Bring him (Mark Stoops) to me!

[Memnon]

With the recent interest in Mark Stoops it begs the question, is Kentucky a better job than Miami as of right now?

The recruiting region is usually one of the main selling points we use to rationalize why a coach would leave their job to come here, but that doesn’t really hold weight IMO because the best players from the state don’t stay home for the most part anyways, especially in South FL. In fact, I would even argue the odds of keeping high ranked 4/5-star talent from the Tri-county home are slimmer than them ultimately leaving, over the last decade + the majority of the best players from South FL did not sign with Miami, so the whole idea of being intrigued by the potential abundant recruiting pool is actually more of a myth we tell ourselves rather than a reality.

So what else is there?

Stoops already makes $4.75mill a year, plus with incentives is set to make upwards of $5,013,600 this season (which is more than what Miami paid Richt & Manny per year) & he signed an extension in 2019 to boost his contract up to $6mill by 2024.

So again, the question becomes is Miami willing to pay Mark Stoops anywhere from $6-8mill per to steal him from Kentucky? Does anything in Miami’s recent history show evidence that the money men would be willing to make a move like that? Then’s there’s the question of has Miami’s Admin & BOT shown that they are willing to spend the kind of capital necessary in order to compete with the top 25 schools in college football? Because even with Kentucky mostly being a middle of the road SEC team & primarily a Basketball school they’ve shown they’ll spend money to help them be a competitive team in the SEC & are at the very least exhausting as many options as they have available to try their best to not simply be steamrolled by the likes of UF & UGA in the SEC East, they obviously know they can’t compete with the Bama overall.

In summation, Kentucky pays him more, allocates more money towards the Football program & supports their program, plays in a better conference that has a better annual TV contract payout & as far as recruiting that’s mostly inconsequential due to the fact the mostly recruit the Midwest & Down South.

So other than the fact that Stoops once coached here for 3 years & hasn’t been back in 18 years, what legit reasons would he have to come here? Mark coached longer at AZ with his brother Mike & has been at Kentucky for 8 years now, what’s his deep connection to Miami that would compel him to leave?

 

[ddann]

With the recent interest in Mark Stoops it begs the question, is Kentucky a better job than Miami as of right now?

The recruiting region is usually one of the main selling points we use to rationalize why a coach would leave their job to come here, but that doesn’t really hold weight IMO because the best players from the state don’t stay home for the most part anyways, especially in South FL. In fact, I would even argue the odds of keeping high ranked 4/5-star talent from the Tri-county home are slimmer than them ultimately leaving, over the last decade + the majority of the best players from South FL did not sign with Miami, so the whole idea of being intrigued by the potential abundant recruiting pool is actually more of a myth we tell ourselves rather than a reality.

So what else is there?

Stoops already makes $4.75mill a year, plus with incentives is set to make upwards of $5,013,600 this season (which is more than what Miami paid Richt & Manny per year) & he signed an extension in 2019 to boost his contract up to $6mill by 2024.

So again, the question becomes is Miami willing to pay Mark Stoops anywhere from $6-8mill per to steal him from Kentucky? Does anything in Miami’s recent history show evidence that the money men would be willing to make a move like that? Then’s there’s the question of has Miami’s Admin & BOT shown that they are willing to spend the kind of capital necessary in order to compete with the top 25 schools in college football? Because even with Kentucky mostly being a middle of the road SEC team & primarily a Basketball school they’ve shown they’ll spend money to help them be a competitive team in the SEC & are at the very least exhausting as many options as they have available to try their best to not simply be steamrolled by the likes of UF & UGA in the SEC East, they obviously know they can’t compete with the Bama overall.

In summation, Kentucky pays him more, allocates more money towards the Football program & supports their program, plays in a better conference that has a better annual TV contract payout & as far as recruiting that’s mostly inconsequential due to the fact the mostly recruit the Midwest & Down South.

