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Bryan Pata case update - upcoming bond hearing for Jones

TheOriginalCane said:
Not sure that the actual gun was ever recovered, which is a big problem when a case is slow to develop. Plenty of time for a person to dispose of the murder weapon.
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Don't even have to dispose of it if it is a semi auto pistol. You can swap the barrel and ejector easily ... and those are two things they check for a "ballistics match". Ejector scratches on casings and grooves on the bullet. You just have to know how to strip and reassemble the pistol.
 
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Rickd said:
Don't even have to dispose of it if it is a semi auto pistol. You can swap the barrel and ejector easily ... and those are two things they check for a "ballistics match". Ejector scratches on casings and grooves on the bullet. You just have to know how to strip and reassemble the pistol.
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Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that or going that deep into it, I just had "getting rid of the weapon" on the brain due to the OJ comments, and also remembering the Marlin Barnes murder. With Marlin, he was beaten with the shotgun, he wasn't actually shot, and the guy tried to toss the damaged gun into a canal or something. That was a pretty easy "match" to make once they recovered the gun.
 
Unless someone comes forward with direct knowledge of Jones killing Pata a conviction isn't happening.
 
KrazyCane said:
If he gets off I hope he files a defamation lawsuit against ESPN
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Yeah...because that's how stuff works...

Whatever happens in the criminal trial, and whatever the result based on the higher standard needed to convict, will have no bearing on any "defamation" lawsuit. And there will be no defamation lawsuit.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Yeah...because that's how stuff works...

Whatever happens in the criminal trial, and whatever the result based on the higher standard needed to convict, will have no bearing on any "defamation" lawsuit. And there will be no defamation lawsuit.
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Why wouldn’t it?
 
sactowncane said:
How was he deflamed?

Did the ESPN article specifically say he killed Pata? From what I remember that article outlined the evidence against him and detailed why the police believe he is the killer.
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This video highlights evidence but also implies that he’s the killer through the national media before having his day in court… his reputation is ruined. He should sue both ESPN and the Miami police department.

 
KrazyCane said:
Why wouldn’t it?
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Because a criminal court case is not a civil case.

Because the rules surrounding evidence admitted in criminal court is not the same as civil court (there was evidence allowed in OJ's civil court case that was not allowed into evidence in the OJ criminal court case).

Because the burden of proof is different in civil and criminal court cases.

In fact, a person could be found "not guilty" in a criminal court case, simply due to "jury nullification" (commonly describing a situation where a jury returns a not-guilty verdict despite overwhelming evidence supporting conviction), but the criminal court "not guilty" verdict is NOT the same as "the defendent is INNOCENT".

A jury cannot "clear" Rashaun Jones of murder. The only thing a jury can say is that they find Rashaun Jones "not guilty". And a "not guilty" verdict is not a verdict which would support or NOT support a defamation case.

Look, I may not agree with a lot of your posts, but this is a HUGE and IMPORTANT distinction. Too many people on this board happen to think that CRIMINAL court proceedings are somehow the end-all/be-all of whether a person did something. BUT IT'S NOT. It's just the finding on criminal liability, which could be found (or not found) for a variety of reasons, and not just because "he did it" or "he didn't do it".

Never forget...while OJ got a "not guilty" verdict in criminal court, he was found RESPONSIBLE for the murder in civil court.

So, yes, a court proceeding determined that OJ killed Nicole and Ron. Not a CRIMINAL court, but still...
 
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KrazyCane said:
This video highlights evidence but also implies that he’s the killer through the national media before having his day in court… his reputation is ruined. He should sue both ESPN and the Miami police department.

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Go ahead and file a lawsuit on Rashaun Jones' behalf.

At the top of the page, write "Reputation ruined". Tell me how far that gets you.

I'm curious, even though I know the answer already.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Please stop this.

Neither of those cases were based "solely" on circumstantial evidence. Furthermore, both of those cases involved "alibis" that were completely bogus. Has anyone ever located the fake Hispanic nanny with whom Casey Anthony entrusted her child? Has OJ ever searched for, let alone CAUGHT, the "real killers"?

