Bro ball needs more praise

[1mg of Epi]

It has absolutely nothing to do with how we play, or pace. We had 5 possessions in the first half. First was a gorgeous touchdown drive. Second got to 1st and 10 on the UiF 21, and we shot ourselves in the foot with 2 presnap penalties on back to back plays, so we got 3. Third drive we got to their 41 and stalled, so we pinned them at their 8 after a punt. 4th was a three and out (admittedly not great). Fifth we got down to First and goal at their 6, shot ourselves in the foot again with a presnap penalty, and kicked a FG. 3 scoring drives out of 5.

What's inexcusable is the poor execution, not "the way we play". We played very sloppily on offense overall, several presnap penalties, drops, guys not blocking their man, Beck was all over the place....and we won the game convincingly.

This is exactly how this team wants to play, and it's smart. You're an absolute wagon on both lines, just squeeze the life out of people over the course of 60 minutes, don't beat yourself, and you'll be fine.

The penalties had an outsized impact on the game exactly because they purposefully limit the opportunities they have to score. There will always be penalties here, poor execution there or a defense just making a play now and then… I question the wisdom of compounding those things by taking your playmakers out of the equation.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

The penalties had an outsized impact on the game exactly because they purposefully limit the opportunities they have to score. There will always be penalties here, poor execution there or a defense just making a play now and then… I question the wisdom of compounding those things by taking your playmakers out of the equation.

We didn't take our playmakers out of the equation.

Mark Fletcher is a playmaker, he had 24 carries.

Marty Brown is a playmaker, he had 22 opportunities (18 carries and 4 catches)

Elija Lofton is a playmaker, he had 4 catches.

Malachi Toney is a playmaker, he had 4 catches.

CJ Daniels is a playmaker, he had 4 catches and he had a ball hit him right in both hands for an easy first-down inside the gata 30 that he dropped.

Our quarterback was off. The ball was wet. We were playing one of the most handicapped offenses I've ever seen. If we don't have the worst call I've seen in the sport this year, we are winning 20-0 after 35 minutes of football.

 

[CaneLife93]

It has absolutely nothing to do with how we play, or pace. We had 5 possessions in the first half. First was a gorgeous touchdown drive. Second got to 1st and 10 on the UiF 21, and we shot ourselves in the foot with 2 presnap penalties on back to back plays, so we got 3. Third drive we got to their 41 and stalled, so we pinned them at their 8 after a punt. 4th was a three and out (admittedly not great). Fifth we got down to First and goal at their 6, shot ourselves in the foot again with a presnap penalty, and kicked a FG. 3 scoring drives out of 5.

What's inexcusable is the poor execution, not "the way we play". We played very sloppily on offense overall, several presnap penalties, drops, guys not blocking their man, Beck was all over the place....and we won the game convincingly.

This is exactly how this team wants to play, and it's smart. You're an absolute wagon on both lines, just squeeze the life out of people over the course of 60 minutes, don't beat yourself, and you'll be fine.

Very much agreed.

Would you argue against going for it on the plus side of the field when in 4 and short situations? Because that and the penalties are what drove me nuts (pause). I would trust our RB's and OL to get an extra yard or two against pretty much any DL in the country (full homer). That extends drives and increases the likelihood of scoring (3 or 6). You also continue to beat their defense into oblivion.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Very much agreed.

Would you argue against going for it on the plus side of the field when in 4 and short situations? Because that and the penalties are what drove me nuts (pause). I would trust our RB's and OL to get an extra yard or two against pretty much any DL in the country (full homer). That extends drives and increases the likelihood of scoring (3 or 6). You also continue to beat their defense into oblivion.

Normally, I'd have disagreed with those calls. I said it in one of the threads after the game. But again, in that particular game, I didn't have an issue with it. Again, the only way that team is beating you is if you gift it opportunities. There is simply no way that pathetic offense is beating you if you continually make it start at their 20, or inside. So, in a rain game, that we were winning, facing that trainwreck of an offense, I was fine with it.

If we do that against FSU, for example, and the score is like 24-20 in the 3rd quarter and they're moving the ball, I'll go nuts. But against that team, I was fine with the decisions. That offense is pathetic, we knew it coming in and the first drive of the game they literally went backwards on 3 straight plays. The only way that team scores enough to beat you is if you turn the ball over and give them short fields. ****, we threw a pick and gave them the ball at midfield, and they still couldn't score. They had the 1 long drive, that was it.