So other than the fact that Stoops once coached here for 3 years & hasn’t been back in 18 years, what legit reasons would he have to come here? Mark coached longer at AZ with his brother Mike & has been at Kentucky for 8 years now, what’s his deep connection to Miami that would compel him to leave?

That’s all well and good, but we all know he’ll never win the SEC there.

He could easily win the ACC at Miami.

 

[Memnon]

That’s all well and good, but we all know he’ll never win the SEC there.

He could easily win the ACC at Miami.

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but my skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

People throw around the word easily a lot here. Right now no one outside of Tuscaloosa and Athens (this year) are winning anything that way.

 

[TemplarCane]

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but my skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

Yep. A overhaul of the athletic department by showing financial commitment and hiring a well-respected AD needs to happen before starting any talk of hiring a HC already in a good spot.

 

[TruCane81]

I’m of the opinion that Manny is probably in over his head at Miami and should be relieved but I don’t think his coaching career will be over. He’s proven to be capable of adapting and changing and learning from failure in the past. He’ll likely land a DC position somewhere and probably parlay that into another head coaching gig somewhere down the line. Miami is just not the place for first time coaches to be cutting their teeth. There’s a lot of trial and error involved with first time guys and when you’re in a place that demands a lot, you don’t have the time to spend “figuring things out”.

Manny will have a very strong run in 10 years or so.

He is in over his head and needs to be euthanized before he destroys himself and this program, but his career is NOT over.

Manny is resilient. That was one of the main things I like about him and was willing to give him 2 or 3 years to see what he had without any final judgments. What happened to him at Texas puts most coaches back in high school. He bounced back and he will bounce back after we fire him.

He needs to be humbled and change his approach on some key elements of leading a team. If he put his ego aside and listens, he can be a solid head coach one day.

He is DONE at Miami. It will only damage all parties involved to stretch this thing out. He needs a reset and so does the program. He was wildly unprepared and there is no excuse for the team to be so unsound fundamentally after all his years here as dc and hc. If he were better preparing the team, people would be more willing to listen about giving him time. His current incompetence as a head coach has made things too toxic, too fast to consider riding it out a few more seasons.

 

[ddann]

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but my skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

You might be right. Only Mark Stoops knows the answer to the incentive question. If the possibility of winning the ACC vs having no shot at winning the SEC is not a motivator for him, then he probably isn’t the right guy for the job anyway.

BTW, welcome back to active posting!

 

[TruCane81]

Mike Stoops was the Arizona HC, not Mark. Kentucky has always been a mid-level SEC team. Not since Bear Bryant and Jerry Claiborne have they been a good team. Stoops is building something at Kentucky!

Saying Kentucky has been mid level in their division is very generous.

They have been awful my entire life and the second worst team in the conference only to Vandy.

 

[DiegoCane]

I remember when I was the champion of Mark Stoops when we hired Richt. I was told he wasn't good bc he wasn't winning the SEC at UK.

 

[Fluffhead]

You still don’t get it.

The investment is going to be huge regardless. The question and program’s gamble is whether he’s the right guy to make it in.

There’s no subtracting coach A’s salary and the risk with coach B is the difference. It’s all him.

I get what you are saying, I just view it differently and think that line is nonsense the school is trying to push to validate keeping Diaz. It’s bull****. The only amount above and beyond that is at risk is what I laid out and even more time.

 

[DiegoCane]

We need a proven winner. No more experiments. I like Stoops, but he's done nothing in his career to show he's able to revitalize Miami.

Good thing you weren't around when UM hired Jimmy Johnson

 

[TemplarCane]

It's funny when people say Miami is different because the expectations are different and Stoops wouldn't meet that expectation. What are the expectations at Miami exactly? On CIS, it's NC's, but for the BOT/AD it's clearly not.

So to try and hold Stoops to some standard that only exists in the minds of dudes on a message board is not reality.

Think about this, if Stoops was the coach this year, we would win the ACC, we would be in the playoffs and depending on the match up, possibly playing in the NC game. Dude is more than capable of winning at Miami.