The telling part of your analysis is that you qualify it by saying "high profile murder case". In essence, you are acknowledging that "normal" killers, who do not have overpaid dream teams, can be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, which says more about legal machinations than it does the "quality" of evidence (and/or the use and persuasiveness of circumstantial evidence).

As for "the state botched the investigation", that is just a blanket excuse when the killer goes free, and ignores the differential in the facts of the case. With OJ, yes, police were on the scene very rapidly, and they DID mishandle some of the evidence. But OJ also flew to another city, which complicated the ability to question him immediately, as well as the search for the murder weapon. In the Casey Anthony case, her daughter was not reported missing for THIRTY-ONE days. There is a succesful TV series that documents murder investigations called The First 48, because most murder cases are solved within the first 48 hours. After that...the collection of evidence becomes much more challenging.
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Idk what to tell ya. You can write all the words you want. Doesn't make you right or me wrong. Those are my thoughts and my opinions. Peace
 
CaneSince4Ever said:
That ruling did nothing though, OJ still collects all of His NFL pension, sad.
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It didn't "do nothing". The families have collected quite a bit of money, and the verdict likely led to OJ's eventual incarceration. In order to try to thwart the payment of money to the families, OJ transferred the "possession" of much of his memorabilia to friends. Then when OJ found out that one of his friends was selling some of his stuff, that's when he went to the hotel to do that fake-gangsta robbery.

Without the civil verdict, OJ probably never goes off the deep end over his memorabilia.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Wrong. The cell phone triangulation directly rebuts his claim of being at home that evening. It would be a circumstantial evidence thing if they were trying to establish something, such as "hey we are trying to prove you were here at X location", but it is a powerful piece of rebuttal evidence to a 15-year-long story as to where Jones was at the time the crime was committed (i.e., "you said you were at X location, but this evidence says that you were not, in fact, at that location").

As for the eyewitness testimony, sure. But, again, it is ALSO rebuttal of a long-standing "alibi" story. I don't think anyone has ever disputed the fact that there are no eyewitnesses to the actual crime itself. However, multiple pieces of evidence that contradict a 15-year old story about how he could not possibly have been at the scene of the crime? That is the type of stuff that can flip a jury to guilty. Not always, but it has been known to happen.

And I don't care if a lawyer can "paint reasonable doubt", the jury has to conclude that there is reasonable doubt. Some do, some don't. Lots of defense attorneys like to claim that they established reasonable doubt, but they don't unless the jury agrees. The jury, in and of itself, is very difficult to predict unless you've been in the courtroom during voir dire and the case itself, to evaluate and predict how the jury is reacting to certain evidence and arguments.

Non-lawyers often tend to make too much of words like "circumstantial" and "hearsay" and "reasonable doubt". Both circumstantial evidence and hearsay evidence are valid forms of evidence, and both have there inherent challenges and limitations. Plenty of people have been convicted based solely on circumstantial and/or hearsay evidence. This isn't Perry Mason, where a direct eyewitness appears at the last minute, or the "real killer" breaks down and confesses on the stand.
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Forensics must be much stronger for the State. It is insane how more advanced the technology has become and pieces that were impossible to detech are now possible. We shall see. We need closure for his family.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
It didn't "do nothing". The families have collected quite a bit of money, and the verdict likely led to OJ's eventual incarceration. In order to try to thwart the payment of money to the families, OJ transferred the "possession" of much of his memorabilia to friends. Then when OJ found out that one of his friends was selling some of his stuff, that's when he went to the hotel to do that fake-gangsta robbery.

Without the civil verdict, OJ probably never goes off the deep end over his memorabilia.
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They may have collected on proceeds from His memorabilia, but they can't touch His $25K a month pension from the NFL & SAG...and because of our homestead exemption laws they can't touch His house in Florida. OJ's alright.
 
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CANEMC said:
www.espn.com

Witness in 2006 Miami murder case found alive

It's unclear how the revelation about witness Paul Conner will affect the murder trial of Rashaun Jones, currently set to start Oct. 6.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Saw this earlier today. I had Professor Conner when I was at UM.

The whole thing is so sad. Assuming Jones really committed the murder, I don’t know how they actually get a conviction at this point. I just feel awful for the Pata family.
 
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