We obviously need to cover the kicks better, though. Both touchbacks were excellent punts, if you're going to punt from the 41, you gotta get down and cover it.

But we were already up 10-0, their offense was doing NOTHING, and we punted from the 41 in the 2nd quarter. We pinned them at the 8, I'm totally fine with that. They ran 3 plays for 2 yards and punted it right back.

Next possession we punt from the 42. Again, gotta cover it, but we don't, touchback. If we do, and pin them deep again, it looks great.

The last one was 4th and 4 from the 39, I believe. This was probably my "least favorite" decision, but again, it was 13-0, and they had done literally nothing to that point. I think if you can pin them inside the 10, it's a win. Usually I'd like to see us be much more aggressive, and to Mario's credit, last year he was. WAY more than his Oregon days. But I think, again, that's taking everything into account. We couldn't stop a nosebleed last year. A punt was basically giving the other team 7 points. This year, he's trusting his defense, especially when you're playing an offense that bad. The Gator offense is ******* awful.

 

[DTP]

This worked pretty well for Saban.

Until it didn’t. Clemson exposed his teams with a no huddle offense and elite quarterback play and he changed his whole offensive philosophy. They went from run heavy teams with game manager quarterbacks to high scoring offenses with first round picks throwing to Heisman winners.

 

[DeanCane]

Until it didn’t. Clemson exposed his teams with a no huddle offense and elite quarterback play and he changed his whole offensive philosophy. They went from run heavy teams with game manager quarterbacks to high scoring offenses with first round picks throwing to Heisman winners.

That was before they changed the clock rules and shortened the game

 

[DTP]

That was before they changed the clock rules and shortened the game

Since the rule change, teams average 2.5 fewer plays per game and game times are actually longer

 

[hoops156]

running the ball was the move all night. they couldnt stop us on the ground. our drives only really stalled when we decided to really air it out (the one 4th quarter drive that ate a single min off the clock right before the drive we had to seal the game could have been a killer).

 

[TaylorWalls]

Until it didn’t. Clemson exposed his teams with a no huddle offense and elite quarterback play and he changed his whole offensive philosophy. They went from run heavy teams with game manager quarterbacks to high scoring offenses with first round picks throwing to Heisman winners.

Plenty of teams have high scoring offenses and still lose games. The difference for Alabama was the "first round picks throwing to Heisman winners" part. That's not something we can just try to replicate.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Until it didn’t. Clemson exposed his teams with a no huddle offense and elite quarterback play and he changed his whole offensive philosophy. They went from run heavy teams with game manager quarterbacks to high scoring offenses with first round picks throwing to Heisman winners.

You really trying to argue that wasn't still bro ball? That was still trench warfare and they didn't go fast. Our model currently is actually more similar to Georgia with Monken. We don't have to play fast, that fad has faded the last few years. Leech didn't run a hurry up, tho faster than our pace. This isn't 2010 anymore. I love the fact our offense can control the ball and let our dominant DL rest. That's more important than more possessions and more reps for the 2nd unit DL.

 

[hoops156]

Since the rule change, teams average 2.5 fewer plays per game and game times are actually longer

the michigan style offense can work if youre elite on D where you never really find yourself losing. the moment you fall behind, it becomes tough to continue esp if you need a quick score late.

we need some more explosiveness on the offensive side (some quick hitters) to go along with the elite rush attack we have right now. hoping trader can see the field again and the addition of lyle adds for those plays.

 

[TaylorWalls]

running the ball was the move all night. they couldnt stop us on the ground. our drives only really stalled when we decided to really air it out (the one 4th quarter drive that ate a single min off the clock right before the drive we had to seal the game could have been a killer).

This is what I couldn't understand about the Sunday morning complaining. People were whining that we went into a shell with MarioBall and got too conservative. The reality is the opposite.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Just so we're all on the same page here, in 2024 we averaged 70.9 plays per game.

In 2025, we are averaging 70.6 plays per game.

The pace wasn't an issue last year, correct?

The difference is, we averaged 38.0 pass attempts per game last year. This year, we are averaging 30. Why? Because the defense is significantly better. I'd still like to see that number come up a little, and I think it will if/when we run into better offenses. But we blew out USF, UiF had the worst offense I've ever seen, and ND we were playing a freshman QB in his first game.

FSU, Louisville, SMU....I think we'll probably have a little more respect for those offenses and you'll see a little more of what you did last year. We'll see.