^^^^
We post as if the BOT demands annual CFP appearances. They would be content with consistent 9-win seasons with the occasional ACC Coastal title, and an ACC title here and there. Win most bowl games, maybe. What they don‘t want is public embarrassment like Golden‘s 58-0 loss to Clemson, or the media lashing from Herbie and ESPN two weeks ago.

 

[Juanka]

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but my skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

I posted about Heman about a week ago. The guy's time at Texas went downhill after Zack Smith. Before that, he did some really good things in UT/UH.

-10 Win season in UT for the first time since 09
-Top 3 classes 2x. That is not easy to do in a state that has the most P5 schools, and everyone recruits in.
-Got 5 guys drafted in 2021. Most since 2015
Some things I listed before as well. Has signature wins 5-0 bowl games, and is an ex HC. No more coordinators for the job, please.

He has since been rumored for the job at USC

Texas Football: Tom Herman tabbed as ‘realistic’ candidate for USC HC job

Ex-Texas football head coach Tom Herman was tabbed as a 'realistic' candidate for the USC Trojans head coaching job post-Clay Helton.

hookemheadlines.com

Hire a firm to do their HW on him for us, and see if he checks out. To me, he checks the boxes.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Could he though?

I mean we’ve only been saying that for the last 17 years since we first joined the ACC & we’ve never done it, granted we’ve had nothing but God awful Corches, but the reality is we still have yet to win it.

But even if for arguments sake he could win it, the question goes right back to what’s his incentive to come here? Is Miami gonna pay him more than Kentucky?

I think Stoops would be a good coach here & would have success, but my skepticism isn’t on him it’s on the program, I’m not convinced Miami would actually do what it takes to get coaches like Stoops or Cristobal here who are basically at better current situations than ours.

IMO, the Miami job is really only attractive to lower level G5 coaches who are looking for a pay raise & increase in profile & for former HC’s looking to rebuild their reputation & get back into P5 coaching like Herman or Freeze. It just doesn’t make a lot of logical sense to me for guys like Cristobal, Stoops, Gundy, Shaw etc.. to leave their current gigs to come down to Miami & risk career suicide.

Sadly I agree. Herbstreits public shaming shined a light on the ****roaches and made them scurry about, but light won't kill them. BOT isn't going anywhere and there will never ever ever ever be a massive restructuring of the BOT. The only hope for fans is that we catch lightning in a bottle again with an exceptional coach.

Stoops is a good coach. Cristobal is a good coach. They would probably build Miami into a respectable team like Richt did with UGA, maybe once every 10 years we make the playoffs and get bounced out in the semis. I don't fault anyone who would be happy with that given the current state of the program.

I would put Herman a notch above most names being bandied about AND he would be much cheaper than anyone else.

It's funny that a lot of the hype with Cristobal came about because he beat #3 OSU this year (and Stoops beating UF got similar hype) . In 2016 at Houston, Herman beat the #3 team TWICE IN THE SAME SEASON (Oklahoma and Louisville). That's a G5 notching wins over two P5s ranked #3. Thats a little more impressive to me than Oregon beating Ohio State or Kentucky beating Florida.

Also in 2015, his Cougs beat 4 top 25 ranked teams including #9 FSU.

 

[Bird4um]

He’s a couple of wins away from being automatically extended another year at close to $5 million.

That’s not a contract anyone in their right mind is leaving to come here.

For some it’s not about the money. They need to prove their D is the biggest in the room. See Saban

 

[TemplarCane]

Sadly I agree. Herbstreits public shaming shined a light on the ****roaches and made them scurry about, but light won't kill them. BOT isn't going anywhere and there will never ever ever ever be a massive restructuring of the BOT. The only hope for fans is that we catch lightning in a bottle again with an exceptional coach.

Stoops is a good coach. Cristobal is a good coach. They would probably build Miami into a respectable team like Richt did with UGA, maybe once every 10 years we make the playoffs and get bounced out in the semis. I don't fault anyone who would be happy with that given the current state of the program.

