this was primed to be his "over-the-hump" season. As we all know, it was completely derailed by suspensions, many of them being starters and future NFL players. He had 5 players dismissed that season, and several suspended. It plagued his entire season.

This was highlighted by 13 players being held out against their opener against an LSU team.

Thirteen North Carolina Tar Heels players won't play vs. LSU Tigers in opener



So, Butch Davis takes over a dumpster dwelling program and quickly gets them to back-to-back 8 win seasons as he builds his roster. More success than they've had in the near decade before his arrival. Once he finally finishes BUTCHING the roster and loading it with talent, primed to make a run, the NCAA destroys their hopes in 2010. This is why I can't rag on him the way many are. Perhaps it's just natural pushback against some of the overzealous Butch supporters? I don't know.

None of that saves Butch from what was ultimately a terrible OC hire

UNC total offense ranking under Butch:

2007 - 105th
2008 - 92nd
2009 - 108th
2010 - 51st


Regular old horror show. I agree that evaluating who he wants to bring in as his OC would be key. If Dorsey becomes as good of a coordinator as I think he will, we might be cookin', but the Shoop Era casts a dark shadow over things for Butch's offensive vision.

 

[FullyERicht]

UNC would've beat L$U by 10+ pts if not for the suspensions.

Ah yes my favorite game....the "imagine what Butch could have done" game.

 

[FullyERicht]

UNC would've beat L$U by 10+ pts if not for the suspensions.

I dont know about this one..but it would have been **** close. That UNC defense was primed to be the best defense in the country. (Marvin Austin, Robert Quinn, Bruce Carter, Quan Stivadent, they also had a DB that was big time too)

I know Butch shakes his head at what could have been.

Miami had as many NFL players on their team last year. Have we not figured out yet that you don't get wins based on how many kids get drafted? And outside of Robert Quinn none of those guys have been great in NFL anyway.

 

[deleted3746]

What's the excuse for Butch being 0-4 vs Tom O'Brien at UNC?

What's the excuse for keeping Shoop around?

What's the excuse for never winning more than 4 ACC games in a season?

 

[FullyERicht]

Oh and I don't want to hear about how it was unfair b/c his best players got suspended. His best players were there bc UNC gave them illegal benefits. Without John Blake and free trips and cash and agents, none of those players would have been there anyway.

 

[FullyERicht]

Give the man a 3 year contract. He has already been here and done well. He can recruit and develop like the best. There is less risk with his hire compared to anyone else and his upside is building the greatest team ever assembled.

He's has stockpiled NFL talent with us in the late 90s. He did it again at UNC in the 2000s. He will do it again with us in the 2010s. Just hire the man and let him start recruiting.

Why exactly do we need to recruit and develop? We have the 2nd most players in the NFL. Clearly, Miami is not a place that is lacking in NFL prospects. It never has and never will be. Why can't people see this??

 

[WhatTheHell]

WhatTheHell, who are your top choices for the job?

1. Mike Gundy
2. Dan Mullen
3. Butch Davis/Tom Herman - keep flipping back on forth on this


I end my list here because Butch is ours if we offer.

 

[MIATL]

WhatTheHell, who are your top choices for the job?

1. Mike Gundy
2. Dan Mullen
3. Butch Davis/Tom Herman - keep flipping back on forth on this


I end my list here because Butch is ours if we offer.

Love your list.

Though I'd probably take Mullen over Gundy because of the Florida recruiting base.

But Gundy, Mullen, and Herman are really legit options.

 

[FullyERicht]

WhatTheHell, who are your top choices for the job?

1. Mike Gundy
2. Dan Mullen
3. Butch Davis/Tom Herman - keep flipping back on forth on this


I end my list here because Butch is ours if we offer.

I like that list a lot. It's really hard to say what order. Maybe Herman 1, Gundy 2, Mullen 3.

I still have my dreams of reaching even higher. But thats a great list WTH

 

[WhatTheHell]

WhatTheHell, who are your top choices for the job?

1. Mike Gundy
2. Dan Mullen
3. Butch Davis/Tom Herman - keep flipping back on forth on this


I end my list here because Butch is ours if we offer.

I like that list a lot. It's really hard to say what order. Maybe Herman 1, Gundy 2, Mullen 3.

I still have my dreams of reaching even higher. But thats a great list WTH

I do, too.

This list assumes we've already spent hours pitching guys like Gary Patterson, Mark Dantonio, Chip Kelly, Les Miles (if he's free) etc. After we've made the effort on more accomplished guys, I move on to this list of 4 I feel are a combination of realistic and talented. I don't even want to bother with other names I've heard because I have Butch over them, and if you make it down to Butch on your call list, the search will end there.