 

[hoops156]

This is what I couldn't understand about the Sunday morning complaining. People were whining that we went into a shell with MarioBall and got too conservative. The reality is the opposite.

against ND, the conservative approach was a big issue. our offense essentially died out in the second half of the game and we rarely even aired it out when Beck was having a good game and we were making plays in the pass game. it nearly cost us the game and it was obvious.

against UF, the ball was soaked and Beck was off all night on his throws. also, from the very first drive, we saw we could push in their OL the entire way down the field. with a wet ball, field, i have zero complaints. you can win in diff ways and i have no issue with it.

 

[STG]

Not that we don't know this, but the overwhelming issue with "bro ball" or attempting to be Michigan of 2023 is that style of ball literally leaves you with no room for error.

Whether that be not scoring effectively in the red zone, turnovers and penalties. You basically have to play perfect ball every game, or you can easily find yourself in a dog fight when you are dominating or taking an L when you shouldn't.

Unfortunately, Mario's teams from Oregon to here have never been disiciplined. They are always heavily penalized. For comparison, Michigan was the least penalized teams in 2023 with 3 per game, while we currently sit at 87th with 7 per game. Last year we were 98th with 6.5 per game, in 2023 we were 80th with 6.2. Mario's last year at Oregon they were 111th with 7.5 per game.

We definitely can impose our will on opponents without going into a shell or being to conservative at times. We have seen that beyond the UF game.

 

[DTP]

You really trying to argue that wasn't still bro ball? That was still trench warfare and they didn't go fast. Our model currently is actually more similar to Georgia with Monken. We don't have to play fast, that fad has faded the last few years. Leech didn't run a hurry up, tho faster than our pace. This isn't 2010 anymore. I love the fact our offense can control the ball and let our dominant DL rest. That's more important than more possessions and more reps for the 2nd unit DL.

Putting the quarterback in shotgun with three or four wide receivers is the exact opposite of “bro ball”. I’m finding it odd that you believe the Alabama offenses with Tua, Jones and Bryce Young are the same thing as the ones with Greg McElroy and AJ McCaron.

 

[DTP]

the michigan style offense can work if youre elite on D where you never really find yourself losing. the moment you fall behind, it becomes tough to continue esp if you need a quick score late.

we need some more explosiveness on the offensive side (some quick hitters) to go along with the elite rush attack we have right now. hoping trader can see the field again and the addition of lyle adds for those plays.

I’m all about increasing your odds of winning every game. There’s a million different ways to win games. I just prefer the ones that aren’t extreme outliers that require so many other factors to break your way. It’s great that you can totally shut down an opponent to where you only need 13 points to win a game but that doesn’t mean I want to always have to rely on my defense completely shutting down every team. I’d prefer we try to score as much as possible and if the defense pitches a shutout, great.

I just don’t want to lose a game we dominate because some fluke fumble return for a touchdown.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Putting the quarterback in shotgun with three or four wide receivers is the exact opposite of “bro ball”. I’m finding it odd that you believe the Alabama offenses with Tua, Jones and Bryce Young are the same thing as the ones with Greg McElroy and AJ McCaron.

Good because I didn't say nor imply that. Saban could however always play bro ball.

 

[hoops156]

I’m all about increasing your odds of winning every game. There’s a million different ways to win games. I just prefer the ones that aren’t extreme outliers that require so many other factors to break your way. It’s great that you can totally shut down an opponent to where you only need 13 points to win a game but that doesn’t mean I want to always have to rely on my defense completely shutting down every team. I’d prefer we try to score as much as possible and if the defense pitches a shutout, great.

I just don’t want to lose a game we dominate because some fluke fumble return for a touchdown.

nearly happened twice so far (the first one due to conservativeness and the second one imo was the lack of a passing offense).

 

[TaylorWalls]

I’m all about increasing your odds of winning every game. There’s a million different ways to win games. I just prefer the ones that aren’t extreme outliers that require so many other factors to break your way. It’s great that you can totally shut down an opponent to where you only need 13 points to win a game but that doesn’t mean I want to always have to rely on my defense completely shutting down every team. I’d prefer we try to score as much as possible and if the defense pitches a shutout, great.

I just don’t want to lose a game we dominate because some fluke fumble return for a touchdown.

And when you don't have the personnel to score at will, you end up giving the opponent 16 drives instead of 11, and your defense gets fewer breaks as you go 3 and out while running 25 seconds off the clock.

"Score 50 and throw a shutout" is certainly a cutting-edge idea for success, but if you can't pull that off, you have to do what gives you the best chance with your current roster.