I would put Herman a notch above most names being bandied about AND he would be much cheaper than anyone else.

It's funny that a lot of the hype with Cristobal came about because he beat #3 OSU this year (and Stoops beating UF got similar hype) . In 2016 at Houston, Herman beat the #3 team TWICE IN THE SAME SEASON (Oklahoma and Louisville). That's a G5 notching wins over two P5s ranked #3. Thats a little more impressive to me than Oregon beating Ohio State or Kentucky beating Florida.

Also in 2015, his Cougs beat 4 top 25 ranked teams including #9 FSU.

Three of his four Top 25 wins in 2015 were from his own conference; Navy (16) , Memphis (25), and Temple (20).

What about Herman’s 4 losses to unranked UConn, Navy, SMU, and Memphis during those two years at Houston? All while Houston was ranked. Not including his first 7-5 season at UT, Herman had two losses to unranked conference teams each of the next three seasons at Texas.

10 losses to unranked teams in 6 seasons, all while ranked.

Sounds familiar.

That aside, I think Herman is a good, not yet great coach. Like Kiffin at USC, the Texas job may have been too big too early. He might prove to be a great one, rehabbing his career in the NFL. Waiting for a chance at another college opportunity or perhaps working on moving up the NFL ladder as QB coach or OC.

I would not complain at all if he were Miami’s next HC.

 

[Go Canes!!]

For some it’s not about the money. They need to prove their D is the biggest in the room. See Saban

Saban makes like $11 million a year and is the highest paid coach in the history of college football.

 

[miamicanephins]

They could but what viable metric indicates he’s worth that kind of gamble?

He ain’t giving up that sweetheart contract without some truly epic guaranteed money.

I don't think there is any metric that one could apply to any coach that Miami could realistically hire that would suggest that they are worth the gamble. They are all a crap shot.

Maybe he's got enough money (haha) and says I want a chance to coach for a NC and Miami being in the ACC gives him a chance.

 

[Juanka]

What about his 4 losses to unranked UConn, Navy, SMU, and Memphis during those two years at Houston? All while Houston was ranked.

That aside, I think Herman is a good, not yet great coach. Like Kiffin at USC, the Texas job may have been too big too early. He might prove to be a great one, rehabbing his career in the NFL. Waiting for a chance at another college opportunity or perhaps working on moving up the NFL ladder as QB coach or OC.

I would not complain at all if he were Miami’s next HC.

UConn fielded a pretty good defense that year. The other L's are bad. Especially losing to Norvell and the Memphis Tigers.
Still more impressive he was able to beat the #3 team twice while in Houston and did so without bringing his own guys being his first year on the job. He just coached them guys up and had them ready to go.
I think every coach has some bad losses. I think he will be a reliable enough coach to get the job done for us in the coastal at the very minimum. He took UH to the conference title and won, and took UT to their first conference title since 09. Imagine the coastal.
The man has also put up great numbers as an OC everywhere he's been.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

What about his 4 losses to unranked UConn, Navy, SMU, and Memphis during those two years at Houston? All while Houston was ranked.

That aside, I think Herman is a good, not yet great coach. Like Kiffin at USC, the Texas job may have been too big too early. He might prove to be a great one, rehabbing his career in the NFL. Waiting for a chance at another college opportunity or perhaps working on moving up the NFL ladder as QB coach or OC.

I would not complain at all if he were Miami’s next HC.

Uconn was the only loss of the season in 2015, and it was by 3 on the road. In 2016, no shame in losing to a 9 win Navy team in Annapolis. Memphis was an 8 win team so not a garbage opponent (also a road loss). SMU was probably his worst loss and again on the road. He did not lose a home game in 2 years.

A brand new coach losing 3 road games over a 2 year span doesn't bother me much (kids can lose focus and I'm sure his players knew he was leaving UH) especially when those were his only regular season losses. What I want to see is can he beat more talented teams and the answer is undoubtedly yes.